Help a noob save his dying plants.

[plainenglish07]

Alright, this is my first grow and I am trying to go cheap and simple. I know I am going to make alot of mistakes so for my first time I didn't want to go too all out. Basically I am doing a micro grow in a pair of speaker boxes, 4 plants to each box (8 total) with 4 23watt CFL in each box. The plants are in gallon jugs and the soil I used was Scotts from Home Depot. I forget the exact name on the bag but I am pretty sure it was unfertalized, all i can remember is that is said it was good for herbs on the front . I water them every other day with 10 oz of water each.

Here is an old picture so you can get an idea.

The plants were planted May 17 (around there) and I was planning on starting flowering around the beg of july so I can harvest before I have to leave for school. My problem started about a week or so ago where a few plants started showing a yellowing on the tips and edges of the leaves. Well now all of the plants are showing it in some degree and I have no idea what is causing the problem. In another forum a guy said it was nute burn but I am not so convinced since I am pretty sure the soil I used was unfertalized. Here are some pictures of the plants.

Group shot

Here are pictures of various individual plants.

As you can see some of the plants just don't look good at all and are loosing fan leaves. Looking through the sick plant FAQ my best guess is a phosphours deficency but I am not sure. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Guest]

looks like ph fluctuation to me but im no dirt man

 

[Blackvelvet]

Potassium deficiency.

I water them every other day with 10 oz of water each.

You need to let the plants get somewhat dry between watering.

 

[mid-east-stone]

i had it also.
flushed a little. adjusted ph - very important, and it was ok eventualy.
what is th eph?

 

[plainenglish07]

i had it also.
flushed a little. adjusted ph - very important, and it was ok eventualy.
what is th eph?

No idea what the ph is.

 

[Guest]

You never mention any sort of fertilizer so I assume that they are as of yet unfertilized? What are you going to use for nutrients? If they are unfertilized they are ready to get a lil dose of some love. Do some homework and pick a fertilizer and start them on a very dilute nute regimen as per package directions. I'd go at about a third of what they reccomend to start with. Stop watering everyday and start watering when the plants need it, the easiest way is to pick up the containers and if they are feeling light give them a drink. One more thing, double check the bag that your Scotts soil came in and make sure that there are no nutes in it before you add any additional. That soil probably retains water a lil too well, watering everday is depriving the roots of the oxygen that they need, if you let them almost dry out between waterings the roots will be much happier.

 

[plainenglish07]

You never mention any sort of fertilizer so I assume that they are as of yet unfertilized? What are you going to use for nutrients? If they are unfertilized they are ready to get a lil dose of some love. Do some homework and pick a fertilizer and start them on a very dilute nute regimen as per package directions. I'd go at about a third of what they reccomend to start with. Stop watering everyday and start watering when the plants need it, the easiest way is to pick up the containers and if they are feeling light give them a drink. One more thing, double check the bag that your Scotts soil came in and make sure that there are no nutes in it before you add any additional. That soil probably retains water a lil too well, watering everday is depriving the roots of the oxygen that they need, if you let them almost dry out between waterings the roots will be much happier.

No fertilizer, I assume I should start using something. Any recomendations?

 

[scegy]

hey man

do those bottles have holes in the bottom for drainage? because there's a lot of soil for babies that small, they get easily overwatered because their roots are not equaly developed over the bottle yet and the plant doesn't use that much water that you provide

drill as much holes as u want on the bottom, more is better, and water them gently untill they get bigger, also let them dry(wilt) before you water them again

your soil should have enough nutes for them to grow at least 20-30 cm high

when the plants show you they need them(look in the complete guide to ... in the faq, and look under Nitrogen how the plants look when they need it) you can use Guano if you can get it, very good fert, or some sort of tomato fertilizer will do the trick aswell, don't forget to add lime if you plan to use mineral nutrients

check on your soil bags for pH values, and write them here, "copy paste" the whole lable with nutrient informations

as rudedude said it, i bet my spliff on the fact that you'r overwatering them
water gently, wait before you use nutes, drill some holes!

good luck

 

[plainenglish07]

I will find out the soil info today, i can't find the bag on home depots website.

Yes, there are a bunch of holes in the bottom and I was watering every other day with 10 oz of water per plant. I have now cut that back to waiting for the soil to get dry which is usualy about 3 days and still only adding 10 oz of water.

 

[mig]

pH affects nutrient availability!!!

pH affects nutrient availability!!!

I would invest in a ph test kit. a cheap one from a pool supply store or a place like that works fine. the depot might have something even, maybe in the garden section for the small aquatic pools. The tester will give you a decent idea of what your ph is. soil pH should be around six, no greater than 6.5, no lower than 5.5. pH out of this range will have a tendency to lock out some nutrients. Measure the pH of the water before you water and then test the runoff after you water. The output number is more important than the number goin in. however, overtime, if you keep the pH of the water goin in, it will buffer the soil pH to the same pH as the water. I would def start them on a light fert reg if you havent already, you will see a nice increase in growth. Guanos are good organic ferts, however I have found through my experiences that they only supply a limited range of elements, ie nitrogen, or phosphorus, not potassium. granted it is an awesome fert, i love it, you just need to supplement it with a potassium fert. For my first official grow with my setup I used an organic coco mix with guanos and many other organic amendments, and the results were very pleasing, however later in flower I experienced some hardcore potassium def, or salt build up I havent found out yet. But I think next time Im am gonna use some Pure Blend Pro Grow/Bloom and Liquid Karma. I think this would yield satisfactory results. It is a premium organic fert derived from guanos and kelp meals and such, so it sounds pretty decent. If anyone reads this who has done this fert program, lemme know how your results were. Hope this is helpful. peace

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

when you transplant thoes id fill the dirt up to the bottom of the lowest leafset to give the main (streched) stem some more support, and roots will branch off it too.
im with them on the P def, tap water does it to mine.. the rest of the plant looks good to me..

 

[bluebublelove]

maybe consider blocking out the light from the roots, i.e. taping off the buckets...even though the roots are no where neat that large yet. but you know what im sayin though..

 

[Guest]

Those plants are very hungry

Nitrogen Magnesium Calcium you name it. Plants wants it and want it now
Peace Bro´
Keep up the good work they will pull through that face , just give them
(FOOD)

 

[Guest]

And like bleubublelove is saying COWER the bag ´s
NO Light to the ROOT´s

 

[plainenglish07]

Those plants are very hungry

Nitrogen Magnesium Calcium you name it. Plants wants it and want it now
Peace Bro´
Keep up the good work they will pull through that face , just give them
(FOOD)

Ok, first off I will tape the bottoms of the jugs so they don't get any light and I am thinking I will add some more soil to help stabalize the plants as well as poke more holes int he bottom to let water out. I understand they now need nutrients and I understand how to test the ph of the soil and the different nutrients they will need for the most part. My question is there a fool proof brand or certain type of fertalizer that i can go to a local gardening store that would cover all of my basis? I am trying to avoid having to mix and match fertalizers, I was kinda hoping for something i can add once that would help with veg and flowering. Like i said, this is my first grow so i kinda want to keep it as simple as possible to get my feet wet.

 

[Guest]

A good readily available fertilizer is called Pete's I believe, they have it in most gardening shops. It comes in a few formilas, there is one that's 20-20-20 that you could use for veg and there are other ones suitable for blossom. Follow the directions on the package and at least for a while give them a weaker solution than the package recomends, once you are sure they can handle it you can bump them up. Another readily available fertilizer that everyone's heard of is Miracle Grow. There are much better nutes available to grow weed but either Miracle Grow or Petes will work and are readily available and are easy especially for a newbie. Just remember less is more better, lol, it's alot easier to raise fert levels on a plant that is slightly underfed than it is to raise a plant from the dead that has been overfertilized. Good luck.

 

[Arther_Daily]

I think you need to block the light to the roots as others have said. That was my 1st thought when I saw the pic's.

That said, I am capable of the most noobish stupidity, so feel free to ignore my advice.

 

[Guest]

Lots of help here, cool - way to go all.

For nutes - veg will need high NP, low K.
When you get ready to flip switch to low N, High P, low K.

For instance, in peat moss (soil-less, I use guano, but if U need to use chems go for it) I start with 10-2-1.

Late veg they start getting hungry and need more P, 10-10-2.

Beginning of flower they need less N and K, 1-10-.2.

Late in flower they need even less, .5-12-.2.

Whatever you get, try to duplicate those ratios and you will do fine. If using chems, a little goes a long way - start out about 1/3 of what the package states and dilute it more with water until you get the feel for it by watching them, they'll let you know if you fuck up.

When watering, "if it feels light - water" means feather light! Like an empty pot. They will start to droop, and with a light pot it tells you to feed.

Years ago I found a bloom boost food that was 10-52-10 NPK, when it called for a tablespoon per gallon I used half, and then doubled with water to dilute it. That will get you going until you're ready for serious growing.

As for pH, tapwater usually works out fine, some towns use salt to help chlorinate with chlorimines instead of chlorine, so flush them well, when you water you want to set the pot in the sink or a pan and water until you get good runoff coming out the bottom. Practice that and you shouldn't have any salt buildup probs or pH shifts. Think about investing in a cheap pH meter, RapidTest sells one for about 19 bux and can test for N with it too, fine for soil work. When you get into serious growing you'll want to invest in a better pH tester, but haven't had any pH problems in years using the flush water method.

That's all I can think of for now - browse the grow forums to see how it's done and most of your questions and worries can be answered there. Feel free to PM when you get the post count to unlock that feature.

Good luck, they look fine but overwatered and hungry.

CHEERS! 1T

 

[plainenglish07]

Lots of help here, cool - way to go all.

For nutes - veg will need high NP, low K.
When you get ready to flip switch to low N, High P, low K.

For instance, in peat moss (soil-less, I use guano, but if U need to use chems go for it) I start with 10-2-1.

Late veg they start getting hungry and need more P, 10-10-2.

Beginning of flower they need less N and K, 1-10-.2.

Late in flower they need even less, .5-12-.2.

Whatever you get, try to duplicate those ratios and you will do fine. If using chems, a little goes a long way - start out about 1/3 of what the package states and dilute it more with water until you get the feel for it by watching them, they'll let you know if you fuck up.

When watering, "if it feels light - water" means feather light! Like an empty pot. They will start to droop, and with a light pot it tells you to feed.

Years ago I found a bloom boost food that was 10-52-10 NPK, when it called for a tablespoon per gallon I used half, and then doubled with water to dilute it. That will get you going until you're ready for serious growing.

As for pH, tapwater usually works out fine, some towns use salt to help chlorinate with chlorimines instead of chlorine, so flush them well, when you water you want to set the pot in the sink or a pan and water until you get good runoff coming out the bottom. Practice that and you shouldn't have any salt buildup probs or pH shifts. Think about investing in a cheap pH meter, RapidTest sells one for about 19 bux and can test for N with it too, fine for soil work. When you get into serious growing you'll want to invest in a better pH tester, but haven't had any pH problems in years using the flush water method.

That's all I can think of for now - browse the grow forums to see how it's done and most of your questions and worries can be answered there. Feel free to PM when you get the post count to unlock that feature.

Good luck, they look fine but overwatered and hungry.

CHEERS! 1T

Thanks for the great advice. To be a little more specific I am going to be moving to flowering here soon in 2 weeks. I know they are kinda small but I need to harvest at a certain time. SHould I buy some veg fertalizer according to what you reccomend and then different stuff for flowering in 2 weeks or will I be ok using the same stuff the whole time(veg and flower).

I also got the information from the soil
Scotts Premium
-Potting Soil
-Peat
-Compost
-Sphagannan peat
-perlite
-Analysis F643
-Nitrogen .07%
--.04% ammonical
--.03% nitrate
-Phosphate .01%
-Potash .03%


UPDATE: I bought some vigoro fertalizer rated at 12-10-5. The fertalizer said to use 1 and 3/4 tsp per cubic foot. Since I have less than a cubic foot per plant I only used 1/2 a tsp and watered them with 250 ml of water each. Does that sound ok?

 

[Guest]

Well for one, I don't think you want to flower them until they are mature. The branches are growing across the stalk from each other now, when they start alternating they are mature and ready to flower. Most strains I've grown from seed veg from day 21 to about 60 (5-6 weeks), then run 60-90 days in flower. I think 4-5 months is a reasonable estimation from seed to harvest, depending on strain, but yeild won't be maximised unless the veg time and flower time are tuned for the strain. We veg clones to save 3 weeks normally needed to veg a sprout to maturity. I've flowered immature plants and IMHO it wasn't worth the effort or the investment of both time and money.

Your potting mix sounds like it has plenty right off the shelf, the nutes you picked up should work fine for veg, but when you flip to 12/12 flower cycle you'll want to reduce the N. Something in the line of 2-12-2 NPK. I ran all over reading nute labels, and never did find anything that was perfect. A local member talked of the Wormsway guano kit distributed by Sunleaves.com and I researched, and ordered. For $30 bux the kit has 4 different guanos with the NPK formulation for each stage of growth. Cheap, simple and efficient. Guano is used in hothouse grows of peppers, orchids and exotic flowers, and in a farming community nothing is weird about getting it in the mail. But I ramble - sorry to get off course.

Us Yanks don't do well with litres, 250 ml means nothing to me. You should water twice your pot size as a general rule. 2-qt pot would take 4 qts, a gallon pot takes 2 gallons, etc. For me this is excessive, as liquid measure is way more liquid than a dry measure pot needs to flush. Track how much water it takes to start running out of the drain holes and note it down for eachpot you use. For jugs like the pic I'd say each pot looks to take about 2 quarts for good runoff. When you water you're trying to pass enough water through to rinse out any buildup, not just enough water to wet everything. In pots elements have no place to go and build up in the pot turning it toxic to plants. Whenever you have a sick plant, first repot it properly and flush well, and you will probably never have any problems, the plant will recover.

I'd be willing to say that (if I'm understanding the way you are watering) that you're drowning them and turnin the mix in the pots toxic. It's important to rinse out elements the plant couldn't use and is building up in the mix. From the explanation of the way you water, all the stuff you pour in is still in there turning the mix sour and causing pH fluctuations and lockouts. If you rinse out the old every time you water this can't happen, you rinsed the mix and pH returns to ranges the plant needs to uptake nutes, and the plant is healthy - healthy mix, healthy plant, it's all in the roots.

Here's highlights of the OG Grow FAQ dealing with your problem.
I asked the admin of the mirror site if I could post excerpts from the trademarked GROW FAQS and was told it was fine to help someone with a problem.


"... What are common mistakes made by first time growers?
Added by: Bongaloid Last edited by: snoofer Viewed: 894 times Rated by 159 users: 8.93/10
Part 1 Contributed by: Bongaloid
Part 2 : Bush_Grower

First time growers frequently:
Overwater their medium based plants. When you pot your plant, judge its weight dry by hefting. Then, water the plant thoroughly, until water runs through the drain holes. Heft it again. When your pot feels as nearly as light as it did dry, its time to water again.
Overfeed their plants. As MrSoul says, beginners rarely under do anything. When all else fails, follow the directions on the fertilizer bottle. [Editor's note: dont follow GH's instructions! Use @ 1/4 their recommended strength, or follow recipes in the FAQ]

Overanalyze their grow. A first grow is like a first born child: you pay attention to every little thing that happens. Further, you worry at the first sign something may be wrong. Pay attention to what happens in your grow, but do not try and find a remedy for every yellow leaf. Frequently, the remedy of flushing your medium causes more problems than it solves. Be responsive when things go wrong, but be conservative in your remedies.

Overspend on grow supplies. New growers frequently commit themselves to unrealistic and expensive first grows. It is much more efficient to learn to grow and then invest in high end equipment rather than the other way around. Most experienced growers don't have room for all of the grow paraphernalia they aren't using. As you will see throughout this FAQ: K-I-S-S.
Overpost. Try the search engine first. Chances are good that any question you can think of has been asked and answered before.

Talk about their grow. Don't tell anybody that does not have to know. How can you expect anybody else to keep a secret that you cannot.

Part 2:
Contributed by: Bush_Grower

1. Don't Overwater
Overwatering kills marijuana plants. Water once the top few inches of the soil dries out.
Hydroponics is harder to over-water than soil, due to the abundance of water roots.

2. Don't Tell People
Why? They will only be jealous. People love to feel important and that is why they will tell other people; because others will listen to them.
Keep it to yourself.

3. Touch/kill Germinating Seeds
It can take up to 10 days for a seed to sprout. The paper towel method is not recommended because you must handle the seeds when transferring them from the paper towel to your growing medium.

4. Grow seeds from seeded marijuana (hermaphrodite seeds)
Unless you are prepared for possible disappointments don’t use "unknown" seeds. This is why people buy seeds from seedbanks.
Self-seeding MJ is produced from hermaphrodite plants or a very stunted and late flowering male the grower did not notice. Flowered hermi seeds will produce tall late flowering females coupled with early flowering males.

5. Don't Over-fertilize
Fertilize after first 2 spiked leaves appear.
Start with 25% of recommended label strengths and work your way up. If the leaves suddenly twist or fold under, Leach and Spray with pure water for several days!
Don’t fertilize your plants every time you water! (Soil)
A common watering schedule is to fertilize at full strength, then water at half or quarter strength. This prevents excess salt buildup, leaf and root burn. In addition, don’t water at full strength if the medium is too dry – root burn can occur.
As a precaution, leach the plants with lots of pure water every 2-4 weeks.

6. Don't Under-fertilize
Under-fertilizing is less common. If you prefer to give the plant ‘just enough nutrients’, use a organic soil mixture with blood meal and bone meal or some slow release fertilizer with micro nutrients.

7. Don't Start with Clones
Start with seeds. Bugs are a pain, as are plant diseases. Many growers are able to grow indoors without pest problems for years. Another grower’s cuttings are almost guaranteed to have diseases &/or pests.

8. Don't Provide A Bad Environment
Always provide air circulation and fresh air even during the night cycle. All the air indoors should be replaced every 5-10 minutes.
Humidity between 30-70% temp aim for around 75-85' Even seedlings need a gentle fan to strengthen the stems.

9. Don't Harvest Too Early
25% of the weight will form in the last 2 weeks. Begin flushing with 100% pH’d water when the pistil are 25% brown. Harvest when the plants have totally stopped growing and the white pistils are at least 50-75% brown.
*NOTE: Outdoors if security is a factor make your own call on when to sacrifice the fields. Also take buds continuously in case of thieves.

Common questions:
Q. Can marijuana grow in a northern climate?
Marijuana plants can grow anywhere corn can grow. All it needs is three growing months - seed to harvest. 2 if started indoors!

Q. Why do I have to buy seeds? Why can't I use my own that I picked from my own stash?
Most people desire, and want to be guaranteed, certain characteristics in their mature female plants. The seeds from any weed will all grow into something different. This is unprofitable and inefficient. As opposed to knowing the single set of requirements for your entire crop, you must provide a different set of requirements for each of your plants.

Q. What is better for a new grower - hydroponics or soil?
I believe the all around "better", more convenient setup is soil. Hydro makes plants grow faster, but won't make your buds more potent than soil. Hydro should be attempted after you have a few successful soil crops under your belt.
If you are starting from seed and growing for personal, soil is the practical growing medium. If the crop is started with clones and is commercial, a hydroponics setup is more practical.

Q. Why are my seedlings stretching?
Low light conditions. They also need a gentle wind. Plants will also stretch when subjected to conditions of high humidity.

Q. What kind of lights should I use?
Cheap 4 ft. cool white fluorescent tubes : for germination/seedlings
400 watt Metal halide/HPS : for personal home growers
1000 watt Metal halide/HPS : for some personal growers and commercial growers.
*Use at least 40 watts per sq. foot of grow space.

Q. How far should the lights be from the plants?
Fluorescent: tips of leaves almost touching bulbs
400 watt halide : two feet away from seedlings and one foot away from grown plants
1000 watt halide: four feet away from seedlings and two feet away from grown plants

Q. How often should you water?
Once a week or once every two week for soil and twice a day with a hydroponic flood and drain system.
*When top 2 inches of the soil dry out.* Occasionally provide periods of extra dry and wet soil.
*Allow 10% extra water to drain out of the bottom of the tray.* This will prevent toxic fertilizer build up.

Q. How long do your seeds last? What's the best way to keep them?
Seeds can last over 5 years if kept cool and dry. They may last up to 10 years if sealed and frozen, but fewer will germinate.

..." (Text excerpts from the mirror FAQ, formatting is mine, and permission to post pertinent information to help a new grower is not an issue). 1T