Heat from led

[sherm]

Hey IC
I've built a 5w x 8L X 8h sealed room .i am looking at getting a led light for flowering . I would like to know what size led light to use and how much heat it would generate . I have bottle co2 and I don't want to exhaust the co2 out the room .i was thinking of a 600 led .can anyone advise me in this matter?

 

[OldGuyInOregon]

Hey IC
I've built a 5w x 8L X 8h sealed room .i am looking at getting a led light for flowering . I would like to know what size led light to use and how much heat it would generate . I have bottle co2 and I don't want to exhaust the co2 out the room .i was thinking of a 600 led .can anyone advise me in this matter?

Howdy Sherm! This is how I do that calculation...

5' x 8' = 40 sq ft.

40 sq. ft x 5,000 lumens/sq. ft = 200,000 lm

You need 200,000 lumens.

200,000 lm / 100 lm per watt = 2,000 watts

If your lamps and your use of light is good, I'd say you need about 2,000 watts of lights either LED or fluoro. If HPS @ 400 watts, 1,600 watts. If HPS @ 600 watts, then about 1,350 watts.

Peace!

 

[Dready_jake]

I thought at first 2000 watts was wayboverkill but then I looked closer... 5x8. Ya that could hold 2000watts of really well vented hps. I would say for each side you'd need at least 600-800 watts of actual draw. Which is typically advertised as like 1200 watts(chip watts) and typically expensive.
You could do it with a minimum of 1200-1600 actual draw watts.

My math for that is I can get 1gpw with my led. So for most people the goal for 1000watt hps is a pound(i don't remember about 460 something grams) so if I can get a gram per watt then for every 500 actual draw watts I can beat an hps. 1000 draw watts should be able to yield two pounds if done properly and in a dialed system.
Also be careful because you can spend a lot of money on LEDs. My future upgrade costs about $1 per chip watt. And about $1.50-$2 per draw watt.

Also about the heat. My one little light doesn't raise the temps of the room any. But 1200-2000 watts might have some increase in ambient. But not near as much as an hps. And with co2 you should be straight

 

[sherm]

Hey old guy and dressy jake
Thank you for the advise . I'm not really sure what you mean buy chip watts and actual watts . This will be my first led grow . So if I got 2 of the 600 watts would that cover it . I was checking on amazon and saw the Advance platinum series p600 600 w 12 band LED grow light - veg and flower for $ 659.i was thinking of getting that size and brand . Is that the size or chip watt I need ? The you for y'all's reply .

 

[Dready_jake]

Chip watt is the number of chips times their watts. So for my 135 watt. There's like 40 something-3 watt chips. BUT! They can't run them at full capacity. Noone can. So even though its advertised as 135(cuz its chip watt) it only draws 90 watts of power. Meaning its REALLY only 90 watts of light.

Its annoying and misleading. But not if you know a little, you can just ask the actual draw watts.and avoid the misleading chip watt number altogether.

I'm not entirely sure about that light, I haven't researched that particular brand for a while and don't remember. But if were talking draw watts, 2x600(has to be draw) or 1200 watts would be the minimum the space needs. But like old guy was saying it might be better with more.

Considering they probably run at ~60% like everyone else, 600 watts probably means about 400 draw watts. So idk the spectrum but if the spectrum was decent I'd say at least 3-4x 400 watt LEDs would fill the space mostly.
But idk the spectrum of those and that is one of the most important parts

So if you could find 2-3 full spectrum, 600 watt draw led lights you'd be happie in the long run

 

[OldGuyInOregon]

I'm not really sure what you mean buy chip watts and actual watts . Is that the size or chip watt I need ?

The way most people use the terms "chip watts" and "actual watts"... "Chip watts" means "maximum rated power of the diodes". The number is not very useful. "Actual watts" means "power delivered to the diodes" or "driver output power". This number is very useful, because if you know this, and the type of diode, you can estimate lumens output by the lamp, and then answer questions like "How much growing area" or "Which lamp provides more light".

If your lamps has four CXB3590 36V, your chip watts would be 4 (# of diodes) x 36 (volts) x 3.6 (amps) = 518.4 watts. If the lamps were driven at the manufacturer test current, then actual watts 4 x 36 x 2.4 = 345.6 watts.

For any LED lamp, if I was told it was a 600watt LED lamp used to grow, I would assume that:
600 watts is the actual maximum rated power of the diodes,
300 watts is the driver output power,
316 watts is the driver input power, i.e. this is what is measured by a power meter,
light output is 300 watts x 100 lumens/watt = 30,000 lumens,
growing area is 30,000 lumens / 5,000 lumens per sq. ft = 6 sq. feet.

If the driver is an integrated driver, then the lamp actually uses 316 watts. If there is also a power supply, then there is probably a 5% loss there as well and actual power use by the lamp is 333 watts.

I cannot comment on the lamp because I do not make recommendations on LED lamp products I have not examined.

Such an interesting subject, thanks for the question!

Also be careful because you can spend a lot of money on LEDs

Word.

 

[sherm]

Hey old guy and dressy jake ,
I think I'm more confused now then when I started .lol I see I have more research to do .if I know the actual draw watts , this would tell me the actual light size ?
Could either of you recommend a brand and size light I would need . I really would hate to spend the money and end up buying the wrong thing . Like you said these lights aren't cheap .i will check to see if I can find out the actual draw watts is and let y'all know . I really do appreciate y'all's help . This is my first run with led and running co2 and already have a few coins invested in this .
Would I need a dehumidifier with LEDs

 

[sherm]

Sorry I meant dready jake . Damn auto correct

 

[Dready_jake]

My research on the most current LEDs is a bit lacking as I can't afford them so j can't recommend one for certain besides a diy. Mine is htg supply. They're a decent price compared to some.

If you have the proper air circulation then----
----->

But every leaf has to wave at you.(I.e. proper air circulation) or you could run into issues

 

[sherm]

Hey DJ
By Air circulation do you mean air movement by fan ? I was not to exhaust any air from the room just a few fans moving air around the room . Not so much to get wind burned thought . I will have to do a test run to find out if I need to add humidity or dehumidifier in the room . I not sure yet . . I have a chiller and was think of doing rec deck bucket . I had pretty good luck with it the last time , but was with hps 600 . But it get to hot and I don't want to ad an a/c in the room. I'm trying to go stealth .
I also plan to run a scrubber in the room but not exhaust it out the room . I'm not sure if it will work or not though .

 

[Dready_jake]

Yeah. If you use the VPD chart I personally don't believe wind burn exists. That is actually just a sign of low humidity IMO. And if the fan Was blowing say 75° 70%rh at the plants then they can withstand wind up to the point you knock them over. And if you have high humidity and any stagnant air you'll have issues in that area.especially in between two leafs if they're transpiring and not moving. I wish I could put up a vid of my leaves waving, and I don't even have my humidity perfect.
Plus if you believe in the fans doing like weight training and building stem strength(which I do), then why wouldn't you keep it steady throughout its life so it has to rely slightly less on supports

And lurk the sealed rooms section (idk if there is one really but its worth a search, those guys kill it) lots of helpful tips those guys have posted up!

 

[sherm]

I found this on the site but still makes no spence to me . A: Hi Jessica.. Grow light power is not measured in lumens as this is a measurement relative to the human eye. We use "PAR" which stands for photo-synthetic active radiation. Any reputable LED grow light manufacturer should list these numbers. Our entire PAR chart can be found on our site and in the supplementary photos for each model. ALSO.. it's not all about the actual brightness of our LED lights vs HPS. The power of LEDs comes with the efficiency of the spectral output. In a nutshell, plants "see" a very a specific blend of wavelength of light and value some colors/wavelengths more than others.. such as the reds and blues. HPS lights are a white light that is very heavy in the yellow/orange.. right where plants use the least amount. Thus, you're wasting about 60% of the light with HPS since the plants are not even absorbing it. It's wasted in heat and power consumption. With LED grow lights, we're able to use many different colors/wavelengths of light to combine together to form a perfected spectral output that gives plants 100% usable light. Thus, we're able to do far more with far less power than HID. This is how using for example with the P600, using 368w will have the growing power of around 800w of HPS. Efficiency in spectrum.. PLUS the ultra high, max PAR output of our specific lights. The brightest lights with the most complete, best spectrum. This is PlatinumLED.
I agree about the air movement .it help keep the stalks strong and health . Ya gotta keep the air moving around the leafs and entire plant . I know what you mean .

 

[OldGuyInOregon]

if I know the actual draw watts , this would tell me the actual light size ?

Yes. Actual draw watts are somewhat comparable. They tell you how much electrical power is available for conversion to light.

Could either of you recommend a brand and size light I would need .

No. If you want to buy an LED lamp for growing, my opinion is that you need to buy a light meter, learn how to use it, and then only buy lamps with a return period sufficient to evaluate the lamp without risk. Buy a light meter, and don't forget to buy a light meter.

 

[OldGuyInOregon]

I found this on the site... {marketing drivel omitted]

The author is stating many opinions as facts.

Yeah, on PAR: In my opinion... Any subject, like photosynthesis, can get as simple or as difficult as one would like. The level at which the subject is usefully examined depends on how detailed the subject's theories are and how much accuracy is required to obtain the correct answer.

If the question is "What lamp do I need to grow with a surface area of X?", then I believe it is sufficient to know the number of watts and the lamp technology (fluoro, LED, HPS, etc.). From this I can estimate lumens and calculate my grow area. Looks good so I buy the lamp. When I get the lamp I measure I got what I needed. No need to discuss PAR. By the way, PAR is NOT the best measure of "growing power for our particular purpose", it is just "better than lumens". Big deal.

This is how using for example with the P600, using 368w will have the growing power of around 800w of HPS. Efficiency in spectrum...

Not an opinion, this is a fact: "Growing power" depends on the grower. I build my own LED lamps, I can tell you there is no 368 watt LED lamp in existence that can outgrow 800 watts of HPS and a competent grower. It is not physically possible.

Cheers!

 

[sherm]

Hey old guy
only buy lamps with a return period sufficient to evaluate the lamp without risk.
What do u mean by that ? I don't under stand the statement .
Also I will get a light Meyer and learn how to use it . Lol.
I emailed to rep and stated I would need 4 of thosep600


To efficiently cover a 5x8 room with maximum intensity for max yield, you would be looking at 4 x P600 units. This would provide you with around 3200w of HPS power while using less than half that and creating a fraction of the heat. Perfect, high yield coverage. Highly recommended.

 

[sherm]

Hey old guy
What kind of light meter do you use to for led . Is the same as lumens . Will a cheap do the do the same as more expensive one ?
Thank you for the advice

 

[bombadil.360]

you don't need a light meter... what BS!!!

do you see anyone using a light-meter to measure HPS lights made to light up parking lots? LOL!...

listen, if you want to buy advanced led, only buy directly from their website, there are knock-offs around.

check out Area-51 led lights, they are quality.

today you have many LED lamps that will grow and flower cannabis no problem. it is a different technology than HID, not better, not worst, just gotta pay attention if what you are buying is quality or not and if you are getting the best price.

you also have Apache Tech, and LumiGrow, good lamps.

LED is expensive... there are cheaper options, that will grow and flower good, but less efficiently than the high end lamps.

peace

 

[sherm]

I did find this meter that read led could you tell me if this is what I need .

Sper Scientific 840021 Light Meter FC The color and cosine corrected sensor meets C.I.E. photopic spectrum. Will read LED light. Range: 2,000 fc
Resolution: 0.1 / 1 fc
Accuracy: ±(5% + 4d)
Will read LED light
Thank you for you time and help in this matter.

 

[sherm]

Hey bombadil.360
Thanks for the advice . I will definitely start the search . I just didn't know where yo start . I'm new to LEDs and I've been looking at the prices and didn't want to get taken. They are as high as giraffe p...y . Thanks again for the advice