Help, Please :)

[steveoi812]

Hey sproutco or anyone else that could take a look at these pics and tell me what you think I might have going on here...Thanks you guys...

 

[mace_ecam]

i'd say Mg def
whats your pH?
nutes?

 

[steveoi812]

I am using FF grow BIG, pbp grow, and Liquid Karma. I have no idea about the ph. I am going to get some strips today and I'll make a batch of my regular feeding formula and test it. I have been watering with plain water for the past two waterings to try and clear things up. Should I buy some cal-mag today or can a I Make my own from epsoms salts?

 

[steveoi812]

Oh and I am using ff OF soil too...

 

[mace_ecam]

you nutes are low in Mg.

You can use epsom salts, 1/2 teaspoon per gallon (dissolve in hot water water) initially and from then 1/4 per gallon.

 

[sproutco]

I think I would drench with 2 teaspoons epsom salts to a gallon of water. Do this once. This would be 240 ppm magnesium.

You should decide which nutes your going to use.

If you go with the fox farm grow big, the following is a good recipe:
1/8 teaspoon potassium nitrate
1.5 teaspoons grow big 6-4-4
1/4 teaspoon powdered gypsum
1/8 teaspoon epsom salts

This gives you about:
140 n
30 p
135 k
60 ca
25 mg

potassium nitrate is in some stump removers at hardware stores. Check the label. Dexol and greenlight are 2 brands. Epsom salts at the drugstore. Powdered gypsum at good garden centers. Hoffman is a brand of gypsum. You can call or email to find a hoffman retailer near you:
Good Earth, Inc.
Marketing Department
P.O. Box 290
Lancaster, NY 14086
Tel: 716-684-8111
Fax: 716-684-3722
[email protected]

Use this formula at 2/3 strength for seedlings and 1.5 x for alot of growth but watch for burning. Add the epsom and gypsum when needed or every third or fourth fert when dol. lime is doing its job. Potassium nitrate you will always add.

If you go with the pbp grow, you should get the following info off the bottle: net weight, total ml, % of each element like 5% nitrogen, and ml you plan on using. Enter these numbers in the calculator. That link is in my signature below. This will give you ppms.
75-100 ppm nitrogen for seedlings
100 ppm n regular growth
150 ppm n more growth
200 ppm n max growth watch for burning

of course you would have more than just nitrogen in your fert water.

This fert is low in magnesium so you add a little more. Its best to boost both
calcium and magnesium together.

You want the ratio of potassium to calcium to magnesium to be 4:2:1 in the fert water. If you have 150 k then you would want 75 ca and 38 mg.
1/8 teaspoon gypsum gallon of water= 30 ppm ca
1/8 teaspoon epsom salts gallon of water = 15 mg

You would add the extra epsom and gypsum when there is a deficiency or every third or fourth time you fert when dol. lime is doing its job in the soil.

Here is the calculator example. Click on it to enlarge. Once larger, move cursor to bottom right corner of picture and click again to get even bigger.

 

[MynameStitch]

magniseum or iron issues, is it only happening on the top part of the plant and not in the middle or lower?

sproutco has given you the info you need to fix your problem

 

[steveoi812]

magniseum or iron issues, is it only happening on the top part of the plant and not in the middle or lower?

sproutco has given you the info you need to fix your problem

Yes it is actually, the lower part of the plant looks fine. Nice and dark green.


You guys are such a big help, thanks for taking the time to write up all this info you guys. I appreciate it so much as do my plants.

How long does it take to correct this problem of mg def? Will this set me back dramatically? Will my yields be affected?

Once again thanks so very much my friends, you guys are great!!!!!!

 

[mace_ecam]

if its Mg then you should see improvement fast
but if the lower parts are ok, it might be something different
whats the room temps?
how close is the bulb and how many watts?

could be either iron (Fe) or sulphur(S), Epsom salts would fix a sulphur def, too.
Too much phospor(P) will lockout iron, so will a high pH

 

[sproutco]

the lower part of the plant looks fine. Nice and dark green.

The problem I had was in your pictures you can not zoom in and see where the majority of the problem is. Maybe not magnesium if the bottom is ok. Drench with the magnesium. This will not hurt the plant and is probably needed anyway since both the ferts like Mace mentioned were low in it. When the pot has done draining, wait 30 minutes. Pour a slight amount of distilled water on the pot. Just a couple ounces. Catch the runoff on a saucer. Test this ph. You can use ph test strips from the aquarium section of a petstore. Better, go to a make your own beer/wine store and they will have good test strips. Range 4-7 is good. Around 6 is better. Ph high like 6.5+ = this might be iron def. The very newest growth with iron problems will go completely yellow or even white and no veins still green.

You should really be adjusting the ph of your fert water after mixing with an acid or base. Things to use are in my signature "make your own ph up and down". This prevents ph surprises and guessing.

While your out shopping for supplies (distilled water, ph test strips, gypsum, stump remover, epsom salts) pick up some iron. If you go to a local garden center maybe not a chain store (call first) they may carry iron plus other micros in a bottle of liquid. This is better than just iron. Here is an example of safer iron plus. http://www.saferbrand.com/landscape/liqironplusinstruc.htm Pro growers add something like stem every once in a while like at the planting and again 6-8 weeks later. This stands for soluble trace element mix. Really cool stuff. This prevents and cures micronute problems. Check this out...http://www.scottsprohort.com/_documents/tech_sheets/H4078STEM.pdf

cal mag plus also contains micros. You might should investigate that instead of using the epsom and gypsum. This would be good in veg since it has nitrogen. I would not really use it in flower cause you reducing nitrogen. You could use the epsom gypsum then because neither adds nitrogen.

Cal-Mag Plus bottle

Quote:
2-0-0
Two tsp (10ml) will achieve a supplement of:
Nitrogen (N) 52 ppm
Calcium (Ca) 83 ppm
Magnesium (Mg) 31 ppm
Iron (Fe) 2.5 ppm
Guaranteed Minimum Analysis
Total Nitrogen (N) 2.0%
1.94% Nitrate Nitrogen
0.06% Water Soluble Organic Nitrogen
Calcium (Ca) 3.2%
Magnesium (Mg) 1.2%
Iron (Fe) 0.1%
0.1% Chelated Iron
Derived From: Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, and Iron edta

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=34456&page=8&pp=15

You would only need about a teaspoon (5ml) since your ferts contain either magnesium or both calcium and magnesium. Only drawback to this is that this does not contain sulfur. Sulfuric acid (battery acid from the auto parts store) should be your ph down to provide sulfur.

CAL-MAG PLUS ™
A highly beneficial calcium, magnesium, iron and trace minerals, plant nutrient supplement

The Original
CAL-MAG Plus ™ is a custom plant supplement designed to help with calcium, magnesium and iron deficiencies in nutrient fertilizer programs. CAL-MAG Plus ™ serves as a catalyst for the major elements to work in symbiosis with one another to prevent blossom end rot in plants such as tomatoes and peppers and tip burn in lettuce.

CAL-MAG Plus ™ is a highly beneficial plant nutrient supplement designed to correct the inherent problem of calcium, magnesium and iron mineral deficiencies found in most soil fertilizers and some hydroponic nutrient liquid concentrated formulas.

CAL-MAG Plus ™ also contains iron, boron, zinc, manganese, molybdenum, copper, cobalt and iodine, beneficial vitamins, 20 essential amino acids and select botanical plant extracts to help in the production of fruits and vegetables in fruit and flower bearing plants.

http://www.americanagritech.com/product/product_detail.asp?ID=1&pro_id_pk=10

 

[steveoi812]

Thanks so much you guys, sproutco, mace, and stitch. I am going today to get everything I need I'll keep you guys posted as to the results I am having. I hope they pull through...

 

[steveoi812]

Ok you guys, out of curiousity how long might it take for me to see if this stuff is working? I got cal mag + and I laid it on my plants last night...Thanks for saving my baby girls you guys...

 

[steveoi812]

Oh and btw my plants are just sitting on the ground in one of my spare bedrooms. I think the carpet might be laid directly over concrete. I looked on one of the sticky threads up top of this forum and my plants kinda look like they may have been gettin a little cold in the root zone. Do you guys think that this is a possibility along with the mg def? What measures should I take in order to keep the roots a little warmed...I really need to get these girls in line. I was hoping to put these girls into flowering asap. They are gettin kinda big for my 400 watt hps...

When it comes to my feeding schedule I have giving them 1/2 teaspoon of grow big and a full teaspoon of pbp per gallon. Along with the addition of a half teaspoon of LQ. I was using river water to water my plants and everything was looking great. I got lazy one day and decided to say fuck the river and try using some tap water that I let set for 24 hours to evap off some of the clorine, thats when things started to get funny.

 

[steveoi812]

Bump, Jeeze, a few of my leaves are starting to get this rusty looking shit on them. Any idea of what this is? Cal def?

 

[sproutco]

How fresh is the ffof soil? Have they been potted in the past few weeks? This might be too much ferts if the soil is still "hot".

How much cal mag plus did you use? It contains micros so these can be toxic if you use too much or the ph is low. Dont add liquid karma till we sort out whats wrong. You need to adjust the ph of your fert water after mixing to about 6 using an acid or base. You also need to pick one or the other regular ferts to use...Grow big or pbp. Try the grow big. I gave you a recipe.

If you go with the fox farm grow big, the following is a good recipe:
1/8 teaspoon potassium nitrate
1.5 teaspoons grow big 6-4-4
1/4 teaspoon powdered gypsum
1/8 teaspoon epsom salts

This gives you about:
140 n
30 p
135 k
60 ca
25 mg

You need to find the potassium nitrate stump remover to make the formula work well. Then instead of using the epsom and gypsum, use your new cal mag plus. You want 60 ppm calcium. So either the bottle will tell you so many teaspoons to achieve this or use the calculator in my signature.

Did you ever test the runoff of the pots using distilled water? Directions for soil testing are in my signature.

You might want to take a few more pictures showing the tops of the plants and also the bottom where you said no yellowing is occurring. The pictures are free so why not. Get close if you can.

 

[steveoi812]

Well I still haven't tested the ph of the runoff. I dont have the money to buy anything else for a while but I will get some test papers soon. I have opted to using bottled water throughout the life cycle of the plants.

Things are starting to green up nicely now. I want to thank you guys for helping me out with this problem. Thanks Sprout for all of your help with this. I am going to continue using bottled distilled water for now until I can get some ph up and down. See any problems with this? I am going to give them straight water for a while until things get real green. Maybe a week or so. Oh and I transplanted one of these girls into a 2 gallon pot tonight. Let me tell you, she was ready. No doubt. She was root bound like a mofo.

 

[Guest]

I see purple red stems does this pheno do this normally?

 

[steveoi812]

Not really sure as this is my first time growing it bro. What could that be a sign of?

 

[sparobis]

over fertilisation/mg defiecency,ph is out of whack...do a search for sick and chemical defiecentcy...looks like a magnesium/ph problem..just my 2 cents..hope this helps..
peace
sparo

 

[steveoi812]

Thanks sparo! I guess this problem runs deeper than I thought. I wish I had a hydro store that was under 80 miles away from me.