Habeus Corpus

[Guest]

Do you have to have a body to convict someone of murder?

Omaha, NE - Testimony is expected later today in the Chris Edwards murder trial. A jury was finally picked on Wednesday after two and a half days of questioning. Edwards is accused of killing his pregnant girlfriend, Jessica O'Grady. The UNO student's body has never been found. During opening statements on Wednesday, prosecutors said Edwards killed O'Grady with a Bangkok battle sword in his bedroom. They say they have the DNA evidence to prove it. In opening statements, prosecutor Leigh Ann Retelsdorf told jurors that when crime scene investigators went through Edwards' bedroom, they found Jessica's blood everywhere. She says there was blood on the ceiling, walls, headboard, TV, bookcase, clock, candle and picture frame. Edwards' attorney, Steve Lefler says there is not one doctor that can tell you that O'Grady is dead or that she didn't have a miscarriage. There is no word on if Edwards will take the stand in his own defense. If he does, he'll be one of about 75 witnesses to testify. On Thursday, O'Grady's aunt, Shauna Stanzel, is expected to be the first on the stand. She may be followed by O'Grady's roommates.

They haven't found her body but they did find enough of her blood in his room to assume that if she didn't go directly to a hospital then she died. I couldn't find a more detailed account of the crime as everything is now focused on jury and testimonys.

J.

 

[nycdfan042]

wow thats a tough one i never even heared about this one, proly for good reason. What about a polygraph?

 

[Nikijad4210]

This is where shit gets iffy for me. Too many innocent folks have been convicted of crimes they didn't commit this way.

 

[GMT]

common misconception is that the rules of Habeus Corpus (if that's how you spell it) mean that you need to have a body to prove the crime, or the physical evidence. All it actually means is that you need to have physical evidence, and a victim. The blood for instance if it couldn't be linked to a person, and no one was missing is not evidence of anything due to habeus corpus, but when you have a missing person, whose been identified as the owner of the blood, and a link to the suspect other than the blood, I don't think the habeus corpus rule will apply.

 

[bartender187]

What does this have to do with Habeous Corpus? Now... if they did not let him file a writ challenging the reasons for his detention... then I can see the connection... They have more than enough evidence to hold and posssibly even convict him... You dont need a body to win a murder case... although it sure is key in proving the crime in question was comitted.

peace,
bartender187

 

[Guest]

i always thought habeas corpus meant the right to have a trial...

 

[Guest]

ok, GMT you're right:

habeas:

hab.eas V 2 1 PRES ACTIVE SUB 2 S
habeo, habere, habui, habitus V [XXXAX]
have, hold, consider, think, reason; manage, keep; spend/pass (time);

corpus:

corpus N 3 2 NOM S N
corpus N 3 2 VOC S N
corpus N 3 2 ACC S N
corpus, corporis N N [XXXAO]
body; person, self; virility; flesh; corpse; trunk; frame(work); collection/sum;
substantial/material/concrete object/body; particle/atom; corporation, guild;

Now, I haven't seen evidence for myself but as I understand it, her blood was matched to that found covering almost everything in his room; including the Bangkok swords. He had attempted to wash the room but had done a very poor job. He had also tried to destroy the mattress and boxspring by cutting/shredding that as well with the swords.
I think he's done for! The problem with a jury of your peers is that they don't necessarily need to prove you did it to know that you did it. Jury trial allows for human nature to dictate an outcome rather than straightforward rules. How many times in life have you known that someone did something without having seen them do it? A jury can convict you because they know you are guilty even if defense does a better job than prosecution.

J.

EDIT: Gelatinous, think Marine Corps to remember what it means. Thats how I remembered when I learned it when I was young.

 

[Guest]

What does this have to do with Habeous Corpus? Now... if they did not let him file a writ challenging the reasons for his detention...

Bingo...

HC literally means show me the body, but it isn't the body being discussed here.

It's a writ the lawyer issues to be given confirmation of charges, and access to, his client. It's given to the authorities.

Or so I thought...

ws

 

[Guest]

Habeas corpus...I still don't get how it relates to this particular discussion we're having about this particular case....

 

[Guest]

because her body hasn't been found and while HC doesn't technically mean that you must have a body it is typically the focal point of a murder trial. Things aren't usually as smooth as CSI (the shows). The body is what often connects the victim with the suspect and often times a bodyless crime goes unprosecuted or reduced for lack of the very thing which is suposedly victimized.

J.

 

[bartender187]

All HC states is... Hey Government PROVE to me that you have the right to detain me....

All the govt would have to do is,,, "hey look we found blood all over your room... and this girl is missing." That is more than enough to hold someone on... They have enough evidence to file charges, whether or not to secure a conviction is for the jury to decide.

 

[NiteTiger]

The phrase you're wanting is Corpus Delicti, the body of the crime. The literal body.

To answer your question, yes, they can convict without the body. They can prove from the blood spatter and locations that it wasn't a miscarriage, and the amount of blood will tell them if the person could have survived.