Help! Pics!

[rckymtnthuglife]

Well, I'm thinking I have a Ca def. Here's a pic of a couple of plants 1 is a hashberry clone the other a satori clone.

Both are grown in LC's mix. I only added about 1tbs of lime instead of 2 and they may have been my downfall. It had worked well on the original seeds but I think the clones are looking for a little more Ca and probably Mg. I know they are a bit N deficient as well.

Symptoms- On the Satori pictured all the new leaves are very twisted and have almost taken on a maple leaf shape. The tips are what is twisting.

The hashberry- interveinal chlorosis, usually starting from the tips on the middle to older leaves, leaf eventually dies by way of tip curling up and becoming brown and crispy while the rest of the leave yellows or develops severe necrotic spots.

As far as food goes- very light feedings of guano,ewc, molasses and kelp teas occasionally some Metanaturals bloom and micro. Sometimes I use rain...sometimes r/o...sometimes tap that has been bubbled.

Hoping this is an obvious cal/mag issue. I did foliar last night when the lights were out with 1/2tsp of dolomite lime per quart.

Suggestions???

Diagnosis?

Peace Rcky

 

[BurnOne]

Looks like they could use some nitrogen and seaweed to me.
Burn1

 

[Suby]

what soil mix? they look hungry...

 

[HeadyPete]

They also look like that soil is poorly draining because they look listless and droopy (but not in an underwatered way). What is the ratio of perlite and/or vermiculite? Is there drainage holes in the bucket? If they are waterlogged in poor draining soil then N is the first nute to become unavailable.

If the leaves are twisting, that says ph issue. When ph drops too low, Cal is one of the first to lockout, leading to brown spots.

I don't believe lime is effective as a foliar and in fact, dolomite lime takes many months to break down in soil and become effective as a ph buffer/raiser. CalMag is perfect for the times when you need to give more cal and mag. These times will be plenty if there isn't enough in your regular nutes.

 

[rckymtnthuglife]

LC's mix with only 1 tbs of lime instead of 2tbs so I've got 30% perlite. I also added 1-2 tbs of both mex and jamaican guano per gal as well as 1/2 tbs kelp meal per gal of soil mix. Last time they got watered with 4tbs of jamaican, 2tbs of mex, and 1/2 tbs kelp, with a smidge of molasses in 2 gals of water, brewed for 2 1/2 days. Tops of the plants are starting to look better and a few of the plants are starting to take on a darker green.
Thin

g that boggles me is there is a Hashberry in the room from seed that is vigorous as all hell.

I'm not much of a clone guy....do clones need more nutes??? I'll post some more pics of the problem plants...all of these were supposed to go outside....but spider mites devastated some plants I had in veg. These plants weren't paid a whole lot of attention because I thought they were going outside. We ended up getting a couple inches of snow on June 8....anyways these plants were in the window with a 42w cfl...it was cloudy the whole damn time.

HeadyPete, maybe you're right, since I only used one tbs of lime maybe my buffer got used up....some of the smaller plants are in awfully big containers for this to be the case. I hate to do it but I may bust out the pH meter. I was curious about the foliar with dolomite too...someone suggested it to someone else on this site. I figured what good would epsom do if I need Ca....figured it would be better to kill two birds with one stone.

Anyhow i"ll post up some more pics in a minute thanks for looking everyone.
Peace
Rcky

 

[rckymtnthuglife]

Well, I dusted off the ole pH meter. Not really time to water...but I found 1 plant and watered with 8.0 pH tapwater that had been sitting out for a couple days.( I never water straight with my tap, at the very least I'll add a little humic acid to it.) Anyway my runoff pH was 6.9 a tad high...but I don't think I should be having these problems. My pH meter is a year old and had been used only once before this to measure the pH of melted snow. I calibrated it as well. Hate the damn things.

Here's some more pics. I am stumped as to how to proceed.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

im going with nitrogen AND magnesium on this... probably calcium too, goes hand-and-hand with the mag def's....

 

[HeadyPete]

yup, i agree with that.

What are the numbers on your guanos? The Jamaican is probably high P and the mexican high N. You need to be using more mexican and less jamaincan guano for vegging, and the opposite for flowering.

The way to interpret your soil ph with your numbers is like this.

You watered with 8 water. Runoff is 6.9. That is a difference of 1.1 points.

This means the soil brought down the 8 ph of the water to 6.9 which means the soil is approx 5.8 to accomplish this. PH always cancels out (eventually). This assumes your meter is calibrated, which I wouldn't.

It is best to have your ph higher in the 6.4 area. All nutes are most readily available up around there. Usually mag and cal are the first to lock when ph goes too low. All this makes sense because of the fact that guanos and fish meals are very acidic and will drop the ph down.

Your water needs to be higher until the ph comes up (do this gradually over multiple waterings) and when it gets about right it will require less adjustment of your water/nutes to keep it good. This really means using the meter all the time to give you a complete ph picture to guide you.

I imagine that between the lime and high ph water from probably cal and mag that there is no shortage of those minerals, but they are locked.

Bring the ph up, gives a good dose of nitrogen and magnesium and see if they don't get greener fast.

 

[Suby]

I've seen that happen in situations like yours, LC's mix even at 1TBS dlime per gallon is fine.
If your water ph is 8 then combined with the dolomite your soil ph can get too high, some forms of guano also increase ph so it might have deepened the problem.
From the fact your plants show stem purpling, yellowing, brown patches and general droopiness I'd say ph.

Also if your water ph is 8 then it might be very high in ppm's and "hard" (calicium/magnesium/iron), your looking for a water ph of ~6 with a ppm reading of around 200-400, you can mix rain water with tap to get somewhere in that range.
Hard water is fine but your better off skipping the dolomite if it's really hard, Jiggywhompus had a very similar problem in his garden a few months ago.

LC's mix is pretty balanced and rich so IMO it's too early to be feeding, try an alternate and more acidic water source and see how things roll.

 

[rckymtnthuglife]

Well Suby, They were about 12 days into flower when I took those pics. Yeah, my tapwater is 262 ppm but I cut it 50/50 with R/O usually. Sometimes straight tap for teas cuz I figure they're usually on the acidic side. At this point I think they get a good feed tomorrow and see what happens.
Peace
Rcky

 

[Suby]

262 ppm's isn't that hard, mine is like 150-180 but my ph is 6.0 from the tap, your at 8 is where the problem lies.
It's actually made worse by the fact that the ppms are low but ph is high.
You can use cider vinegar to raise ph until you balance your soil mix with your water source, it happens alot, water is such a crucial factor people take it for granted OFTEN.

 

[molly]

Looks like some kind of lockout. Foliar feed them with some light ferts and bypass the roots/lockout. Always foliar feed in the dark and <78F degrees.

 

[HeadyPete]

You know, foliar feeding is great in theory, but have you ever smoked a bud that had been previously soaked and covered in a light mix of shits, seaweeds, dead fish and various other substances?

You can imagine the taste and smell.....

I would never foliar feed any plant in flowering, and even a vegging plant still stinks and needs to be rinsed off...

Besides, the proper fix is to correct the ph causing the lockout, not just go around it with a band aid. There is a lot of things happening in the soil that foliar can not substitute for, and a locked out soil will only lead to greater problems.

 

[rckymtnthuglife]

AAhhh, they was just hungry. I hit em heavy. It was hard to watch as I poured all those nutes on em. Thought for sure they were gonna burn....They loved it. I learned a whole lot about my plants on this run. Sorry about being such a bonehead. Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[ixnay007]

^^^^^
Damn stoners

 

[Suby]

You know, foliar feeding is great in theory, but have you ever smoked a bud that had been previously soaked and covered in a light mix of shits, seaweeds, dead fish and various other substances?

You can imagine the taste and smell.....

I would never foliar feed any plant in flowering, and even a vegging plant still stinks and needs to be rinsed off...

Besides, the proper fix is to correct the ph causing the lockout, not just go around it with a band aid. There is a lot of things happening in the soil that foliar can not substitute for, and a locked out soil will only lead to greater problems.

I'm with Pete on this, foliars can help but you have to proceed with common sense.

Using a CT or seaweed is fine during veg and early flowering but once those psistils set in I move to plain water and a little fulvic acid on occasion.

 

[jrw]

AAhhh, they was just hungry. I hit em heavy.

So what did you give them and how much?

My plants look a lot like yours, and they're in the same mix.