help save my passive wick clones!

[dr-dank]

Darn, I hate having to open this. For some reason my attempts at passive wick cloning, the same ones that have worked for years, are giving me grief.

My technique is based on the "world class cloner at wallmart", thread, now using the Popsicle molds with vermiculite and RO water.

Things started going bad a few months back with a rotten smell in the media and long root times or wilted plants/failure. Was tasking over 14 days. I assume too warm but cannot add active chilling.

Temps range from 66-82.

Starting adding h202 to the RO water. Now using 1-2 drops of 29% per gallon. That seems to prevent the smell but now seems the clones are burning up.

I recently added two new strains that I have never cloned, but see similar on the strain I have been growing for a few years now.

My original chamber is rubber made tubs with plexi separator and 2 125W CFLs. I shade the clones with cardboard, something that had worked fine in the past. Fresh air via fish pump and exhaust with active fan based on temp.

After this started a built a clone only chamber with a single led daylight bulb. Similar ventilation design. No plexi separator as taller and low-wattage LED means no real heat. But things are doing much the same there. I added a seedling heat mat that runs at night for a few hours in second chamber but that did not seem to help.

I have tried fresh clonex and also dip n grow. Does not seem to help.

Any ideas?

Thanks

This batch was taken on 8/3. So, 6 days and not looking good at all. The mother plants are ok. No signs of pest or PM. I would like to start with more robust cuts but the space and time factors have forced me to use less than ideal, but still used to have 75% success and now at near 0%.

 

[dr-dank]

bump for some canna love.

 

[window]

Next time you take clones, stick them in any container you have handy, empty soda bottles work great but anything will do. Fill with plain water and put under a low light flouro light. Change the water every two to three days and they will root between 2 to 4 weeks, sometimes even sooner. If you can cover the container to stop light getting in, even better.
It's a bit slow but very low maintenance and usually 100% successful.
It's up to you if you wanna use rooting gel/powder but it's not essential.
I've used this method many times over the years and it's never failed.

 

[Mikell]

Swap the vermiculite for perlite? Less water, more air.

I am prejudiced towards vermiculite.

 

[justanotherbozo]

can you take some pics of the new clone chamber?

...also, your problem isn't that the res is too warm, 80 to 82 is optimal, 66 is way too cool.

...i was gonna comment on 2x 125watt cfl's being way overkill but i see you corrected that.

...here is a small cab i built about 5 years ago to house my cloning op and you'll note that the cloners sit on a shelf ABOVE the lights so get only reflected light, more importantly, the lights provide heat to passively warm my reservoirs.

well, it seems sharing pics is more than my phone is willing to do, most because i don't have any of those pics on my phone. ...i'll check my album to see if there are any there.

...maybe this will work.

peace, bozo

 

[dr-dank]

Thanks all. @ bozo, that is an interesting design. Lights below....

I worry perlite will not wick enough. I suppose water clones might have same problems if this is an environment issue such as temp or too much light.

Some pics of new chamber. One concerns is the heat mat comes up the side and that can warm the leaves, more so if touching. But I had it turned off for a while and still saw issues. I try to position so no direct contact.

There is a vent fan under the reflective material but it never runs as the led produces little heat. Intakes at bottom, passive 2 x exhaust. Given it stays so cool I added a fish pump for fresh air injected into bottom.

I put tape on the led bulb and added a dimmer. Now as dim as it can be and still light. I feel with the tape on bottom its reflective light. Its a daylight (5000k) cree led bulb.

 

[dr-dank]

An update. New batch taken on 8/12 using new media, plain RO water, and attempts at temp control are failing on 8/18. 6 days in.

Once again, crispy leaves.

Has to be heat stress or too much light.

They started looking bad a few days ago (see post #6 to see how they were), so I swapped led for low wattage daylight cfl. Light shield on bottom of bulb. Also used reflextix insulation on side where heat mat was exposed, and tried setting the water dish on some Styrofoam to insulate it from hit mat.

None of that helped.

Trying a new bath in original chamber as I am desperate for success.

 

[dr-dank]

An update.

Had some success in original chamber.

The new chamber is being renamed clone killer. I am at wits end as to what is wrong. Could this be off gassing?


The last attempt in new chamber was to use a 2g pail with water and a fish heater set to 80f. This raised the clones up closer to light, so I went back to led and put a shroud over bulb to block most light.

As I pipe air into chamber I opted to let it bubble in the water bucket.

After about a week the bucket is slimy and smells like a fish tank. Worse, the new batch of clones began to burn up in typical fashion for my thread after about 3 days.

Temp monitoring showed no extremes, average about 76.

The main difference between working and killing chambers, as both are space limited, is working has a plexi separator between bulbs and chamber. Sort of like a cool-tube. I figured since new chamber was low wattage I could get away with bulb and plants in same space, and many do, albeit some with bulbs under plants....

Regards

 

[cyat]

Maybe a new container? They can hold mold spores

 

[justanotherbozo]

...i'm guessing your problem is a lack of air flow within that bucket, a constant exchange of fresh air for spent, stale air is essential for success.

...try taking a milk crate and flipping it upside down so you can put your ice tube tray and reservoir on top and then either use a seedling mat or a some other heat source so the reservoir is warmed to the optimal 80- 82 degrees while allowing the cutting vegetation access to open air.

...in my own case when i was first learning the tech i used a small desk lamp sitting inside 2 milk crates stacked together so that the heat from the 23watt bulb warmed my res and the cuttings rooted with nothing but the reflected light from the desk lamp below.

...I'm on my phone so i don't have access to most of my pics or i'd share a photo, it's possible there is a sot in my album but i don't remember so you'd have to go look.

...if you look at the pics i posted above you'll see i used the same passive principles in designing my clonebox cab.

anyway, a milk crate or 2 and a small desk lamp will show whether or not air flow is your problem, ...although off gassing would still be a possibility.

good luck, bozo

 

[mule420]

I agree with bozo, you need more fresh air. Good thread here about air https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112862
Air needs to be exchanged 2 or 3 times a minute or so. You can use the thread to figure out the right number.

You can also look into act or aerated compost tea to fight the root rot or fishy smell in your water. Basically you use microbes to fight the slime and help clones uptake nutes and promote root growth.

 

[dr-dank]

Thanks for the comments guys... I suppose more air could not hurt. It was a small space (23 G trash can), so figured a fish pump running would be enough, along with convective heat flow from bulb on the top.

The way the leaves dry up makes me think too much heat or too much air, but the latter does not seem possible. Something is drying them out... Radiation from bulb being too close?

Will look for the pics of milk crate. But was going for stealth.

Edit: I updated with pics of ending state as I am ditching the new clone chamber in the ice tube cloner thread. What a disaster. Things got way too complicated and never got any better, if not progressively worse. Some basic flaw was never addressed. I believe its environment given same media, cloning gel, and water does work (albeit less than ideally), in original chamber.


Regards