Heirlooms, IBL’s, and Purebreds…

[Desert Dan]

A quick google search provided me with some very interesting information and even more intriguing thoughts…

An heirloom seed variety is not considered such unless it has been preserved for over 100 years; ie 100 generations of consecutive inbreeding, AKA F100! If not inbred you may only have antique F1’s.

An inbred seed line is not considered such unless it has been incrossed for at least 20 consecutive generations, AKA F20!

This would mean that there are no true cannabis Heirlooms and very few IBL’s with the exception of potential unadulterated landraces.

Please ponder these thoughts with me! Are there true IBL’s or Heirlooms currently in existence? Could backcrossing shortcut the process by way of BX6, 7, 8, 9, 10? Should you start inbreeding your favorite line now, so that your great grandchildren may potentially have a true family heirloom?

-DD

 

[mudballs]

"An inbred seed line is not considered such unless it has been incrossed for at least 20 consecutive generations, AKA F20"
We get homozygous alleles after 5-9 generations in cannabis line breeding, most say F6 and beyond can be called an IBL, lab mice/rats are 20 generations to achieve that same level of homogeneity. It depends whose definition you use in what biological discipline. The numbers don't translate the same as the generic descriptor.
Heirloom i need to look into before speaking on it in regards to cannabis.

 

[Desert Dan]

"An inbred seed line is not considered such unless it has been incrossed for at least 20 consecutive generations, AKA F20"
We get homozygous alleles after 5-9 generations in cannabis line breeding, most say F6 and beyond can be called an IBL, lab mice/rats are 20 generations to achieve that same level of homogeneity. It depends whose definition you use in what biological discipline. The numbers don't translate the same as the generic descriptor.
Heirloom i need to look into before speaking on it in regards to cannabis.

Upon further investigation it appears as though Heirloom seed is defined as at least 50 years old or predating World War II… Still, that is quite a long time to be inbreeding one line.

-DD

 

[mudballs]

Another generalizing definition i saw was "handed down for several generations".
What would you like the definition to be or include as criteria?

 

[Oregonism]

Skunk has to be inbred enough for some of these definitions. I remember reading a paper in 2019? I think the gist was novel phenotypic diversity for a skunk that was claimed to be at the 37th generation...I have that paper link saved somewheres...it might even be in Skunkman's link bibliography....How many skunk #1's are just a different generation than a f1 or f2.....like f50 or above, and not actually from original or close to original stock.

Heirloom kind of reminds me of an ambiguous word like "vegetable", which are actually mostly "unsweet" fruits and roots, lol.
I like when chimera used to harp on this subject, most of these terms are subjective and don't have specific meaning even in botany. It is nice to use a word that we all can use across a spectrum and retain its meaning. Example what differentiates between Heirloom and IBL, is an IBL Heirloom different from a Heirloom IBL? etc....

Peace y'all

 

[Guy Brush]

I don't think the heirloom and IBL tags can be used here simultaneously as in conventional agriculture, like tomatoes etc.. Sam Skunkman once wrote that cannabis is an 'obligate outcrosser', iirc. And I think he meant that it needs to be hybridized to maintain its vigor and health. Tomatoes never care about this. Cannabis does.

 

[mudballs]

They can be old f3 durban poison from '70 and be heirloom. Rosenthal gave DB to Mel Frank, Mel gave it to Sam Skunkman...if he hands out old f3's cuz he didn't work the line much those are heirlooms in my opinion. If he gives out f1 hybrids of those DB crossed to something they are no longer heirloom. As long as they aren't outcrossed then you can still put old seeds in heirloom category even if they aren't past f6.