Help me setup my small grow!

[LivingKoan]

Hey ICMag, need a little help setting up my grow room. I'm planning to run 2 - 1000w HPS fixtures in a 5'x9' tent, with another 1000+watts in vegetative lighting/fans/RDWC equipment. The room size is 12'W x 12'L x 10'H and it has real hardwood flooring. I've already got a utility sink installed in one of the two closets, and ran a 60amp subpanel in the other. I ran 2 15amp 120v circuits from the subpanel, one to add extra outlets in my living room and one with GFCI outlets in the grow room.

So here are my questions:

-I'm planning to run a natural gas line into the grow room since I already use it for my furnace/water heater. Would it be worth it to add a CO2 generator to a small grow like this?

-What size AC will I need? Going by the AC sizing guide on the forum I keep getting around 18,000btu~. Does that sound right for this grow? Like I said, would be around 3000-3300watts in the room, total. I have thought about aircooling the lights, drawing the air to and from the attic, but it seems like a lot of extra work.

-Since I have real hardwood floors I thought about putting down some panda film or something to protect it against small spills. I have looked into pond liners, but not sure if its necessary. How far should I go trying to protect the floor?

-I have a 60amp subpanel (ran with 6/3 wire). It will have 2 15 amp circuits + 1 30amp circuit for the lighting controller + either a 15amp or 20amp circuit for the mini split. The subpanel should be able to handle this load right? I figured the actual draw would be a lot less than 60amps. Some of the wattage in the room will also be on the circuits that were already installed in the home.

Thanks guys!
Cheers!

 

[Lester Beans]

Please do not run a natural gas line into your grow. That's just not going to end well.

 

[LivingKoan]

Why? What about my other questions?

 

[Granger2]

Definitely get pond liner, double sided tape, and craploads of gorilla tape. Yes, CO2 worth it for sure, but I wouldn't use Natural gas. I'd go with bottled.

You'll need, rule of thumb, 5000 per 1000w of light. 18,000 would be better. You'll also need a dehumidifier.

Unless you're in a really cold climate, attic air won't do much cooling.

The only advice I can give about electrical is to overbuild. Ask Rives in [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Growroom Electricity and Wiring[/FONT] Sticky. Good luck. -granger

 

[LivingKoan]

Thanks for your response. You both have told me not to run NG, but haven't explained why. I already use it in my house and it seems safer than propane. Bottled CO2 seems like a chore replacing them often, but I may consider it.

I've read about the 5000btu/1KW lighting rule of thumb, but that doesn't consider other electrical equipment in the room. Which is confusing since I'll be running about 2300~watts lighting + 800~w of secondary equipment.

I found some HDPE ponder liner that I may use: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDPE-12-x-1...rcial-Lakes-/222025200834?hash=item33b1bbb4c2

 

[rives]

I can't help you with the CO2 question, I've never bothered with it.

Same thing with the A/C, I don't use it. If you do some searches on here, there are some pretty good threads relating to sizing and installation, and what Granger said sounds pretty accurate. There are lots of variables, like how hot your outside environment is, your insulation, etc. Venting to the attic would be an absolute no for me (been there....) - condensation and mold are damn near inevitable. If you live in a cold enough climate to actually do some good, then your neighbors wonder why there isn't any snow on your roof...

I'd protect the floor to whatever level you are willing to damage it. Shit happens. If you are using any variant of hydroponics or Blumats, I'd go with the pond liner. If you are hand-watering, then you could probably get by with large flood & drain trays under the plants as long as you are diligent about cleaning up spills.

You are limited to 80% of the circuit ampacity for continuous loads, which are considered to be anything over 3 hours. Loads of shorter duration can bump up against the full rating of the breaker. Keep in mind that HID lighting is very sensitive to voltage sags, and if the motor is continually starting and stopping on your A/C, it can easily create enough of a drop to cause restart problems with the lights. If the circuit is heavily loaded and/or the run to the sub is very long, the problem can be exacerbated. Motors can pull up to 3x their rated current during startup. You don't mention what voltage equipment you are planning on running - running 240v will cut your current in half and help you stay within the constraints of your installation.

 

[LivingKoan]

Yeah sorry, it will be 2 120v 15amp circuits, 1 240v 30amp circuit for a 4hub light controller, and another 240v 15-20amp circuit for the A/C. 15+15+30+20= 80amp, but the actual draw should be around 30amps, I think. Does that sound right? Just trying to make sure my subpanel can handle this setup, hoping I didn't undersize it.

 

[moses wellfleet]

I always worked on 4K btu per 1K light for a/c cooling. That's in a warmish California type environment.

My guess if you work on 5K btu you will be fine even with the extra equipment!

Edit: You haven't mentioned ventilation. My estimate is for a sealed grow!

 

[LivingKoan]

There's a vent in the room from the central AC, but I was thinking about closing it off and maybe even insulating it a little bit. I don't want the extra heat coming through during the cold months. Really depends if I add a CO2 generator or not.

If I go by that rule of thumb 12,000btu would be more than enough then, right? Would be good to save the $ on a smaller unit. I'm at about 38* latitude, if that helps.

 

[rives]

Yeah sorry, it will be 2 120v 15amp circuits, 1 240v 30amp circuit for a 4hub light controller, and another 240v 15-20amp circuit for the A/C. 15+15+30+20= 80amp, but the actual draw should be around 30amps, I think. Does that sound right? Just trying to make sure my subpanel can handle this setup, hoping I didn't undersize it.

The first two 120v-15a circuits should be balanced on opposite phases, giving you 15a @ 240v. So, 15+30+20 for 65a rated maximum. You have 48a for long-duration loads and up to 12a more for short duration loads. You should be fine with the loads that you have discussed.

There are couple of other things for you to consider. The rated lamp wattage doesn't include the ballast losses (the overhead that the ballast uses to do it's job). The gross figure should be on the ballast nameplate, and it typically runs +/-10% over the lamp wattage. Another thing to keep in mind is that most of the available lamp controllers will not meet code because they have inadequate downstream protection. The receptacles and associated wiring are very rarely rated for more than 20a, and the ballast cords never are. You would be better off downsizing the feed breaker to the controller so that the downstream components are adequately protected, while keeping your load at 80% of the breaker rating as a maximum running load.

 

[LivingKoan]

So you're saying I can run 12/2 wire on a 20amp circuit to the lighting controller? As long as I keep it under like 16amp load?

 

[rives]

So you're saying I can run 12/2 wire on a 20amp circuit to the lighting controller? As long as I keep it under like 16amp load?

Yes, #12 wire would be fine on a 20a breaker. Whether you use 12/2 or 12/3 depends on whether or not the controller uses 120v internally for anything, and you would want a ground wire included (12/2 w/ground, for example).

 

[PrivateCultivat]

Please do not run a natural gas line into your grow. That's just not going to end well.

I thought the exact same thing. While the odds are great that nothing would happen, if something were to go wrong the results could be catastrophic. For me, the results wouldn't justify the risk.

 

[Lester Beans]

Why? What about my other questions?

Are you planning to run a natural gas CO2 generator?

Or are you planning to supply the plants with natural gas?

 

[LivingKoan]

Yeah, I was going to run a CO2 controller + CO2 NG Generator, which I would mount outside the tent

 

[LivingKoan]

I'm still undecided as to whether I should run a CO2 generator, and whether I should go with a 12k btu AC or 18k.

Also, about protecting the floors, the utility sink I have setup in the closet is also on hardwood. I asked the plumber who installed it if we should put some plastic down to try to protect the floors, but he didn't seem to think it would be a good idea. The feet of the sink are bolted to the floor so it would be hard to vapor seal around them and the pipes. So it seems a little overkill to run pond liner in the main portion of the room when the closet isn't protected. Should I go all out and try to vapor seal all the flooring? Not even sure how I would do the closet. I can get some pics if that would help.

Any advice appreciated

 

[LivingKoan]

Decided I will go ahead and try to install the line Monday. Gonna run black iron pipe w/ pipe joint compound. I got a buddy who worked in construction who's gonna do most of the work. Then I'll have the gas company come out and pressure test the lines to make sure there are no leaks.

Thinking I'll probably go with a Friedrich 18,000 btu 16 seer minisplit. Found one for $1175~ shipped. Seems like it's the right size, with 2300w~ in lighting, 800w~ in chillers and other equipment, plus a 2 burner CO2 generator.

I'll try to seal the floors as much as possible, though I'm thinking any leaks in my hydro system will be caught by the tent tray. Gorilla tents are advertised as being water proof. I don't anticipate I will ever have any huge spills though, so I'm mostly just looking for a vapor barrier. Something capable of handling maybe like a half gallon spill.

And I'll also be doing as Rives suggested, running my lighting controller on a 20amp circuit. Will protect my equipment and still provide more than enough power for my room.

Still open to any advice
Thanks!

 

[rives]

I'll try to seal the floors as much as possible, though I'm thinking any leaks in my hydro system will be caught by the tent tray. Gorilla tents are advertised as being water proof. I don't anticipate I will ever have any huge spills though, so I'm mostly just looking for a vapor barrier. Something capable of handling maybe like a half gallon spill.

Speaking from experience, Murphy laughs at what you anticipate.

Many years ago, I built a room in my attic to grow in, using a couple of flood & drain systems. We had a baby sitter watching the kids when water started pouring through the ceiling on a beautiful, clear day. It turned out that the damn pressure hose blew off on one system and drained the reservoir.

I now kill any foreseeable problem that I can envision in advance.

 

[RiddleMeThis]

Speaking from experience, Murphy laughs at what you anticipate.

Many years ago, I built a room in my attic to grow in, using a couple of flood & drain systems. We had a baby sitter watching the kids when water started pouring through the ceiling on a beautiful, clear day. It turned out that the damn pressure hose blew off on one system and drained the reservoir.

I now kill any foreseeable problem that I can envision in advance.

Oh man... well my list of things to do just got a lot larger

Some excellent advice on the electrical throughout this thread, have learned a lot! Thanks man