Ravel
Active member
I combed through the Haze x Kali China Sticky and compiled all of the smoke reports, large, small, good, bad. Hopefully this saves time for those who don't have as much free time as I clearly do. In addition to smoke reports I've added some comments I found interesting or helpful. You're all more than welcome to add your own reports to this list, or for that matter anything Kali Haze related. Enjoy!
dubi:
"AN ALMOST PURE HAZE EXPERIENCE, IN FEMINIZED AND WITH SHORTER FLOWERING TIME
Vigorous and uniform F1 hybrid, that combines old incensey pure Haze aromas with more modern incenses from our Kali China line.
The strong Haze expression of this hybrid is almost untouched by the Kali China influence, allowing the grower to enjoy an almost pure Haze experience, in feminized format, and that finishes one month earlier than our original Oldtimer's Haze. 80 % of the plants turn purple outdoors with colder temperatures.
F1 HYBRID
FEMINIZED - ONLY FEMALE PLANTS
FLOWERING INDOORS: 12-16 WEEKS
FLOWERING OUTDOORS: NOVEMBER
YIELD / M2: AVERAGE-LOW
RESISTANCE AGAINST SPIDER MITES: AVERAGE
RESISTANCE AGAINST MILDEW: AVERAGE - HIGH
RESISTANCE AGAINST BOTRYTIS: VERY HIGH
RESISTANCE AGAINST COLD: AVERAGE - HIGH
LATITUDE: 0-45º
GENETICS: 80 % sativa / 20 % indica, but displaying an almost 100 % tropical sativa phenotype. F1 hybrid. Purple Haze x Kali China.
STRUCTURE: Tropical sativa structure with very thin leaf. Strong branching with medium and manageable node length.
BOUQUET: Mainly incense, hash and old wood. With hints that vary between tropical fruits and good red wine.
HIGH: Very hazy, psychedelic and introspective.
GROWING TIPS
It can be grown indoors without problems, although we recommend high light intensity to achieve its best potential.
Outdoors it can be grown at latitudes until 43º in a coastal climate with warm autumn. When grown in the mountains or in continental climates, it can ripen at latitudes until 35º.
We recommend low-average fertilizer levels for the whole cycle, especially Nitrogen.
----------------------------------
I just want to add that Kali China is my favourite incensey indica shaped and early flowering stabilized hybrid. Kali China aromas of incense, mango, hash, grilled meat, violets ... it's the perfect match to combine with the old school spicy, woody and incensey aromas of the Purple Haze mother 23.
As described, Haze x kali China is overall a very Purple Haze dominant feminized hybrid release. The effect is psychedelic/introspective/electric like the Purple Haze mother but with much more improved potency and improved terpene profile. Kali China adds kindness to the effect and makes it more rounded.
bombadil.360:
the taste and high were good, but nothing to write home about, did not find them psychedelic at all to be completely honest though, at least not more than your average cross.
maybe the potency was lacking due to the small container size and only 14 weeks of flowering?
mayan:
Interesting! I just this morning tried some Haze x Kali China that I had taken WAY early (about 75 days) due to it going hermie. It is wicked strong, long-lasting and the word that keeps coming to mind -prior to reading this - is "psychedelic." I would have loved to try this after 15 or so weeks of flower. But I am very happy with what I currently have - qualaity!
I got nuthin' to complain about regarding the quality. It is spectacular -even plucked early - and will provide motivational medicine that will have people running around the block backwards at double-speed for a couple of hours.
Levitationofme:
Now that the first plant has some age on it I report crisp clear hazy brain after smoking a little, lively brain activity indeed morning Beach walk material. Licorice and some type of savoryish mintness in the flavor.
dubi:
As you can compare Haze x Kali China with the 'pure' Purple Haze #23 picture i've recently posted in the Oldtimer's Haze thread, all the straight Oldtimer's Haze crosses are very Haze dominant, it doesn't matter whether you cross Oldtimer's Haze with a fast finisher like Kali China or with a longer flowering sativa, the flowering time of the straight haze cross will be always over 3 months or more.
That's why most of the so called Haze hybrids avaiable today that finish between 65-90 days of flowering time (like it's the case of Amnesia, so popular these days) have little Haze influence after all, maybe they keep the incensey smell, but the plant and flower structure and effects of these modern Haze hybrids are usually very diluted with indica genetics.
Syd Barrett:
The smell is like lavender/heavy floral/incense but very difficult to pinpoint,gotta say there are obvious similarities in aromas with the KC I also have in flower now.
ULMW:
Taking her a bit early at 12 wks. Have good amoubt of amber in trichs. Amazing blackberry smell and woody resins and oh so Hazy ! Kinda intoxicating spicy by itself when trimming.
Syd Barrett:
The smells are heavy,musky flowers with some incense ,the most recognizable smell is just...haze.Had some early tests and looks that it will be amazing on the high department,too,but I will need about a week for a proper first experience with decently dried bud.
ULMW:
Amazing blackcurrent aromas and intense hazyness all over this herb. A joy to smoke. Long lasting spacyness , little or no ceiling , smoke all day and keep getting higher.
Lovely strain and would seriously recommend all haze lovers.
Syd Barrett:
The smoke is really stinky,no stealth!The rooms stinks of incense /musk after a session.The taste is more to the red wine side of things as in your description.Very full taste with a great aftertaste. More woody KC...The effect is more rounded now after almost two months from harvest.It reminds me a bit of the queen mother ,but with a less edge .The queen mother could be more emotional/electric,this one is clearer and mind provocative.It is mentally soothing and very functional.Or at least you think that you areThe duration is good and haven't noticed a tolerance buildup,has some creeper qualities.It also comes with a no ceiling ,meaning that if you overload ,you can feel a little f*ed up .I remember feeling like driving for the second time in my life I enjoy it both at day and night ,I find different qualities.
What can I say,I suck at reports but my general opinion about the effect(aren't we all here in for it anyway?) ,is that it is a very balanced ,refined,warm ,familiar ("oldschool ")kind of high.The buzz is very enjoyable .As per potency,It is not as overpowering as malawi,but I wouldn't call it weak...Stronger than the panama ,to use as a comparison.Great weed ,checks all boxes
5 months cure...
Had a mandatory tolerance break for three days...After three years ... This was the one I reached as a "safe bet". 0,2 g in the vape =2 hours + of bliss!Starts gentle for 5 mins or so.In 15 mins I was face melting lol.Introspective at first ,very warm feeling ,but is a happy pshychedelic weed for sure!For me it had the perfect strength after my abstinence.I was listening to death metal almost headbanging and 5 mins later I was dancing to the eurovision competition
dubi:
loud incense when smoked, exotic and complex taste and aftertaste, and a great powerful not dirty Haze sativa effect, with the warmness in the effect and terpene complexity that Kali China usually adds to her best hybrids, like in Thai Chi too.
Syd Barrett:
Pure orthodox church incense .Not stealthy at all .
In the vape I get mostly woody and musky tones ,not that much leather.It is a must try for you ,knowing your taste for incense
StrongTree:
Hey Dubi... she harvested on the the early side...around 12 weeks...
at harvest aroma was "hazey" with a touch of the Kalichina spice notes ( mainly fennel / anise).... upon drying and curing it is a very "old school" flavor....
....a very tasty oily type of thing....aftertaste reminds me of hash oils i obtained in Jamaica in the early mid 1990's...a greenish black grassy oil and there was a "honey oil" as well...leaves one licking their lips...
in the pipe. spliff or chillum the effect is lovely and relaxing but not a sedative..(excellent chillum plant...the "whiff whiffff whifffff" really gives off a great taste!)
the effect can be psychedelic and quite uplifting
the incense effect is also notable,,,hanging about in the air in pleasing way
i have a clone in flower 5 weeks / due to harvest early mid june ....i will do the comparisons... but as far as i can tell this plant is a heirloom keeper !
dubi:
IMO, Haze x Kali China produces an outcome (based on genetics and terpene profiles) similar to the best dutch Haze hybrids from mid 90s, but not so aggressive, the effect is psychedelic but much more kinder thanks to Kali China influence.
Xochi:
Chopped at 14 weeks, very acidic kind of smell. Reading the bio of it red wine does describe it, quite chemically.
Vapes a bit of wet bud and the high is very nice! Refreshing
Great high from this bud! Clear and uplifting! Can get things done too mentally and physically
dubi:
Hi Koondense,
It's not a silly question, it's indeed a very interesting one.
I think there's nothing special on Haze males regarding special traits or better quality effects that a good pure Haze female couldn't pass to the offspring.
The key is parental selection and on the genetic combination ability of the different lines being crossed.
The myth of Haze males passing better traits than Haze females comes from Nevil's work. Nevil could only worked extensively with 1 Haze male (male C), as he lost the only pure Haze female he managed to germinate (female B) and he also lost male A before he could produced commercial quantities with him. So at the end, most Nevil's Haze hybrids (the ones that were most widely spread and had more impact in cannabis scene) were derived from his Haze male C.
That's why many think Haze males are more special for breeding than Haze females, a statement that i don't agree (based on my personal experience breeding with Haze females and males).
Sam Skunkman, which is probably the person in the world that has bred with larger Haze populations, bred Fuma con Dios (HazexSkunk) and Fuma con Diablo (Skunk/Haze) for Flying Dutchmen in the late 90s (both were great) and other Haze hybrids, and most of the times he has used Haze females for his Haze hybrids. Must be for a good reason.
The reason is obvious, you can select the best Haze females based on their finished product, but you can only judge the quality of a Haze male based on its offspring (or more rarely by reversing the males, a process that very few breeders do), and in both cases the final proof is always on the testing of the offspring (whether a Haze female or a Haze male is used to produce the hybrids).
At ACE Seeds (with the help of charlie garcia from Cannabiogen) we managed to germinate 40-60 original Haze seeds from Oldtimer (and after that many dozens more from subsequent generations), so we have had much more Haze genetic diversity to explore and to breed with (both on the female and the male side) that Nevil had.
I did select Green Haze #19 and Purple Haze #23 parental plants as the best females from each main pheno. I'm sure better Oldtimer's Haze parental plants can be found if you select through hundreds or thousands of plants, but unfortunately i have never had the chance to go so far and deep with the line, yet i'm very happy with the offspring that these 2 Haze female parental plants produce, both within Oldtimer's Haze line and in outcrosses like Panama Haze, Haze x Kali China, Purple Haze x Malawi, or in our Haze x Thai or Haze x Honduras series. We also released a Nepal Haze strain which was a Nepal highland female crossed with a Haze male, and it was great as well. But as you may know, i have focused my work with Oldtimer's Haze (and its hybrids) mainly on these 2 Haze females.
Your second question is different, but equally interesting. What's the different between making a cross with a female from line A crossed with a male from line B vs a cross of a female from line B pollinated by a male from line A ? That's a different history, and to reach to conclusions both different lines must be as much as inbred as possible, if you are playing with polyhybrids you will be lost in filial polyhybrid segregation and you won't reach to any conclusion.
DJ Short commented in his book (and in some posts in the forums) that he had much more success to create his blue lines by pollinating a pure sativa with indica pollen rather than with the indica x sativa cross, in both cases using same lines. Well, it could be true in the case of the lines he was breeding with, but that statement can not be generalized for all the cases. In fact, me and other breeders have experienced better results in certain cases by pollinating indicas with sativa pollen. Again, it depends a lot on the genetic combination ability of the lines involved.
One specific case i can explain from first hand experience was with the testing and breeding of our old Zamal Hash release. We tried both ways: Zamal female pollinated by HashPlant female (reversed) and HashPlant female pollinated by Zamal female (reversed), we tested both hybrids at the same time under the same conditions and both were great but i liked the indica x sativa combination the most. This kind of experiments is better to do them through feminized reproduction so only 2 females are involved so it's easier to compare them, if you proceed with traditional breeding then you need to introduce males and 3 o 4 parental plants would be involved in the opposite hybrids and therefore is more difficult to reach to conclusions.
Why one of the opposite crosses was better than the other ? Obviously, because one had better genetic combination ability for the goals than the other one.
Why the outcome of both opposite hybrids were similar but slightly different when in both cases exactly the same 2 parental plants were involved, just changing the order of the same parental plant ?
I'm not biologist or genetist, but i think the difference has to do with the mitocondrial genetic information that only the mother passes to the offspring.
Hope it helps with your doubt
A5 Haze delivers a very strong liver leathery classic dutch Haze incense which can also be found in Killer A5 Haze. Kali China also produces very meaty incenses, but with more complex creamy and mango fruity terpenes. Panama Haze is more lemony incensey.
It's not the same kind of incense the one from old school pure tropical sativas compared with the incense of more modern hybrids and refined strains bred for these type of terpene profiles.
Oldtimer's Haze is old school, unrefined, slightly incensey, although the right Oldtimer's Haze incensey parental plants produce much louder incense profiles when they are outcrossed with other strains wth high terpene content, especially if the other strains are also incensey. So Oldtimer's Haze is old school tropical sativa incense while Kali China is new school type of incense. Haze x Kali China produces a blend of old and new school incensey terpenes, as described in the official description of the strain.
We hope to offer next year indian sativa landraces through our website.
Phrenos:
I have a cut in mother room, which when
when you burn it is pure incense! and a good taste, a great strain!
mriko:
Took 12 weeks of 12/12, superb end product, textbook haze woody-incense flavour, wonderfully uplifting from the very first hit, I love it!
Some calyxes have taken a pink/fuschia to dark purple colour (wooohooo!), I'm going to let the windows open for the next nights I guess.
I've done a little sampling of course... With unexpected results to say the least.
Last year's plant was all woods, incense and earthy flavours, top notch 2-hits wake and bake, with lots of positive and happy energy. I Think that was the Cambodian genetics from Kali Mist shining through.
This pheno here is worlds away, if not otherwordly, hehe ;p
Flavour-wise beside the woody hazy one is a dark sour lemon one with earthy notes which reminds me some nice SSSDH I grew some years ago.
This morning I lit up a doobie on my way to the bakery. I was expecting a happy cambo-kick, or something close, after a couple of hits, but nothing. Reached half the cig, still nothing, until a couple hits later some tingling starts in the head, that grows exponentially with each step and puff until totally spaced out. OMG, is that a creeper??
I haven't had that kind of material in ages, and actually, I don't think I've ever grown any creeper strain until now, this is just great if so
UniqueFlower4:
Her smell is loud incense and woody with an effect that puts you in a state of bliss.
dubi:
Purple Oldtimer's Haze hybrids like this one usually need cold temps to show colors.
Approx 80 % of the plants from this cross have the potential to do so, usually showing it in the second half of flowering.
orangina:
low nute consumption. The smell is interesting. It's a range of woody, incense, floral ending with nuances of jasmine.
The high was very nice. I find it a very kind smoke, not as trippy as many things with a Haze tag. The two GreenHaze x Bangie Haze I grew were more introspective. Although I like trippy sativas one challenge is to find the strains which remind me of my early days. The ones that trigger in you a slightly dreamy state, facilitating thoughts and talks leading to philosophical avenues. I tried it just once with a friend who tasted already several ACE-strains with me and we both agreed that is was a special smoke. After our philosophical talk we got on to our bicycles and went to a nice restaurant enjoying some nice asian fusion cuisine. Haze x KaliChina was perfect for the occasion and I would consider it a nice asian fusion smoke.
Ur Humbl Nr8tor:
My friends got a cut of my plant and his got a lot more sun on the coast, so a bit more dense. I came over tonight to play some music. He harvested much earlier than I did (along with the Panama Haze plant I gave him). Not a great dry/cure, but we had a small joint after the Panama Haze. The incense is pronounced even without a proper cure. I can't wait for mine being babied in jars. Where the Panama Haze just smells ripe of amazing old school sinsemilla, the Haze x KC was just perfumery and bright and warm.
The incense is intense. There is also a rubbery purple fruit eraser smell.
The Quijote:
Good afternoon, I couldn't resist the temptation and decided to try the haze x Kali China, I tried the tiniest fluff-type flowers, it only has 5 days of drying time, the dry smell is spicy and hashish as it dries the smell of wine disappears red, the flavor is impressive, it is pure hashish incense Asin defined it for the moment and there is no chlorophyll flavor, is it because of the lilac color of the flowers?? even though it is too early for all the flavors to be defined, the flavor is pure incensed hashish, it is very similar to those old hashishes that came to Spain with a Sputnik-type dropper or double zero crema crema, and when I smoke it it doesn't look like marijuana, it is like smoking Sputnik-type hashish and with notes of spices, this type of incense will never be I had tried, it is not Kali Mist incense or Jack Herrer and Dutch derivatives, it is still too early to make a more precise assessment, my phenotype or individual is very powerful, take 4 puffs on a joint half tobacco half small flowers and I was sweating all over forehead and head, this does not happen to me with all the varieties, which makes me think that this variety exceeds 18% tch, the joint I smoked left me high for a few hours without wanting to smoke, it is one of those varieties You take four puffs and you stay high for a few hours without finishing the joint. I loved the effect and the flavor and I insist that it is too early to make a precise assessment but I couldn't wait any longer to try it.
the smell and taste is unique incense hashish red wine sweet tropical fruit and it is not cured yet, it became my favorite delicious variety, when you smoke in a closed room and you leave the room for a few minutes and come back the smell is Mmmmm delicious pure incense of hashish and fruit and more delicious things, I do not understand how I did not know this variety long before well soon I will prepare a smoke report after a few months
Ur Humbl Nr8tor:
've now sampled the Haze x KC from my own grow. First of the Ace 2021 reports. Bong load on Saturday before playing some music and it sent me to another bands camp for about 45 minutes.
Tonight my buddy and I rolled the joint in picture. That's how much we actually smoked (or didn't) in a few hours of music around steak potatoes and red wine. 2 months cure. She goes brown in the jar quickly, maybe because of a late harvest. The high is absolutely no joke. It hits smooth as can be with a gray ash. Smell is old school hazy in the grinder, she leaves the same sort of aromas of very kind old sativa smoke. It hits your head hard. We smoked the entirety of a blueberry joint from Canada a couple of days ago. The sort of tasty warm pot you could smoke more and more of without really throttling the buzz. Haze x KC. Two puffs (or the one bong from Saturday), she comes on in a heat wave. Am I in menopause? I felt it as a flush. Sweat beads, but not going cold like some extreme hazes do. My buddy just grins and says it's an immediate head ripper. This one warms my face and then moves into my heart. Just taking another drag as I type. She's nearly right as rain at the 2 month mark. Maybe a little improvement with another few weeks in the jar. It really is a body effect into my lungs and that little bit of indica would go along way in positively effecting those accustomed to the dispensary stone. But it will still leave them anxious to be throttled.
Where she is amazing is the hits keep bringing more positive effect. Mild goes to moderate to heavy upper body euphoria. The brain is there from inception. I'm hours in from the first hits and there is no real down effects. Might not be best if I didn't plan to be up for a few more hours. One more puff…a few beers seem to be no contributing factor. She is clearly in control. After a few more hits than I took earlier, she's a real pleaser in my cerebellum. I can though, sort of see the end of her extremely positive effects in my current session. So maybe not ceiling-less, but she's going to take you just about all the way there.
Yeah, if your uncle or cousin or anyone with a few gray hairs comes over, they're going to take a whiff of the air and smile. There's no church or Frankie or anything else quite like those aromas in this particular sample, but there is an absolute bright, wood, herbal (not acrid at all) incense (like sandalwood). It is a smell of an Eastern Sierra scrub, hot fall at about 2500M. The sun beating down on the few evergreens and plants still hanging around. The effect is nearly as bright and is absolutely A++. Yield if I were to do her right in the grove would be pretty damn ridiculous. Not sure with indoors. Chunky. She's currently on top of the leaderboard this year being she's all that I've smoked from the new crops so far. Bar set high yet?
and add another puff or two. Finally wrapping up the joint to my head. Oh no, I'm not. I've had many more puffs and the joint is just turning into a resin torch. I light, inhale, exhale clouds and the joint seems no further diminished. Is it the resin kicking? The KC adds a real kind plus to that purple haze plant, dubi. Somehow makes it less introspective and more warm and social and then if it also might yield well indoors!!!
El Quijote:
hello good morning, after 7 months of curing today I present the smoke report of Haze x kali china, flowers of medium to small size quite dense,
It gives off a very fruity smell, mango, maraculla, papaya, hints of blackberries, reminiscent of some tropical smoothie, it also has a smell of species and herbs from the Mountain, with hints of red wine and barrel wood, there is a smell that it also has and shares with super malawi Haze, it is a smell of pencil wood and touches of pencil writing eraser, with hints of floral, it also smells like hashish,I also find aromas like menthol with fruity,
accompanied by incense and wood with sweet notes.
when you light the cigarette there is a lot of incense, wood, a cathedral smell and touches of topical fruit with aromas of hashish special touches of species and I also get that smell similar to super malawi haze that I mentioned before only that Haze x kali china is much more fruity and more to dark wood,
very incensed variety leaving a smell of fruity incense with hints of delicious Cathedral wood, I think it was the most incensed and fruity variety that I grow
the effect after 7 months of curing is very powerful more than I thought powerful psychedelic effect and with effects on vision such as seeing colors with more brightness, I find that to smoke in the morning it is very strong I prefer it in the afternoon or the night
long-lasting effect without tolerance you can spend all day smoking that keeps going up.
Highly recommended variety and I will repeat without a doubt I give it a 10 I do not see a fault with this variety, on the contrary, it is perfect and withstands all the bad weather that comes without problems.
AceHaze:
The leaves turned almost black in the end... I think I gave her too much bloom fertilizer at first and then she was a bit hungry in the end. The high is quite relaxing, probably from the Kali China side. Definately not your average herb and worth growing.
dubi:
"AN ALMOST PURE HAZE EXPERIENCE, IN FEMINIZED AND WITH SHORTER FLOWERING TIME
Vigorous and uniform F1 hybrid, that combines old incensey pure Haze aromas with more modern incenses from our Kali China line.
The strong Haze expression of this hybrid is almost untouched by the Kali China influence, allowing the grower to enjoy an almost pure Haze experience, in feminized format, and that finishes one month earlier than our original Oldtimer's Haze. 80 % of the plants turn purple outdoors with colder temperatures.
F1 HYBRID
FEMINIZED - ONLY FEMALE PLANTS
FLOWERING INDOORS: 12-16 WEEKS
FLOWERING OUTDOORS: NOVEMBER
YIELD / M2: AVERAGE-LOW
RESISTANCE AGAINST SPIDER MITES: AVERAGE
RESISTANCE AGAINST MILDEW: AVERAGE - HIGH
RESISTANCE AGAINST BOTRYTIS: VERY HIGH
RESISTANCE AGAINST COLD: AVERAGE - HIGH
LATITUDE: 0-45º
GENETICS: 80 % sativa / 20 % indica, but displaying an almost 100 % tropical sativa phenotype. F1 hybrid. Purple Haze x Kali China.
STRUCTURE: Tropical sativa structure with very thin leaf. Strong branching with medium and manageable node length.
BOUQUET: Mainly incense, hash and old wood. With hints that vary between tropical fruits and good red wine.
HIGH: Very hazy, psychedelic and introspective.
GROWING TIPS
It can be grown indoors without problems, although we recommend high light intensity to achieve its best potential.
Outdoors it can be grown at latitudes until 43º in a coastal climate with warm autumn. When grown in the mountains or in continental climates, it can ripen at latitudes until 35º.
We recommend low-average fertilizer levels for the whole cycle, especially Nitrogen.
----------------------------------
I just want to add that Kali China is my favourite incensey indica shaped and early flowering stabilized hybrid. Kali China aromas of incense, mango, hash, grilled meat, violets ... it's the perfect match to combine with the old school spicy, woody and incensey aromas of the Purple Haze mother 23.
As described, Haze x kali China is overall a very Purple Haze dominant feminized hybrid release. The effect is psychedelic/introspective/electric like the Purple Haze mother but with much more improved potency and improved terpene profile. Kali China adds kindness to the effect and makes it more rounded.
bombadil.360:
the taste and high were good, but nothing to write home about, did not find them psychedelic at all to be completely honest though, at least not more than your average cross.
maybe the potency was lacking due to the small container size and only 14 weeks of flowering?
mayan:
Interesting! I just this morning tried some Haze x Kali China that I had taken WAY early (about 75 days) due to it going hermie. It is wicked strong, long-lasting and the word that keeps coming to mind -prior to reading this - is "psychedelic." I would have loved to try this after 15 or so weeks of flower. But I am very happy with what I currently have - qualaity!
I got nuthin' to complain about regarding the quality. It is spectacular -even plucked early - and will provide motivational medicine that will have people running around the block backwards at double-speed for a couple of hours.
Levitationofme:
Now that the first plant has some age on it I report crisp clear hazy brain after smoking a little, lively brain activity indeed morning Beach walk material. Licorice and some type of savoryish mintness in the flavor.
dubi:
As you can compare Haze x Kali China with the 'pure' Purple Haze #23 picture i've recently posted in the Oldtimer's Haze thread, all the straight Oldtimer's Haze crosses are very Haze dominant, it doesn't matter whether you cross Oldtimer's Haze with a fast finisher like Kali China or with a longer flowering sativa, the flowering time of the straight haze cross will be always over 3 months or more.
That's why most of the so called Haze hybrids avaiable today that finish between 65-90 days of flowering time (like it's the case of Amnesia, so popular these days) have little Haze influence after all, maybe they keep the incensey smell, but the plant and flower structure and effects of these modern Haze hybrids are usually very diluted with indica genetics.
Syd Barrett:
The smell is like lavender/heavy floral/incense but very difficult to pinpoint,gotta say there are obvious similarities in aromas with the KC I also have in flower now.
ULMW:
Taking her a bit early at 12 wks. Have good amoubt of amber in trichs. Amazing blackberry smell and woody resins and oh so Hazy ! Kinda intoxicating spicy by itself when trimming.
Syd Barrett:
The smells are heavy,musky flowers with some incense ,the most recognizable smell is just...haze.Had some early tests and looks that it will be amazing on the high department,too,but I will need about a week for a proper first experience with decently dried bud.
ULMW:
Amazing blackcurrent aromas and intense hazyness all over this herb. A joy to smoke. Long lasting spacyness , little or no ceiling , smoke all day and keep getting higher.
Lovely strain and would seriously recommend all haze lovers.
Syd Barrett:
The smoke is really stinky,no stealth!The rooms stinks of incense /musk after a session.The taste is more to the red wine side of things as in your description.Very full taste with a great aftertaste. More woody KC...The effect is more rounded now after almost two months from harvest.It reminds me a bit of the queen mother ,but with a less edge .The queen mother could be more emotional/electric,this one is clearer and mind provocative.It is mentally soothing and very functional.Or at least you think that you are
The duration is good and haven't noticed a tolerance buildup,has some creeper qualities.It also comes with a no ceiling ,meaning that if you overload ,you can feel a little f*ed up .I remember feeling like driving for the second time in my life I enjoy it both at day and night ,I find different qualities.What can I say,I suck at reports but my general opinion about the effect(aren't we all here in for it anyway?) ,is that it is a very balanced ,refined,warm ,familiar ("oldschool ")kind of high.The buzz is very enjoyable .As per potency,It is not as overpowering as malawi,but I wouldn't call it weak...Stronger than the panama ,to use as a comparison.Great weed ,checks all boxes
5 months cure...
Had a mandatory tolerance break for three days...After three years ... This was the one I reached as a "safe bet". 0,2 g in the vape =2 hours + of bliss!Starts gentle for 5 mins or so.In 15 mins I was face melting lol.Introspective at first ,very warm feeling ,but is a happy pshychedelic weed for sure!For me it had the perfect strength after my abstinence.I was listening to death metal almost headbanging and 5 mins later I was dancing to the eurovision competition
dubi:
loud incense when smoked, exotic and complex taste and aftertaste, and a great powerful not dirty Haze sativa effect, with the warmness in the effect and terpene complexity that Kali China usually adds to her best hybrids, like in Thai Chi too.
Syd Barrett:
Pure orthodox church incense .Not stealthy at all .
In the vape I get mostly woody and musky tones ,not that much leather.It is a must try for you ,knowing your taste for incense
StrongTree:
Hey Dubi... she harvested on the the early side...around 12 weeks...
at harvest aroma was "hazey" with a touch of the Kalichina spice notes ( mainly fennel / anise).... upon drying and curing it is a very "old school" flavor....
....a very tasty oily type of thing....aftertaste reminds me of hash oils i obtained in Jamaica in the early mid 1990's...a greenish black grassy oil and there was a "honey oil" as well...leaves one licking their lips...
in the pipe. spliff or chillum the effect is lovely and relaxing but not a sedative..(excellent chillum plant...the "whiff whiffff whifffff" really gives off a great taste!)
the effect can be psychedelic and quite uplifting
the incense effect is also notable,,,hanging about in the air in pleasing way
i have a clone in flower 5 weeks / due to harvest early mid june ....i will do the comparisons... but as far as i can tell this plant is a heirloom keeper !
dubi:
IMO, Haze x Kali China produces an outcome (based on genetics and terpene profiles) similar to the best dutch Haze hybrids from mid 90s, but not so aggressive, the effect is psychedelic but much more kinder thanks to Kali China influence.
Xochi:
Chopped at 14 weeks, very acidic kind of smell. Reading the bio of it red wine does describe it, quite chemically.
Vapes a bit of wet bud and the high is very nice! Refreshing
Great high from this bud! Clear and uplifting! Can get things done too mentally and physically
dubi:
Hi Koondense,
It's not a silly question, it's indeed a very interesting one.
I think there's nothing special on Haze males regarding special traits or better quality effects that a good pure Haze female couldn't pass to the offspring.
The key is parental selection and on the genetic combination ability of the different lines being crossed.
The myth of Haze males passing better traits than Haze females comes from Nevil's work. Nevil could only worked extensively with 1 Haze male (male C), as he lost the only pure Haze female he managed to germinate (female B) and he also lost male A before he could produced commercial quantities with him. So at the end, most Nevil's Haze hybrids (the ones that were most widely spread and had more impact in cannabis scene) were derived from his Haze male C.
That's why many think Haze males are more special for breeding than Haze females, a statement that i don't agree (based on my personal experience breeding with Haze females and males).
Sam Skunkman, which is probably the person in the world that has bred with larger Haze populations, bred Fuma con Dios (HazexSkunk) and Fuma con Diablo (Skunk/Haze) for Flying Dutchmen in the late 90s (both were great) and other Haze hybrids, and most of the times he has used Haze females for his Haze hybrids. Must be for a good reason.
The reason is obvious, you can select the best Haze females based on their finished product, but you can only judge the quality of a Haze male based on its offspring (or more rarely by reversing the males, a process that very few breeders do), and in both cases the final proof is always on the testing of the offspring (whether a Haze female or a Haze male is used to produce the hybrids).
At ACE Seeds (with the help of charlie garcia from Cannabiogen) we managed to germinate 40-60 original Haze seeds from Oldtimer (and after that many dozens more from subsequent generations), so we have had much more Haze genetic diversity to explore and to breed with (both on the female and the male side) that Nevil had.
I did select Green Haze #19 and Purple Haze #23 parental plants as the best females from each main pheno. I'm sure better Oldtimer's Haze parental plants can be found if you select through hundreds or thousands of plants, but unfortunately i have never had the chance to go so far and deep with the line, yet i'm very happy with the offspring that these 2 Haze female parental plants produce, both within Oldtimer's Haze line and in outcrosses like Panama Haze, Haze x Kali China, Purple Haze x Malawi, or in our Haze x Thai or Haze x Honduras series. We also released a Nepal Haze strain which was a Nepal highland female crossed with a Haze male, and it was great as well. But as you may know, i have focused my work with Oldtimer's Haze (and its hybrids) mainly on these 2 Haze females.
Your second question is different, but equally interesting. What's the different between making a cross with a female from line A crossed with a male from line B vs a cross of a female from line B pollinated by a male from line A ? That's a different history, and to reach to conclusions both different lines must be as much as inbred as possible, if you are playing with polyhybrids you will be lost in filial polyhybrid segregation and you won't reach to any conclusion.
DJ Short commented in his book (and in some posts in the forums) that he had much more success to create his blue lines by pollinating a pure sativa with indica pollen rather than with the indica x sativa cross, in both cases using same lines. Well, it could be true in the case of the lines he was breeding with, but that statement can not be generalized for all the cases. In fact, me and other breeders have experienced better results in certain cases by pollinating indicas with sativa pollen. Again, it depends a lot on the genetic combination ability of the lines involved.
One specific case i can explain from first hand experience was with the testing and breeding of our old Zamal Hash release. We tried both ways: Zamal female pollinated by HashPlant female (reversed) and HashPlant female pollinated by Zamal female (reversed), we tested both hybrids at the same time under the same conditions and both were great but i liked the indica x sativa combination the most. This kind of experiments is better to do them through feminized reproduction so only 2 females are involved so it's easier to compare them, if you proceed with traditional breeding then you need to introduce males and 3 o 4 parental plants would be involved in the opposite hybrids and therefore is more difficult to reach to conclusions.
Why one of the opposite crosses was better than the other ? Obviously, because one had better genetic combination ability for the goals than the other one.
Why the outcome of both opposite hybrids were similar but slightly different when in both cases exactly the same 2 parental plants were involved, just changing the order of the same parental plant ?
I'm not biologist or genetist, but i think the difference has to do with the mitocondrial genetic information that only the mother passes to the offspring.
Hope it helps with your doubt
A5 Haze delivers a very strong liver leathery classic dutch Haze incense which can also be found in Killer A5 Haze. Kali China also produces very meaty incenses, but with more complex creamy and mango fruity terpenes. Panama Haze is more lemony incensey.
It's not the same kind of incense the one from old school pure tropical sativas compared with the incense of more modern hybrids and refined strains bred for these type of terpene profiles.
Oldtimer's Haze is old school, unrefined, slightly incensey, although the right Oldtimer's Haze incensey parental plants produce much louder incense profiles when they are outcrossed with other strains wth high terpene content, especially if the other strains are also incensey. So Oldtimer's Haze is old school tropical sativa incense while Kali China is new school type of incense. Haze x Kali China produces a blend of old and new school incensey terpenes, as described in the official description of the strain.
We hope to offer next year indian sativa landraces through our website.
Phrenos:
I have a cut in mother room, which when
when you burn it is pure incense! and a good taste, a great strain!
mriko:
Took 12 weeks of 12/12, superb end product, textbook haze woody-incense flavour, wonderfully uplifting from the very first hit, I love it!
Some calyxes have taken a pink/fuschia to dark purple colour (wooohooo!), I'm going to let the windows open for the next nights I guess.
I've done a little sampling of course... With unexpected results to say the least.
Last year's plant was all woods, incense and earthy flavours, top notch 2-hits wake and bake, with lots of positive and happy energy. I Think that was the Cambodian genetics from Kali Mist shining through.
This pheno here is worlds away, if not otherwordly, hehe ;p
Flavour-wise beside the woody hazy one is a dark sour lemon one with earthy notes which reminds me some nice SSSDH I grew some years ago.
This morning I lit up a doobie on my way to the bakery. I was expecting a happy cambo-kick, or something close, after a couple of hits, but nothing. Reached half the cig, still nothing, until a couple hits later some tingling starts in the head, that grows exponentially with each step and puff until totally spaced out. OMG, is that a creeper??
I haven't had that kind of material in ages, and actually, I don't think I've ever grown any creeper strain until now, this is just great if so
UniqueFlower4:
Her smell is loud incense and woody with an effect that puts you in a state of bliss.
dubi:
Purple Oldtimer's Haze hybrids like this one usually need cold temps to show colors.
Approx 80 % of the plants from this cross have the potential to do so, usually showing it in the second half of flowering.
orangina:
low nute consumption. The smell is interesting. It's a range of woody, incense, floral ending with nuances of jasmine.
The high was very nice. I find it a very kind smoke, not as trippy as many things with a Haze tag. The two GreenHaze x Bangie Haze I grew were more introspective. Although I like trippy sativas one challenge is to find the strains which remind me of my early days. The ones that trigger in you a slightly dreamy state, facilitating thoughts and talks leading to philosophical avenues. I tried it just once with a friend who tasted already several ACE-strains with me and we both agreed that is was a special smoke. After our philosophical talk we got on to our bicycles and went to a nice restaurant enjoying some nice asian fusion cuisine. Haze x KaliChina was perfect for the occasion and I would consider it a nice asian fusion smoke.
Ur Humbl Nr8tor:
My friends got a cut of my plant and his got a lot more sun on the coast, so a bit more dense. I came over tonight to play some music. He harvested much earlier than I did (along with the Panama Haze plant I gave him). Not a great dry/cure, but we had a small joint after the Panama Haze. The incense is pronounced even without a proper cure. I can't wait for mine being babied in jars. Where the Panama Haze just smells ripe of amazing old school sinsemilla, the Haze x KC was just perfumery and bright and warm.
The incense is intense. There is also a rubbery purple fruit eraser smell.
The Quijote:
Good afternoon, I couldn't resist the temptation and decided to try the haze x Kali China, I tried the tiniest fluff-type flowers, it only has 5 days of drying time, the dry smell is spicy and hashish as it dries the smell of wine disappears red, the flavor is impressive, it is pure hashish incense Asin defined it for the moment and there is no chlorophyll flavor, is it because of the lilac color of the flowers?? even though it is too early for all the flavors to be defined, the flavor is pure incensed hashish, it is very similar to those old hashishes that came to Spain with a Sputnik-type dropper or double zero crema crema, and when I smoke it it doesn't look like marijuana, it is like smoking Sputnik-type hashish and with notes of spices, this type of incense will never be I had tried, it is not Kali Mist incense or Jack Herrer and Dutch derivatives, it is still too early to make a more precise assessment, my phenotype or individual is very powerful, take 4 puffs on a joint half tobacco half small flowers and I was sweating all over forehead and head, this does not happen to me with all the varieties, which makes me think that this variety exceeds 18% tch, the joint I smoked left me high for a few hours without wanting to smoke, it is one of those varieties You take four puffs and you stay high for a few hours without finishing the joint. I loved the effect and the flavor and I insist that it is too early to make a precise assessment but I couldn't wait any longer to try it.
the smell and taste is unique incense hashish red wine sweet tropical fruit and it is not cured yet, it became my favorite delicious variety, when you smoke in a closed room and you leave the room for a few minutes and come back the smell is Mmmmm delicious pure incense of hashish and fruit and more delicious things, I do not understand how I did not know this variety long before well soon I will prepare a smoke report after a few months
Ur Humbl Nr8tor:
've now sampled the Haze x KC from my own grow. First of the Ace 2021 reports. Bong load on Saturday before playing some music and it sent me to another bands camp for about 45 minutes.
Tonight my buddy and I rolled the joint in picture. That's how much we actually smoked (or didn't) in a few hours of music around steak potatoes and red wine. 2 months cure. She goes brown in the jar quickly, maybe because of a late harvest. The high is absolutely no joke. It hits smooth as can be with a gray ash. Smell is old school hazy in the grinder, she leaves the same sort of aromas of very kind old sativa smoke. It hits your head hard. We smoked the entirety of a blueberry joint from Canada a couple of days ago. The sort of tasty warm pot you could smoke more and more of without really throttling the buzz. Haze x KC. Two puffs (or the one bong from Saturday), she comes on in a heat wave. Am I in menopause? I felt it as a flush. Sweat beads, but not going cold like some extreme hazes do. My buddy just grins and says it's an immediate head ripper. This one warms my face and then moves into my heart. Just taking another drag as I type. She's nearly right as rain at the 2 month mark. Maybe a little improvement with another few weeks in the jar. It really is a body effect into my lungs and that little bit of indica would go along way in positively effecting those accustomed to the dispensary stone. But it will still leave them anxious to be throttled.
Where she is amazing is the hits keep bringing more positive effect. Mild goes to moderate to heavy upper body euphoria. The brain is there from inception. I'm hours in from the first hits and there is no real down effects. Might not be best if I didn't plan to be up for a few more hours. One more puff…a few beers seem to be no contributing factor. She is clearly in control. After a few more hits than I took earlier, she's a real pleaser in my cerebellum. I can though, sort of see the end of her extremely positive effects in my current session. So maybe not ceiling-less, but she's going to take you just about all the way there.
Yeah, if your uncle or cousin or anyone with a few gray hairs comes over, they're going to take a whiff of the air and smile. There's no church or Frankie or anything else quite like those aromas in this particular sample, but there is an absolute bright, wood, herbal (not acrid at all) incense (like sandalwood). It is a smell of an Eastern Sierra scrub, hot fall at about 2500M. The sun beating down on the few evergreens and plants still hanging around. The effect is nearly as bright and is absolutely A++. Yield if I were to do her right in the grove would be pretty damn ridiculous. Not sure with indoors. Chunky. She's currently on top of the leaderboard this year being she's all that I've smoked from the new crops so far. Bar set high yet?
and add another puff or two. Finally wrapping up the joint to my head. Oh no, I'm not. I've had many more puffs and the joint is just turning into a resin torch. I light, inhale, exhale clouds and the joint seems no further diminished. Is it the resin kicking? The KC adds a real kind plus to that purple haze plant, dubi. Somehow makes it less introspective and more warm and social and then if it also might yield well indoors!!!
El Quijote:
hello good morning, after 7 months of curing today I present the smoke report of Haze x kali china, flowers of medium to small size quite dense,
It gives off a very fruity smell, mango, maraculla, papaya, hints of blackberries, reminiscent of some tropical smoothie, it also has a smell of species and herbs from the Mountain, with hints of red wine and barrel wood, there is a smell that it also has and shares with super malawi Haze, it is a smell of pencil wood and touches of pencil writing eraser, with hints of floral, it also smells like hashish,I also find aromas like menthol with fruity,
accompanied by incense and wood with sweet notes.
when you light the cigarette there is a lot of incense, wood, a cathedral smell and touches of topical fruit with aromas of hashish special touches of species and I also get that smell similar to super malawi haze that I mentioned before only that Haze x kali china is much more fruity and more to dark wood,
very incensed variety leaving a smell of fruity incense with hints of delicious Cathedral wood, I think it was the most incensed and fruity variety that I grow
the effect after 7 months of curing is very powerful more than I thought powerful psychedelic effect and with effects on vision such as seeing colors with more brightness, I find that to smoke in the morning it is very strong I prefer it in the afternoon or the night
long-lasting effect without tolerance you can spend all day smoking that keeps going up.Highly recommended variety and I will repeat without a doubt I give it a 10 I do not see a fault with this variety, on the contrary, it is perfect and withstands all the bad weather that comes without problems.
AceHaze:
The leaves turned almost black in the end... I think I gave her too much bloom fertilizer at first and then she was a bit hungry in the end. The high is quite relaxing, probably from the Kali China side. Definately not your average herb and worth growing.
can't thank to all our friends enough for compilating the smoke reports for each ACE strain. We should create a room for them, so it's easier to access them.
