Grow tent and questions about, carbon filter, fan and lights.

[Howard Marks]

Hello

I have two grows under my belt, wonderful ones with good results but that was a few years back when space wasn't a problem for me.

Now that i have moved into an apartment i dont have anymore the luxury to grow something without being cautious about odor and sutff.

Im contemplating in buying a grow tent, a 1.2m x 1.2m x 2m sized one.

My first question rose about the the temperatures that i will get in such a tent. I will use a 400W HID and the tent will stay in a room with temperatures up to 24 Celsius degrees.
Will my tent do get to hot? Will i need to buy an air cooled reflector or just the extractor fan will do its job and keep the tent cool?

And now for the size of the carbon filter and the extractor fan. I know that i need to multiply my tent size to get the total cubic meters but then? Do i need to multiply it again? Al i got is a 2.88 cubic meters for the tent i want to buy, this need to be multiplied with 60 perhaps? So in one hour to exchange the air 60 times?

What fan size? I read about that the fan its not good to be more powerful than the carbon filter can take but there is any problem if the filter is much bigger than the fan rating?

Can anyone help me please with this numbers? What size/ratings i need on a filter and a fan for the tent i mentioned?

And last but not least, do this carbon filter really do the job? If i will have guests over the place will they be able to sense anything? Im planing to grow 4 plants in 20 liter pots in that tent.

Thanks anticipated for your help guys!

 

[GoatCheese]

Hey amigo..
Here's my reply to our PM convo as you asked. I mention this so that others wont be confused by my reply


Afghan Kush vs Ketama
I have read that WOS's Ketama has some semi auto-flowering traits in the line which is apparently quite usual for Moroc and Lebanese genetics. I have few packs of these but haven't grown any yet. I'm sure Afghan Kush is more indoor friendly and also more stoney indica.

Landrace genetics, like Afghan Kush don't usually need as much nutrients as worked western indoor hybrids, so go easy with the nutrients. For the Afghan Kush, maybe the nute strenght with BioBizz around the same as in the feeding schedule i wrote down = medium feeding strength, i would call it.
That feeding schedule, quit possibly, may need some fine tuning as i mentioned, but i'd try similar nute strength for the Afghan Kush.
::::::::::::

Tent size:
Like i mentioned in the PM i have tent set up for a 250w HPS. I have grown with a 400w HPS in a tent some years ago but never with a 600w or bigger.

Usually a 1mx1mx2m tent for 400w which is a minimum for a 600w HPS. Most likely you'd need a cool tube or something similar for these lights esp. with the 600w.

Yea, that Hygro Mars brand looks ok enough. Appears to be very similar in quality to Segret Jardin and Silver Box from what i cna see from internet photos.

Ventilation for your 400w HPS/HID set
For a 400w HPS you'll need ventilation system that is:

- Inline fan about 350 cubic m/hour. In more expensive models you can dial in the speed.

- Carbon filter is always little larger so about 400 cubic m/hour. (if the filter is too small it will make noise)

- Duct connection for 125 mm duct hose

For a 600w HPS you'll need bigger ventilation set.
Check out grow shop for light + ventilation sets and grow tent sets to get an idea what sized tent for which sized HPS.

If noise is an issue:
Inline fan + normal aluminium duct hose wont be very quiet, but you can significantly reduce noise if you buy insulated duct. Costs more but it's much more quiet. It's also much more durable than the thin Alu foil duct (small holes start to appear in time), so you'll get better bang for your money, imo.

CoolTube Set Up in a tent:
Some air cooled reflectors operate like cool tubes (like Prima Klima's Spudnik), they just have better reflectors. Cool tubes sure haven't got the best reflectors.

The inline is made to SUCK thru the carbon filter infront of the cool tube/air cooled reflector = BLOWS air thru the cool tube/reflector and then out of the tent.

This way hot air wont move thru the inline fan and it will last longer cause it wont heat up so much. Some times you 'll have to do it the other way around = warm/hot air thru the inline fan, but that's how it is sometimes.


In early flower, when they plants wont stink so much yet, the ventilation (carbon filter) run can run only when the light is on, but when the buds and resins starts to form, you'll need to run it 24h. Also so that buds wont start to mold.
You'll also need a small (15-20 cm diameter) clip fan inside the tent to create air movement which should run 24h at all times.

Get it done and have fun!

 

[Howard Marks]

Hola mi amigo estimado

Thanks you so much for your help and info given to me this days!!

 

[Speed of green]

You can maintain ambient air temp with 2x exchanges per minute.

so if you had a 3m3 tent you would aim for a fan/filter combo capable of 6m3 per minute.

 

[gaiusmarius]

great post by GoatCheese.

i would add that going a good 25% over capacity with ventilation and filter size and running it slowed down is good for noise reduction and so you can up the power for trimming or if it gets really hot in summer. you can also reduce noise a lot by running your ventilation at half or even a third of the full speed under normal conditions, this means you need to over size the whole ventilation set up, the wider your ducts the less noise it will make too. but you have to work with the tent duct hole size in the end. also means buying a good controller for the ventilation. some of them will keep temps steady for you as much as pos, this can be handy, it will go to the lowest setting when the lights are off and turn up when they are running. the new digital ventilators even have these controllers built in or easy to hook up anyway. so depending how much noise is an issue you might want to consider these things too.

the one problem with turning ventilation off at night is that the underpressure is lost from the tent, so all the smells can slowly seep out and spread around. even vegging plants will smell a bit, so it's really best to have your ventilation on full time, just reduced speed during lights off.

 

[Howard Marks]

If noise is an issue:
Inline fan + normal aluminium duct hose wont be very quiet, but you can significantly reduce noise if you buy insulated duct. Costs more but it's much more quiet. It's also much more durable than the thin Alu foil duct (small holes start to appear in time), so you'll get better bang for your money, imo.

CoolTube Set Up in a tent:
Some air cooled reflectors operate like cool tubes (like Prima Klima's Spudnik), they just have better reflectors. Cool tubes sure haven't got the best reflectors.

I never heard how much noise an inline fan of that power can make but if it can get loud this could be an issue too.
I will take in consideration the insulated ducts and i seen some insulated wood boxes where you can put the inline fan for additional silencing.
Dunno how good they are but i will make some further research about them.

Exactly the air cooled Prima Klima Sputnik reflector is what caught my attention. I seen it on a local web shop. Do you have it or had it? Is the gasket good, air tight, hermetically closed?

You can maintain ambient air temp with 2x exchanges per minute.

so if you had a 3m3 tent you would aim for a fan/filter combo capable of 6m3 per minute.

Yeah but at that force maybe the tent it will be sucked in!

great post by GoatCheese.

i would add that going a good 25% over capacity with ventilation and filter size and running it slowed down is good for noise reduction and so you can up the power for trimming or if it gets really hot in summer. you can also reduce noise a lot by running your ventilation at half or even a third of the full speed under normal conditions, this means you need to over size the whole ventilation set up, the wider your ducts the less noise it will make too. but you have to work with the tent duct hole size in the end. also means buying a good controller for the ventilation. some of them will keep temps steady for you as much as pos, this can be handy, it will go to the lowest setting when the lights are off and turn up when they are running. the new digital ventilators even have these controllers built in or easy to hook up anyway. so depending how much noise is an issue you might want to consider these things too.

the one problem with turning ventilation off at night is that the underpressure is lost from the tent, so all the smells can slowly seep out and spread around. even vegging plants will smell a bit, so it's really best to have your ventilation on full time, just reduced speed during lights off.

Thanks, i will take in consideration every tip you gave me guys, you were of a lot of help and i really appreciate it!

 

[GoatCheese]

I never heard how much noise an inline fan of that power can make but if it can get loud this could be an issue too.
I will take in consideration the insulated ducts and i seen some insulated wood boxes where you can put the inline fan for additional silencing.
Dunno how good they are but i will make some further research about them.

Exactly the air cooled Prima Klima Sputnik reflector is what caught my attention. I seen it on a local web shop. Do you have it or had it? Is the gasket good, air tight, hermetically closed?

Well, the inline fan itself isn't the biggest noise maker and you can't call it "loud", but most noise comes from the air blowing thru the duct hose, and you can significantly reduce this noise by using insulated duct.
I'd say the insulated duct is a must, but like i wrote earlier, it's more durable than the thin Alu duct, so you should buy the insulated duct hose in any case, imo.
-
-
No i haven't got any air cooled reflectors, only a cool tube, but that Prima Klima reflector looks good to me.
Prima Klima also makes inline fans that have built-in speed conroller, so you might wanna look one of those up. Those cost a little more, but might be useful if you feel you have to dial in the ventilation

 

[gaiusmarius]

totally agree the insulated ducting is essential if you care about noise. my points were to be considered on top of using insulated ducts, you can also get noise reducing mufflers for the ventilation system, but you probably won't need to go that far if you already have insulated ducts.

 

[Howard Marks]

Yeah i do care about noise. @GoatCheese i checked the Prima Klima inline fans, the new generation of their fans with temperature and speed control are super but in my country they kinda expensive.

I seen this noise test on Prima Klima fans on YouTube, they seem kinda noisy.With insulated ducts they are more ok but if i dont hear one next to me i cant really tell how loud they are or how the noise will be outside the tent.

Check the noise test if you want: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9iCSe_F0-w

 

[maimunji]

Check S&P Td silent 500. Two speed 580/430 mh3. 22/19 dba. This for 600 w. If you want 400 w take 350 model its 5" ducting.

 

[Howard Marks]

Well thanks, i checked out the fans. They are expensive, the 350 m3/h is 250 euros on amazon, does they really wort it? Of course on the paper they are silent but look at this test on YouTube.

They are like 8 decibels quieter than the Prima Klima fan. Check out the link on the above post of yours for the test.
This test were made by the same guy with the same decibel measurement device.

Is it really worth to spend so much money for a fan that has just a few DB less?

Check out the test for the TD Silent 350: https://youtu.be/0kLJMtZb9sE

 

[gaiusmarius]

depends on how important it is to you, you will ideally buy this stuff once and get to use it for years and years, so in the grand scheme of things the initial investment is peanuts compared to the value of what you are getting in return. there is no other way to be sure that what you smoke has been grown right, without poisons or other negative treatments. on top of that you can choose your genetics and how ripe you want to harvest them. most commercial product is taken as early as possible, so you never get to experience the full flavour and high unless you do it yourself. so knowing all that, is it worth saving a few bucks on ventilation, when quieter for any tent is mostly always better in the end. but in the end it depends on your needs. if the grow has it's own room and a bit of ventilation noise is no problem then go for the cheaper one, otherwise you know what to do, lol. bite the bullet.

 

[Howard Marks]

Yeah, i will give some good thoughts before i commit to buy my stuff. And you are very right that there is no other way to know what you smoke just if you grow it your self. Best weed i smoked was the weed i grew, thats clear : ))

 

[maimunji]

Well thanks, i checked out the fans. They are expensive, the 350 m3/h is 250 euros on amazon, does they really wort it? Of course on the paper they are silent but look at this test on YouTube.

They are like 8 decibels quieter than the Prima Klima fan. Check out the link on the above post of yours for the test.
This test were made by the same guy with the same decibel measurement device.

Is it really worth to spend so much money for a fan that has just a few DB less?

Check out the test for the TD Silent 350: https://youtu.be/0kLJMtZb9sE

I recommend you this extractor from experience. Yes they are silent. I have 500 in my bedroom. you can't hear noise after door is closed. My pc have more noise. its not powerful like ruck or rvk but well worth the money. Tent run around 3-5 C ° over ambient in hot summer when outside is 33 c°+. This with aircooled hood of course. Here in my country price for 500 is 150 euros.

 

[gaiusmarius]

the worst thing is to get the cheap one and then realize it's too weak or too noisy and have to buy the better one anyway in the end. specially for trimming it's good to have some extra capacity under the hood too.

 

[DARKSIDER]

S&P Td silent excellent choice. very quiet run mine with acoustic ducting and a variac speed controller.

 

[GoatCheese]

Yeah i do care about noise. @GoatCheese i checked the Prima Klima inline fans, the new generation of their fans with temperature and speed control are super but in my country they kinda expensive.

I seen this noise test on Prima Klima fans on YouTube, they seem kinda noisy.With insulated ducts they are more ok but if i dont hear one next to me i cant really tell how loud they are or how the noise will be outside the tent.

Check the noise test if you want: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9iCSe_F0-w

In a German grow shop, Head & Nature, a carbon filter + Prima Klima 2-speed inline-ufo fan is 130 euros + shipping.
A slightly more powerful set with the Temp Controller Prima Klima fan costs 170 + shipping
..then you need to buy some duct hose to go with those sets. And maybe few pairs of Easy Rolls

Same shop sells the Prima Klima Sputnik reflector for 90 euros + shipping. They also sell BioBizz nutrients if you already haven't bought some.
The more stuff you can get from the same place helps you save in shipping costs.


About the noise level with insulated duct..
I'd say the sound level is about the same as from a table top PC when the CPU fan/tower fans are cooling the computer fairly rapidly. But thats kinda relative way to put it, i know.

They sell silencers/mufflers for ventilation sets, about 50 euros for a 60cm long with a 125mm in/out @Head & Nature. They have a chart on the shops page to show how many db's those take away on which particular frequencies.

 

[Howard Marks]

I recommend you this extractor from experience. Yes they are silent. I have 500 in my bedroom. you can't hear noise after door is closed. My pc have more noise. its not powerful like ruck or rvk but well worth the money. Tent run around 3-5 C ° over ambient in hot summer when outside is 33 c°+. This with aircooled hood of course. Here in my country price for 500 is 150 euros.

Something i dont get, why you say that S&P its not as powerful as other brands you mentioned. If its rated at let say 350 cubic meter an hour and the other brands rated the same they need to be both the same power. Or its me i dont get what you meant to say?

In a German grow shop, Head & Nature, a carbon filter + Prima Klima 2-speed inline-ufo fan is 130 euros + shipping.
A slightly more powerful set with the Temp Controller Prima Klima fan costs 170 + shipping
..then you need to buy some duct hose to go with those sets. And maybe few pairs of Easy Rolls

Same shop sells the Prima Klima Sputnik reflector for 90 euros + shipping. They also sell BioBizz nutrients if you already haven't bought some.
The more stuff you can get from the same place helps you save in shipping costs.

Thanks, i will check the store and compare the prices from over here. Its good that im not in a total hurry and i have time to choose what would be the best for me.

I already seen a Prima Klima 125mm/400 m3h with temperature control and speed control at 119 euros in a german store, they dont have it now on stock but its cheaper with about 30 euros than the price from my country.

 

[maimunji]

Ruck, Rvk is centrifugal. S&P and i think Prima Klima is in line fans. Centrifugal make vortex with air and even with same cfm, mh3 they are way more powerful. In line fans suck air just in line.====>>>>. Keep this in mind when make choice. Bends and leight of ducting also restruct air flow so this need to be calculated also. Carbon filter also restruct so oversize is better. I have 4 bends and around 2 meter ducting and S&P cool 600 w even in low. 430 mh/3 with rhino filter 900mh/3.

 

[Howard Marks]

One more question arised. Can an air cooled reflector be rised or lowered if i choose to use insulated ducts? I think that with non insulated would be quite easy to adjust length but with insulated?