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Help ! First A Male now showing preflowers, can I breed still
- Thread starter cronicle
- Start date
You are 100% spot on , you never know!
Ok the plant had all the male traits at first. Taller than the female , vigor and balls.. Now as of today white hairs are along for the ride as well. I seen this before and bread it, and I found great tri's on the next generation.
This I was hopeing for good seeds I can count on for 40n .. any input is thanked in advance and in discussions.
Ok the plant had all the male traits at first. Taller than the female , vigor and balls.. Now as of today white hairs are along for the ride as well. I seen this before and bread it, and I found great tri's on the next generation.
This I was hopeing for good seeds I can count on for 40n .. any input is thanked in advance and in discussions.
use it if its all you have
troutman
Seed Whore
I don't use hermie type plants.
If you have other plants I would wait to see if a regular male showed up.
Reason: If you breed with it the next generation will have that issue and you'll never have totally seedless buds. If you get a regular male you may never have to deal with this issue and have pure seedless buds from then on.
It's your call.
If you have other plants I would wait to see if a regular male showed up.
Reason: If you breed with it the next generation will have that issue and you'll never have totally seedless buds. If you get a regular male you may never have to deal with this issue and have pure seedless buds from then on.
It's your call.
Nope, cull it. The gene pool does not need these traits.
No way would I make seeds with a plant that displayed male flowers then suddenly was female, unless it was reversed on purpose.
You will waste time and money going through the progeny.
No way would I make seeds with a plant that displayed male flowers then suddenly was female, unless it was reversed on purpose.
You will waste time and money going through the progeny.
LifeIsGrowing
Member
Interestingly enough I've seen this before but never got a chance to use it for breeding and I remember reading an article about these wayyy back in the day. They're not quite hermi's.. They're transvestites and supposedly if you use one of these male>female plants you can actually breed it with plants that are hermie prone and cancel out that hermie genetic. So in a away, it might be a valuable thing to mess with.. I'd say pollinate some and grow em out and see what happens, it might possibly produce some super stable genetics.
-Life
-Life
troutman
Seed Whore
M
metsäkana
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Hey.
I doubt this is true, otherwise it would be more widely known and talked about topic; That two plants with hermie/intersex traits would cancel each other's hermie traits out.
..and this is the first time i hear about it, but i'm no pro.
Sam Skunkman advices against using plants that have intersex traits in them.
And as mentioned earlier "likeness breeds likeness" = hermie traits will be passed on to the offspring.
You may find clean plants in the mix, thou quite likely the offspring will show some intersex traits as well.
But if you, cronicle, think that the male is nice and you wanna use it regardless, then go for it.
..once you grow out the offspring, then you'll know how it worked. But don't feel too bummed if the seeds will grow hermie-plants, cause that scenario is quite likely.
LifeIsGrowing
Member
"If you have a male plant (that is a primo strain or hybrid) that flowers normally then pokes out a few female pistils, I call these hermaphrodites (hermies), "transvestites" because they are males that tend to lean female a bit. These hermies are the polar opposites of females that tend to lean male, which suck for many reasons, as we all know, and have likely experienced. So here's the "trick" mi amigos, you can often breed this type of male with a female that tends to hermie a bit. Not only will the offspring generation be very female heavy, but there will be no hermie females either. Nice, right? The male transvestite breeder has to be a male, and only after flowering for a bit, he'll only then show a few female pistils. Don't use a plant that is a true ,normal, hermaphrodite and shows equal male and female flowers. Nothing is a failsafe and whenever messing with something as complex as hermaphrodites, you can experience unfavorable results. However, another perk of doing this, when done right, is increased resin production in the female offspring, above and beyond what you would expect from the crossing of the two."
-Quote from Sensi Sermons "Are we there yet?" by the Rev in Best of Skunk Vol. 2
I would take advice from the Rev before Sam personally, but hey what do I know? Although I will say, the Rev has worked closely with nearly every breeder in the business and his offerings have been worlds above sams, so I bet he does know a thing or two.
The thing is I totally understand your mentality on it, but genetics are complex and weird sometimes. The transvestites are males leaning toward female, not the other way around, so it's very likely using this will breed a plant that WANTS to be female. The reason it could very possibly cancel out a normal hermie trait is because a hermie is a female that wants to go male and by using a male that want to be female, you bring it back into balance. It's the same thing as two people who have what you would think are conflicting genetics but because of the way recessive and dominant traits sometimes gets screwy, they sometimes prevent the thing you're expecting them to worsen.
-Life
-Quote from Sensi Sermons "Are we there yet?" by the Rev in Best of Skunk Vol. 2
I would take advice from the Rev before Sam personally, but hey what do I know? Although I will say, the Rev has worked closely with nearly every breeder in the business and his offerings have been worlds above sams, so I bet he does know a thing or two.
The thing is I totally understand your mentality on it, but genetics are complex and weird sometimes. The transvestites are males leaning toward female, not the other way around, so it's very likely using this will breed a plant that WANTS to be female. The reason it could very possibly cancel out a normal hermie trait is because a hermie is a female that wants to go male and by using a male that want to be female, you bring it back into balance. It's the same thing as two people who have what you would think are conflicting genetics but because of the way recessive and dominant traits sometimes gets screwy, they sometimes prevent the thing you're expecting them to worsen.
-Life
Hey Life
Yea, but this Rev guy doesn't seem to be too convinced about this claim himself; that "lightly" hermie-male and -female would counteract each other, making the offspring "hermie free"
..cause few lines after this claim, he states:
"Nothing is a failsafe and whenever messing with something as complex as hermaphrodites, you can experience unfavorable results."
As a personal account on this..
I while ago i grew a seed i had made myself, Black Domina x X-18 male. The Black Domina lady grows a few nanners if she's stressed during late bloom. Tom Hill's X-18 line has a fair bit of hermie-traits in it.
When i collected the pollen, i only flowered the male about 6 weeks before cutting him down, but he hadn't shown any pistils by that time. He was a sativa-leaning male and other sativa-leaning plants in X-18 line hermied on me, so it's quite likely that he would have started growing pistils later on in bloom.
After about 5 weeks of flowering this BD x X-18 hybrid, it started growing nanners all over the place, while other plants in the same tent continued to grow normally = no light leaks.
This hybrid hermied far worse than the BD mom ever does.
And this is why i have problems believing this claim by Rev.
Peace.
Yea, but this Rev guy doesn't seem to be too convinced about this claim himself; that "lightly" hermie-male and -female would counteract each other, making the offspring "hermie free"
..cause few lines after this claim, he states:
"Nothing is a failsafe and whenever messing with something as complex as hermaphrodites, you can experience unfavorable results."
As a personal account on this..
I while ago i grew a seed i had made myself, Black Domina x X-18 male. The Black Domina lady grows a few nanners if she's stressed during late bloom. Tom Hill's X-18 line has a fair bit of hermie-traits in it.
When i collected the pollen, i only flowered the male about 6 weeks before cutting him down, but he hadn't shown any pistils by that time. He was a sativa-leaning male and other sativa-leaning plants in X-18 line hermied on me, so it's quite likely that he would have started growing pistils later on in bloom.
After about 5 weeks of flowering this BD x X-18 hybrid, it started growing nanners all over the place, while other plants in the same tent continued to grow normally = no light leaks.
This hybrid hermied far worse than the BD mom ever does.
And this is why i have problems believing this claim by Rev.
Peace.
LifeIsGrowing
Member
"This Rev guy"..? How do you not know who The Rev is? He's one of the top editors at Skunk, ran K.O.S. seeds and was one of the biggest promoters and developers of using Total Living Organics to the entire community, all of which produced alot of great work.. He's not some unknown character in the breeding world, the dude has both given alot of great information to the public and great genetics.
I'm kinda confused though on how your use of a hermie-prone female bred to a male that's genetics are hermie prone. A transvestite is ultra rare and isn't a common trait even in genetics with females that are hermie-prone. If you didn't see pistils by 4 weeks in, it wouldn't be considered a tranny, at 6 weeks if it was just showing male flowers, that was just a straight male with bad genetics that were female>male hermie prone that didn't compliment the already hermie prone female you used. You just doubled down on the dominance of the hermie trait.... Which explains why you had the results you did.
Also what is the harm if he's seen something similar in the past and had great results and wants to try it again? As long as he's not selling the seeds on the open market, I don't see why he should NOT create some seeds and at least test the idea considering it is an ultra rare trait.
-Life
I'm kinda confused though on how your use of a hermie-prone female bred to a male that's genetics are hermie prone. A transvestite is ultra rare and isn't a common trait even in genetics with females that are hermie-prone. If you didn't see pistils by 4 weeks in, it wouldn't be considered a tranny, at 6 weeks if it was just showing male flowers, that was just a straight male with bad genetics that were female>male hermie prone that didn't compliment the already hermie prone female you used. You just doubled down on the dominance of the hermie trait.... Which explains why you had the results you did.
Also what is the harm if he's seen something similar in the past and had great results and wants to try it again? As long as he's not selling the seeds on the open market, I don't see why he should NOT create some seeds and at least test the idea considering it is an ultra rare trait.
-Life
Hey, Life
No need to feel confused..
I didn't know the X18 male was dodgy cause i didn't flower him to the end, cause i figured i can test the offspring.
The BD females stays clean if you don't stress her. I understand you can sexually reverse any cannabis plant, males and females.
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Sorry, but bunch of "name dropping" and list of credentials doesn't prove anything to me. I don't worship rock stars, filmstars, politicians nor cannabis breeders/growers, and know very few of them.
Here's Rev again. Read it. Why is he talking about "nothing being failsafe" and possible "unfavorable results" if this tranny-claim would be a proven fact?
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Nothing is a failsafe and whenever messing with something as complex as hermaphrodites, you can experience unfavorable results."[/FONT]
But perhaps some genetic disorder is possible, i dunno. That quote by him just doesn't fully convince me.
..and now this talk that the "plant has to sexually reverse after 4 weeks otherwise it doesn't work" seems abit weird also, but what do i know, this was the first time i heard about this.
.
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Also, some people say there are also "clean" lines that have larger % of females than males in their offspring, so higher female-ratio doesn't have to be a "tranny thing"
But hey..
I have no interest to argue this any further. If Rev's right and i'm wrong, no worries.
But there should be a scientific explination to this supposed phenomenon, not just made-up concept of "tranny plants" = every cannabis plant can be sexually reversed, i understand. It's a survival mechanism of cannabis.
Peace.
