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Hard water problem
- Thread starter linksys
- Start date
hard water fix/ Ro water
hard water fix/ Ro water
hey linksys i had this problem at one of my grows in uk 8kw flood rain in hydroton 6''pots.
Are you running hydro or soil or what?
what is the cf of your raw water ?
Also would help me to give best advice if you had nutrient analysis of raw tap water.
A basic answer i yes you can use R/o water.
also use a hard water feed thats acidic ie the enire phosphorus content is
phosphoric acid and ph down with nitric acid.
use the same percentage R/o water every time.
Give me the answers to my questions.
And we can work it out a solution.
sincerley Andyo
hard water fix/ Ro water
hey linksys i had this problem at one of my grows in uk 8kw flood rain in hydroton 6''pots.
Are you running hydro or soil or what?
what is the cf of your raw water ?
Also would help me to give best advice if you had nutrient analysis of raw tap water.
A basic answer i yes you can use R/o water.
also use a hard water feed thats acidic ie the enire phosphorus content is
phosphoric acid and ph down with nitric acid.
use the same percentage R/o water every time.
Give me the answers to my questions.
And we can work it out a solution.
sincerley Andyo
its soil... right now i don't have test strips i need to go buy some... but the last time i checked it was (this was before it started to give me problems):
Nitrate - 10 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Hardness - 120 ppm
Buffering - 100 ppm
pH - 7.0
this test was taken with Mardel Labs test strips.
Soil - 50% FFOF, 25% vermiculite, and 25% big & chunky perlite
i use FF big grow, big bloom, and tiger bloom (i don't start feeding until the girls tell me they are hungry)
ive been using distilled water and it has made everything much much much better, but at 1 buck a gallon it takes a toll on ya... and right now i don't want to spend 150+ for a RO unit... so i was thinking to get a small cheap $20 filter and see what that can do for me
Nitrate - 10 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Hardness - 120 ppm
Buffering - 100 ppm
pH - 7.0
this test was taken with Mardel Labs test strips.
Soil - 50% FFOF, 25% vermiculite, and 25% big & chunky perlite
i use FF big grow, big bloom, and tiger bloom (i don't start feeding until the girls tell me they are hungry)
ive been using distilled water and it has made everything much much much better, but at 1 buck a gallon it takes a toll on ya... and right now i don't want to spend 150+ for a RO unit... so i was thinking to get a small cheap $20 filter and see what that can do for me
that was exactly what i was thinking... distilling takes a long time tho and might not be economical unless your burning wood lol... ill have to get a test kit soon and test the water now to see where im at... all i know is when i used it the past month or so i would get calcium built up on top of the soil and kill my seedlings... thanks for the help bro
water companys switch source and change chemistry
water companys switch source and change chemistry
Water companys are notorious for fuck ups.
on 24 kw site had soft water moved there specialy i had to totaly different water types depending on time of year.So using the address of a sound legit friend on same spply i wrote and emailed the water company exsplaining i kept a large amount of tropical fish,and had had some problems involving water quality.They exsplained they topped up resivoir from river during dry periods of the year and promised to in form me of any extra chlorine dosing.
The other problem you may be having is perlite tends to assimilate phosphorus.So what acid are you using to ph down it should be nitric not phosphric.This is the most common cause of problems for pots.
Are you measuring the ph of very last few drips from your pots after a flush ie 1 hr after tilt 45 deg and get last few drips drain of check ph i suspect t may be climbing to high
Andy o.
water companys switch source and change chemistry
Water companys are notorious for fuck ups.
on 24 kw site had soft water moved there specialy i had to totaly different water types depending on time of year.So using the address of a sound legit friend on same spply i wrote and emailed the water company exsplaining i kept a large amount of tropical fish,and had had some problems involving water quality.They exsplained they topped up resivoir from river during dry periods of the year and promised to in form me of any extra chlorine dosing.
The other problem you may be having is perlite tends to assimilate phosphorus.So what acid are you using to ph down it should be nitric not phosphric.This is the most common cause of problems for pots.
Are you measuring the ph of very last few drips from your pots after a flush ie 1 hr after tilt 45 deg and get last few drips drain of check ph i suspect t may be climbing to high
Andy o.
i know my mixture is fine because ive used it plenty of times with no problem its just my tap water pH... its at 7.6-8.0 right now... it use to be at 6.6 - 7.0, so i didn't have to use pH down, i add the FF nutes and it brought it down to where i wanted it.. and the distilled water is right at 6.0
lol also all my fish tanks have suffered because of my tap water change
lol also all my fish tanks have suffered because of my tap water change
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G
Guest
hard water can really fudge up your program...keep your tds meter in check by calibrating it every month.
By $20 dollar filter do you mean one of those britta things? Ive tested the tds from those at a friends and they dont seem to filter much of anything. The 4-5 stage ro units drop that down to about 10 ppms or so. Worth every penny when you dont have to compensate for high levels of calcium and magnesium in hard water.
You never really specified what your problem was. High EC?
As you seem to know, hard water is not a problem. The proper definition of 'hard' is water containing high ratios of calcium and magnesium. Both are substances as precious to the plant as macronutrients. A high EC is generally bad for growing. Salts, agricultural pollution, industrial pollution, additives like Calcium Carbonate. Your plants never take off, your grow is constantly hampered with problems.
Reverse Osmosis filtering is the best way to filter, because it leaves you with a very pure water, and since no polluants play tricks with your ph, it's easy to stabilize.
The BRITA filters are designed to filter certain things frequently present in tapwater, such as chlorine (actually good for your plants in most tapwater doses), heavy metals, agricultural pesticides etc. It's hard to say exactly what they filter, and how much of it depends on the ratios. I think it takes out most of the calcium, but leaves most of the magnesium (it needs to be verified though). If your water has a very high EC, it will take it down some but not completely.
In the end, it's really the plants that decide what's good for them or not.
Demand a water analysis from the local water department, they're obliged by law to give you that information, or simply call them up and ask if there's something about the water you should know.
If you have a BRITA filter around, try it, and see how your plants react. Between the two though, you're probably better off with an r/o unit.
As you seem to know, hard water is not a problem. The proper definition of 'hard' is water containing high ratios of calcium and magnesium. Both are substances as precious to the plant as macronutrients. A high EC is generally bad for growing. Salts, agricultural pollution, industrial pollution, additives like Calcium Carbonate. Your plants never take off, your grow is constantly hampered with problems.
Reverse Osmosis filtering is the best way to filter, because it leaves you with a very pure water, and since no polluants play tricks with your ph, it's easy to stabilize.
The BRITA filters are designed to filter certain things frequently present in tapwater, such as chlorine (actually good for your plants in most tapwater doses), heavy metals, agricultural pesticides etc. It's hard to say exactly what they filter, and how much of it depends on the ratios. I think it takes out most of the calcium, but leaves most of the magnesium (it needs to be verified though). If your water has a very high EC, it will take it down some but not completely.
In the end, it's really the plants that decide what's good for them or not.
Demand a water analysis from the local water department, they're obliged by law to give you that information, or simply call them up and ask if there's something about the water you should know.
If you have a BRITA filter around, try it, and see how your plants react. Between the two though, you're probably better off with an r/o unit.
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Rosy Cheeks - thanks bro that was a lot of help.... ill call my water company and make them give me the results.... but im still going to order an EC and TDS meter, any suggestions?
http://cgi.ebay.com/EC-CF-TDS-3-in-...ryZ42291QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
^ any good?
http://cgi.ebay.com/EC-CF-TDS-3-in-...ryZ42291QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
^ any good?
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A Chinese EC/TDS meter for $34.90? Who can say? If it sucks, what are you going to do? Ship it back to Hong Kong for a refund? My advice to you is to get a quality meter from a known manufacturer, with a warranty. You'll have to spend a bit more, but in the long run it's worth it.
My personal preference is the long-stick type of meter. If your reservoir is on the floor, you don't have to go down on your knees to take measurements (it gets annoying after a while), and you don't have to stick your nose next to the LCD screen to see the readings (if you run HPS light, it can be difficult), because the readings are lit up and can be seen from afar.
The best meters of this kind is the Blue lab Truncheon, and the Saltesta EC meter (I have both, and I prefer the Saltesta, but most people prefer the Truncheon):
http://www.allamericanhydro.com/product_details.php?id=382
http://www.hydroponic-shop.com/product_info.php?products_id=109
And make sure it reads EC and not ppm. Ppm is simply a reconversion of EC (which gives you a less accurate indication of salt concentration in the solution). What more is, different ppm meter manufacturers use different conversion scales, so when growers post their ppm:s without specifying what conversion scale they're using (which is generally the case), it could be one or the other.
If we all talked EC, things would be easier.
My personal preference is the long-stick type of meter. If your reservoir is on the floor, you don't have to go down on your knees to take measurements (it gets annoying after a while), and you don't have to stick your nose next to the LCD screen to see the readings (if you run HPS light, it can be difficult), because the readings are lit up and can be seen from afar.
The best meters of this kind is the Blue lab Truncheon, and the Saltesta EC meter (I have both, and I prefer the Saltesta, but most people prefer the Truncheon):
http://www.allamericanhydro.com/product_details.php?id=382
http://www.hydroponic-shop.com/product_info.php?products_id=109
And make sure it reads EC and not ppm. Ppm is simply a reconversion of EC (which gives you a less accurate indication of salt concentration in the solution). What more is, different ppm meter manufacturers use different conversion scales, so when growers post their ppm:s without specifying what conversion scale they're using (which is generally the case), it could be one or the other.
If we all talked EC, things would be easier.
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G
Guest
Well if your running GH nutes they make a hard water micro that helps out with that.
Ono Nadagin
Active member
you can use reg ro water and mix a bit of tap water back in with it rather than using calmag... never done it myself but there are several on this forum that do... You can also use Sweet rather than Calmag+
A good ro filter is about $100 thats a cheap price for knowing 100% what your feeding your plants... takes a lot of the guess work out of diagnosis of iany issues that arise
A good ro filter is about $100 thats a cheap price for knowing 100% what your feeding your plants... takes a lot of the guess work out of diagnosis of iany issues that arise
RO systems are not that expensive and are definitely your best and safest bet for your water source.
If you live in so cal, you have the benefit of being able to go directly to one of several manufacturers where you can find a 5 stage RO for as low as $88. Theres a price drop the more you purchase. If you buy 5, theres a price break. another at 10 not that most people would need that many, but some of the mersh growers might.
Do not waste your money on any of the screw on faucet filters, they filter very little other than chlorine and do not remove total dissolved solids (TDS). TDS is measured in EC or ppm. the only thing that can remove TDS is an RO or distillation.
If you live in so cal, you have the benefit of being able to go directly to one of several manufacturers where you can find a 5 stage RO for as low as $88. Theres a price drop the more you purchase. If you buy 5, theres a price break. another at 10 not that most people would need that many, but some of the mersh growers might.
Do not waste your money on any of the screw on faucet filters, they filter very little other than chlorine and do not remove total dissolved solids (TDS). TDS is measured in EC or ppm. the only thing that can remove TDS is an RO or distillation.
G
Guest
Don't know if you guys have seen this thread but i got one yesterday and this is the PH difference to my water.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55810
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55810
hmmm i want to give that a try... so ive been buying r/o water for awhile and it sucks i really want to try and fix my tap water if possible... I bought a GH and KH test kit... GH = 161.1ppm, KH = 89.5ppm, and PH = 7.4... where should my GH and KH levels be? I know i will have to bring down my PH to 6.5.... any help would be great... thanks!
