help!! Packing them in sog at 18"

[ogtommy]

hi everybody,
can someone please help me figure out how closely i should pack my plants in? they are all roughly 15"-18" tall and 30 days into flowering. i have 1000watt hps lights above. Ive kept my plants at 1 plant psf but i can see through the canopy and see some of the floor. is it too far apart? should i pack them in closer? ive read some people doing 4 psf and others 9 psf. i was told 1 psf is a good place to start. my plants dont seem to be stretching anymore so i guess they're as tall as theyre gonna get. I have about 64 plants under 4X10000watts and was wondering if im just wasting electricity not packing them in closer. there is space between them but when i bunch them up closer the leaves overlap and i was told that's a no-no, but i see lots of pictures of plants bunched together and they look beautiful.My plants are neither topped or trained or pruned in any way, as this is my first grow and a starting/reference point for future improvments. i was hoping to hit at least 0.5 gpw so i can start fine tuning my grow, but im afraid that 1 psf might ruin this goal completly. they are all in 8.5" round pots in promix hp.
thank you in advance

 

[boho]

Doing SOG isn't always the best idea if you don't have the proper watering and worried about electricity usage. You note that most people running that route generally are very concerned about automated watering because the hassle SOG is without it.

In my opinion it is best to start with making big plants that yield well before trying to make a bunch of little plants yield well for a small container. Achieve .5 gpw or better with larger plants first then decide if you want to SOG. You also didn't mention your growing medium or size of container although I assume it's under 5 gallons and soil.

 

[GardenJunky]

good luck tho.. for your first grow keeping 64 plants green and healthy and shit isnt easy. lol

 

[boho]

Yeah it really should be known

SOG = stress condition

There is just so much that could go wrong and spread quickly when that many are packed together.

I know you probably did as many do and see this great grow reports and videos of people yielding amazing amounts off a SOG setup. Well I'm here to tell you now, they were showing off. It's not as easy as it looks. There is reason big greenhouses that practice this method employ several people, high end chemicals, etc to make it happen in a small space.

READ GARDEN EXPERT LEVEL

 

[kooldave67]

You would need a lot of time to keep everyone healthy.I keep mine lolipopped and about 1.5sqr ft apart. I also would defoliage npow before anymore time goes into flowers. Got any good pictures of setup? I run about 22 - 24 at a time and I give them one hour a day into their care. Good luck!

 

[soursmoker]

take it from someone who tried, SOG is hard for a beginner...
There is a BIG learning curve...
But it is possible, just don't count on your first harvest being enough to pay the bills...

 

[ogtommy]

sorry, heres my pics. they are in 8.5" pots in promix hp. sorry bout the lighting, my camera sucks when hps's are on. also, the solo plant is a typical 15"-16" plant that i have populating the place. i moved here in my cloning room for a better picture.i have them all spaced about 1 psf under 1000watt hps. there are 2 1000watt lamps next to each other (4ft apart) hence i have a grid of 4 rows of 8 plants. i have 2 of these grids giving me 64 plants total

 

[boho]

For being 30 days in flowering under 2000 watts those looking a bit small. How are you watering in such small pots? I'm concerned you are or will be running up against a can't water fast enough wall near the end. This means that for such a small container the soil + roots won't be able to wick up water fast enough and dry out to support fast big growth. You probably won't be seeing .5gpw with those pictures.

Next time start with a bunch of more established plants or at least a week or two of veg time. Honestly I would of done 5-7 gallons 1 psf with 30 days veg. You would of easily hit .5gpw with minimal effort.

 

[ijim]

Just make sure all bud sites are receiving good light. I find that if rotate my plants. I can bunch them in a little bit. And keep a uniformed flower growth.

 

[kooldave67]

Hand watering isn't an option at this point,start looking and get a drip system with an 10 gallon res. This would help with auto watering and this would hold you for 1 day of feeding/watering.

 

[ogtommy]

ok, so i guess my 0.5 gpw goal is not gonna happen. Ive gotten so much conflicting information over the past few months that I guess I put things together wrong.i was hoping my 16" plants would at least yield an ounce but as boho pointed out, my plants look awfully small for 30 days of flowering. Now i guess I'm hoping for 1/2 ounce a plant? anybody willing to take a stab at approximate yield on my 16" plant?
ive constantly run across threads where people grown 6" colas sog with 1/2 ounce dried or 12" with 1 oz. I figured it was the norm. didn't realize there was so much more to it. It definately is a learning experience. I have grown in the past (10 years ago) using ebb&flow but it was an already set up system that I took over when my buddy had to leave really quickly. I figured soil would be a lot easier and hassle free but as Im finding out there is a lot of work to it. I use a watering wand connected to a garden hose connected to a 300 gph submersible pump. I got 2 50 gal reservoirs i keep topped so that i always have room temperature water ready. I have 18 1000 watt hps lights that I will be using eventually once I can figure out the best way to grow for me and learn A LOT more. I didn't realize sog was so difficult. I thought it was probably the easiest way to grow. Load up a table full of clones, dont veg and just flip to 12/12. guess not. ANy input or advice would be greatly appreciated on how to improve my next grow. I was going to switch to 4x8 flood and drain tables with rockwool since i was familiar with it in the past, but if this crop doesn't produce at least 0.5 gpw i wont be able to afford them so I'll prob stick to promix for at least another round. considering my equipment, what would be the best way to run it with the least amount of headaches? do as boho said and veg for 2-4 weeks and then flip @ 1 psf in 5-7 gallon pots?
sorry for repeating myself, but im stressed out over my lack of return (but grateful for the learning experience) what do 16" plants yield roughly? the picture i have posted in my earlier post is at day 30.
thank you all for your advice an input.
Boho
about me hitting the "can't water fast enough wall", what does that mean exactly? that my pots will be drying out too fast that I wont be able to water fast enough? is there anything i can do to help the situation? I dont think I can transplant them right now but anything else I can probably do. Should i be watering more frequently? i just wait til they dry out a bit and feel light and then water them. Usually 3 days. thanks for all the input., any advice will be greatly appreciated

 

[tenthirty]

I don't normally cross post, but this is probably one of the best "detailed" sog grows that I've seen done right!
http://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/6592-get-harvest-every-2-weeks.html

By the way, it took me about 15 or 20 runs "perpetual sog" to break 1g a watt.

 

[dank.frank]

We really need to define what a SOG garden is...

It is not just a bunch of un-topped single cola plants in nice rows packed tightly...that is just a garden. No offense intended at all.

But, SOG - is 4 plants per sq ft - mandatory. It was one of the primary design features that defined the particular style of growing.

2 x 2 = 16 plants
3 x 3 = 36 plants
4 x 4 = 64 plants

Since this IS NOT what you have going, any and ALL advice in relation to a SOG and your garden is pretty much incorrect...

SOG is mono-crop trays. SOG is literally just rooted clones placed directly to flower in .5 gal containers. Due to the limited root space, this usually requires hydro type techniques with 1/4 strength waterings 4-5 times a day....on drippers...because you can't reach into a SOG to water by hand.

This also means, due to limited root space in a true SOG, it is VERY hard to do in a fully amended organic soil / water only configuration. I find in soil, just rooted clones need 1 gallon to finish as I LIKE them too, and then you are no longer talking SOG. The best soil grown true SOG gardens I have seen are done in beds, not containers.

I wish people would understand that SOG is a VERY SPECIFIC way of growing. It is not some generic term to be loosely applied to every single cola plant...

And I do realize this is the beginner's forum - and why I am trying to steer you in the right direction and away from your misconceptions...and to help you get advice that will actually pertain to your situation and current style of growing.

In a SOG, your plants typically FINISH around 18-26". SOG is BEST with sativa dominant hybrids that grow tall and thin...you need the 3-4x stretch to get enough internodes on a plant that is placed into flower at 4-7", with zero veg time.

SOG is NOT a stress condition... I FULLY disagree with that opinion...



dank.Frank

 

[BasementGrower]

agree with dank frank... when i did my first sog.. i had over 400 plants in a 8x10 in 1 gallon bags filled 3/4th filled.. had made tables to put them on.. and i was hand watering .. using 2 40 gallon trash barels every day.. got a nice harvest.. and still have pics of it.. too not to mention. i had 15 strains.. so every day up until stretch was over i was moving plants around so that the taller would be further and smalllest right under lights.. it was a ton of work.. and next time i do it.. im going to split the room into strains and do Soma beds indoors.. and run a ton of plants single colas.. and go lol.. shits not easy to hand water.. but setting up a auto water system for that many plants is too difficult unless u do flood tables and shit..

but SOG is a nice way to grow.. now i prefer bigger plants with multiple colas.. instead..

 

[soursmoker]

BG
how many lights were you running over that area and what did your yield turn out to be?
soil?

much to you man, SOG is a lot of work for sure. I would never be willing to do a 400 plant SOG, fuck that... lol mad props!

 

[ogtommy]

thanks for all the help.wow, I was totally and completely misinformed.I listened to the guy at the hydro store thinking they would know best....ok, so here's my situation.I totally love growing.I wake up happy every day looking forward to see my progress.I grew 10 years ago on ebb& flow takes using rockwool and figured this couldn't be that much harder growing in pro mix with little plants. boy was I wrong... I've inherited a lot of equipment 18x1000 watt hps lights, 1x400 watt mh light ,a few fluorescent lights, 1 can 150 scrubber, 1 1750 cfm inline fan 1 1000 cfm fan 2 50 gal reservoirs , lots of cloning trays , bags of hydroton, 15 bales off pro mix hp,300 2 gal round pots,10 3 gal pots and lots of other things to ec meter,oh meter, lumen meter, pumps, wands, bins, buckets etc etc. but I have no one working with me. oh yeah,I also have 450 square feet of growing space.I p artitioned off 50 sq feet for my mom's and clones and for veg. I started with 4 lights so I can learn as I go before I turn them all on. realizing sog is not for beginners, what would be the best and easiest method for me to get started?I have lots of patience and got about 6 to 8 hours I can spend a day on my pants.any suggestions?I was planning on switching to ebb and flow takes since I had experience with them, but I had all the pots on hand and the pro mix so I went with that. what would be the best way to utilize what I got? I'll have a bit more money to invest in more equipment if needed but I was hoping to do a few grows first to get the hang of it all before I went nuts with everything running at max capacity. any information or recommendations would be greatly appreciated

 

[soursmoker]

sounds like you really dove in head first...
idk where to start...

dont run all those lights because you prob wont be able to cool them.

run a light or two and start out basic, search for mothers and expand from there.

oh and REEEEAAAAADDDD.

almost any question imaginable has already been answered bro!

 

[boho]

With what you have I would ignore gpw for a while and just try and hit your targets for the patients/users you have been growing for. You have so much equipment it's best to just start thinking about yield in general then dialing it in. My main suggestion is automate watering and go with larger containers and veg. If you have the cash, ebb and flow is awesome but will be expensive to expand.

I would say start with 3-4 plants per 1000w bulb in containers near or larger than 5 gallons. Everytime you harvest, add another 1000w bulb to the room with 3-4 more plants. This will give you a gradual increase that you can handle and limit the risk of wasting light, soil, and time.

 

[kooldave67]

Dude keep going with your 60+ plants for now and just keep 2 of the lights on them. Work on fixing watering issues and think about defoliage. Keep going your already there.

 

[ogtommy]

Kooldave.
Thanks for words of encouragment. so, i should turn two lights off and crowd them all under 2000 watts? ok, so that would be 4 plants a sq foot. Im on day 33 now, a lot of my plants have some nice lower branches with nice bud on it. should i cut those off? effectively cut everything off the lower 1/3 of the plant? it's not too late right now? as far as watering goes, i do want to incorporate automatic watering when i expand. it's not so bad right now. i got a 300 or so gph pump, can't remember what it was, it was leftover from my ebb and flow days 10 years ago. it pushes out 250 ml a second through my watering wand so i usually water my plants for about 4 seconds and see about 10 percent runoff 10 minutes later. it takes me 5 minutes to water all my plants so it's not so bad. i notice the next day my promix is not dry dry but if i pinch a small portion really hard between two of my fingers a little bit of water comes out. is that dry enough for me to start watering daily? or should i leave it til it almost goes bone dry (usually 2-3 days depending on the plant)? anyhow, thanks for all the great info. I know im not going to hit my 0.5 gpw i was hoping for but next run, i definately will improve and slowly get better.