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Greenbeams vs. DE HPS

timmur

Well-known member
Veteran
Greenbeams vs Gavita (or most any DE HPS)

I'm probably starting a sh*t storm with this, but this is why CMH in general and Greenbeams in particular do make sense from an economic standpoint in a commercial setting. Given the assumptions in the linked spreadsheet, GBs pay off in less than a year.

Of course many will challenge the assumptions, so for the sake of argument I assumed no yield-per-cycle advantage with a 5% cycle reduction to show that pay back. These assumptions are more than realistic based on the anecdotal accounts online. More realistically, I think there will be an increase in yield-per-cycle, but this is less certain.

This doesn't factor in cooling costs or luminaire efficiency. In terms of photosynthetic efficiency (μmoles per joule) the DE HPS wins. Since it (HPS) emits more infrared though, it requires more room cooling to maintain leaf temp relative to ambient temp.

All other things equal, CMH and some of the white spectrum COBs shorten cycles reflected in the model assumptions relative to HPS. Phaeton corrected somebody when they claimed that CMH shortened cycles. He pointed out that it is probably more correct to say that HPS lengthens cycles relative to the other lighting techs. Either way, the ROI is there. Let the flaming begin, lol! :biggrin:
 

rykus

Member
Thanks for posting this! I am really intrigued by all the new light tech! I'm not sure if the Greenbeams are available yet in Canada.

Do you think there is any advantage of mixing in some DE in with the CMH? What about the DoubleDpapillion? I really would like to try a few test rooms, but the price is still a bit of a scare, but if the DE would cut initial cost, I would really like to try both myself..
 

timmur

Well-known member
Veteran
Mixing the lighting would be beneficial from an economic standpoint as DE HPS costs less to purchase and slightly less to operate.

From a spectrum standpoint adding HPS doesn't really help. I've heard that the d-papillons are nice.
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
What are these numbers based on? A combination of claimed yields?

Factoring in all costs would give a broader picture.
 

timmur

Well-known member
Veteran
What are these numbers based on? A combination of claimed yields?

Factoring in all costs would give a broader picture.

Essentially yes. I assumed something like .90 grams/watt (I hate this metric) as a baseline for both scenarios. The model assumes no yield advantage on each cycle, just a reduction in cycle time by 5%. I firmly believe that given entirely equal conditions with the exception of spectrum, the GBs will also offer an improvement in both yield-per-cycle and reduced cycle time. The magnitude is an open question. For the sake of argument I left out any yield-per-cycle improvement.

Agreed on factoring all costs would give a fuller picture. I'm afraid it would simply make the case for CMH over HPS though. The HPS scenario requires a bit more cooling to maintain equal leaf temps since HPS emits more IR. Not sure how to quantify that though as it requires engineering calcs that I'm not familiar with.
 

timmur

Well-known member
Veteran
Hey EZ. Yeah I've posted that a few times. BTT was involved in that grow op and claimed it was all legit. It was based on SE HPS.
 

rykus

Member
Would be really nice to see more multi light comparisons like up to 12 kW of power in a 12x30 and see what light system gets the biggest yield.

I'd be really interested to see the1k DE Gavitas against Epapillon and 750w Gavita's against double Dpapillon and Dpapillon against green beams.. All at near same total watt in same space!

Only 6 rooms, probably only what 100-150k to build, who's up?
 

timmur

Well-known member
Veteran
Would be really nice to see more multi light comparisons like up to 12 kW of power in a 12x30 and see what light system gets the biggest yield.

I'd be really interested to see the1k DE Gavitas against Epapillon and 750w Gavita's against double Dpapillon and Dpapillon against green beams.. All at near same total watt in same space!

Only 6 rooms, probably only what 100-150k to build, who's up?

You could compare that way, but my comparison was meant to keep the PPFD the same and compare annual yield.
 

rykus

Member
I know, I just thought a comparison of actual running efficiency with ac ect. would give us an idea of power-weight ratio... if you did them with their own meters you could factor in ac efficiency too!

even led would be cool too see how much it would cost to do up a large room, and how long till it would recoup...
 

Lyfespan

Active member
Would be really nice to see more multi light comparisons like up to 12 kW of power in a 12x30 and see what light system gets the biggest yield.

I'd be really interested to see the1k DE Gavitas against Epapillon and 750w Gavita's against double Dpapillon and Dpapillon against green beams.. All at near same total watt in same space!

Only 6 rooms, probably only what 100-150k to build, who's up?

i run a 14x20 room with 10 Nanolux De fixtures, very curious about the CMH for future upgrades and smaller tent areas :tiphat:
 

timmur

Well-known member
Veteran
i run a 14x20 room with 10 Nanolux De fixtures, very curious about the CMH for future upgrades and smaller tent areas :tiphat:

I'm just finishing up an 8 x 10 room with Greenbeams o'plenty. Stop by my thread once the grow is underway to see how they perform. :biggrin:
 

Lyfespan

Active member
I'm just finishing up an 8 x 10 room with Greenbeams o'plenty. Stop by my thread once the grow is underway to see how they perform. :biggrin:

there are tons of these cmh manufactures coming out, why Greenbeams over others? that dimlux looks pretty killer, the nanolux cmh worx with my nccs timer.

whats greenbeams sales point, and does a member here have ownership in them?

they look like they perform fairly well:tiphat:
 

timmur

Well-known member
Veteran
there are tons of these cmh manufactures coming out, why Greenbeams over others? that dimlux looks pretty killer, the nanolux cmh worx with my nccs timer.

whats greenbeams sales point, and does a member here have ownership in them?

they look like they perform fairly well:tiphat:

I don't have any affiliation with them and I'm not aware of anyone else that does either. There are a few fans of the tech including me. The primary benefit of GBs over other CMH tech is their uniformity of irradiance. Their patented reflector is meant to use the walls as part of the lighting system. They really have unmatched uniformity which should help maximize yields by minimizing localized photoinhibition due to hot spots and under lit conditions resulting from managing said hot spots.

To date I'm not aware of any comparative testing of the various CMH tech to demonstrate the potential yield benefits I just outlined. With that said, I think EZ Rider is going to do some testing of a phantom reflector against GBs. I believe he plans to test using a quantum light meter. I'm not sure if he's going to do comparative grows.
 

Lyfespan

Active member
I don't have any affiliation with them and I'm not aware of anyone else that does either. There are a few fans of the tech including me. The primary benefit of GBs over other CMH tech is their uniformity of irradiance. Their patented reflector is meant to use the walls as part of the lighting system. They really have unmatched uniformity which should help maximize yields by minimizing localized photoinhibition due to hot spots and under lit conditions resulting from managing said hot spots.

To date I'm not aware of any comparative testing of the various CMH tech to demonstrate the potential yield benefits I just outlined. With that said, I think EZ Rider is going to do some testing of a phantom reflector against GBs. I believe he plans to test using a quantum light meter. I'm not sure if he's going to do comparative grows.

yo timmur hows the day treating you, puffing some great wax here and some great flowers both bred by icmag members:tiphat: thank you pnwroots and endur:thank you:

timmur with me having huge rooms with high ceiling heights, would the reflection point even matter to me, i light the rooms not the plants.

flower room is 20x14 and will have now 14 nanolux DEs running at 1250 watts each. just grabbed 4 more lights to brighten the 10 i had up :biggrin:
 

timmur

Well-known member
Veteran
yo timmur hows the day treating you, puffing some great wax here and some great flowers both bred by icmag members:tiphat: thank you pnwroots and endur:thank you:

timmur with me having huge rooms with high ceiling heights, would the reflection point even matter to me, i light the rooms not the plants.

flower room is 20x14 and will have now 14 nanolux DEs running at 1250 watts each. just grabbed 4 more lights to brighten the 10 i had up :biggrin:

My day is pretty good thanks! waiting for the contractor to show up and finish my room. I wish I was a DIYer!

I believe with high ceilings many overlapping lights the GBs would still offer some advantage up to rooms that are 50 x 50. Beyond that I don't think they offer much advantage.

How are those nanolux treating you? You must be throwing down some serious light! :biggrin:
 

Lyfespan

Active member
My day is pretty good thanks! waiting for the contractor to show up and finish my room. I wish I was a DIYer!

I believe with high ceilings many overlapping lights the GBs would still offer some advantage up to rooms that are 50 x 50. Beyond that I don't think they offer much advantage.

How are those nanolux treating you? You must be throwing down some serious light! :biggrin:

being a contractor makes this job a little easier here:biggrin:

the nanolux are great so far, wish i had a meter to see what i was putting out.

i will say nanolux is above and beyond the best at customer service, i just got all my lights replaced, due to a recall:thank you: nanolux.
 

Ez Rider

Active member
Veteran
Has anyone tried out the new DE 630 CMH bulbs?

I believe you're talking about the 630w lec's. It's a single hood, with 2 opposing 315w bulbs in it. I'd stick with greenbeams. These dual bulb fixtures make for an extreme hot spot under the reflector.
 

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