goldenseed: Blue Monster, 20% plus thcv.. possible?

[CannaZen]

It seems goldenseed has claimed on their product description page that their blue monster and blue frost seeds produce plants containing 20% thcV!

This sounds like blatant marketing lies for such a high content to me, i've not heard of a strain containing such a level. Does anybody have any thoughts on this? It is described as a head stone that is "Powerful high with heavy sedation properties " which sounds a bit contrary to the common description of the not so talked about thcv constituent.. and its 'clear, euphoric and energetic' effects as leafly describes.
Can terpenes truly be powerful so to create sedation despite high thc/thcv ratios?

Back to my original question, the varieties both seem to have the G13 and a mexican sativa that from some reading, i believe may contain thcv content.

 

[CannaZen]

Blue Monster:
G13 X Blueberry, x Northern lights #5 x Motta Mejicanna

Blue frost:
Blue Monster x Jack Frost

 

[Chimera]

unlikely.

Right off the bat, plants produce cannabinoid-acids (ie THCVA), not neutral forms like THCv, so the info is already misleading.

Why not ask the seller for a lab report of the variety from a validated laboratory?

THCv is not psychoactive, so claims of high THCv and a euphoric high are counter to each other, imo.

 

[CannaZen]

unlikely.

Right off the bat, plants produce cannabinoid-acids (ie THCVA), not neutral forms like THCv, so the info is already misleading.

yes you could say that and perhaps breeders should classify cannabinoid levels in their acidic form but that would be dealing with semantics, would it not? it would not seem to be as prevalent as the industry standard would seem to be of neutral form.. but i think you are right in that to be fairly misleading.

I'll contact them and see if i can find out more.

 

[CannaZen]

from reading i have found that Thcv is said to augment thc effects much like cbd does and is not psychoactive active in its pure form similar to cbd.

I find this very interesting.

According to wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabivarin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol

Plants with elevated levels of propyl cannabinoids (including THCV) have been found in populations of Cannabis sativa L. ssp. indica (= Cannabis indica Lam.) from China, India, Nepal, Thailand, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, as well as southern and western Africa. THCV levels up to 53.7% of total cannabinoids have been reported. [3] [4]

THCV is a cannabinoid receptor type 1 antagonist and cannabinoid receptor type 2 partial agonist.[5] Δ8-THCV has also been shown to be a CB1 antagonist.[6] Both papers describing the antagonistic properties of THCV were demonstrated in murine models.

Cannabidiol has a very low affinity for CB1 and CB2 receptors but acts as an indirect antagonist of their agonists.[22][23] While one would assume that this would cause cannabidiol to reduce the effects of THC, it may potentiate THC's effects by increasing CB1 receptor density or through another CB1-related mechanism.[24] It may also extend the duration of the effects of THC via inhibition of the cytochrome P-450-3A and 2C enzymes.[25]

Recently, it was found to be an antagonist at the putative new cannabinoid receptor, GPR55, a GPCR expressed in the caudate nucleus and putamen.[26] Cannabidiol has also been shown to act as a 5-HT1A receptor partial agonist,[27] an action which may be involved in its antidepressant,[28][29] anxiolytic,[29][30] and neuroprotective[31][32] effects. Cannabidiol is an allosteric modulator of μ and δ-opioid receptors.[33] Cannabidiol's pharmacological effects have also been attributed to PPAR-γ receptor agonism and intracellular calcium release.[7]

Research suggests that CBD may exert some of its pharmacological action through its inhibition of FAAH, which may in turn increase the levels of endocannabinoids, such as anandamide, produced by the body.[7] It has also been speculated that some of the metabolites of CBD have pharmacological effects that contribute to the biological activity of CBD

I understand that much of this is not very new but i find it relevant to the discussion. I am interested in breeding for thcv and cbd with comparable thc levels, it could prove to be something quite unique and medicinal.

 

[Chimera]

No, what I am saying is that expressing cannabinoids in their neutral form is misleading. If you use a GC to determine CB's, you lose up to 30% in the injector because it is heated to 250 degrees C. So a propyl variety with a "measured and reported" 20% THCV content would really be in the range of 28% THCVa, very unlikely. Neutral forms is the standard of people who don't actually measure cannabinoids ike hightimes magazine and most seed banks- it's for advertising only- but anyone serious about cannabinoid profiling expresses CB's in the acid form because the assay that measures neutral forms (GC) is not accurate for cannabinoids. The reason I said get a lab test from the company is that they probably don't have one, and are just making up claims with no substance. Asking the seller for the lab result proving their claim is the best way to get the info, posting here won't get you a better answer.

I have THCV and CBDV varieties that produce in the 15-20% total cannabinoid-acid range. They were bred from individuals that had a lower amount of the propyl cannabinoids, starting in the 2-3% propyl-CB range. If you understand the inheritance of cannabinoids, you can increase it significantly from there, but over 20% propyls is a stretch without real selective breeding using chemical analysis. I cant tell from the reported heritage that these lines didn't undergo that process.

You'll also notice that THCV is a CB1 receptor antagonist, that's not going to increase the effects of THC... it will mute it.

 

[CannaZen]

hah! serves me for listening to anecdotes and a leafly article.

Thank you Chimera, i saw that but you are right, i did not think because it is an antagonist that it will cancel out agonists.. duh.. what a stoop.
I'm not so sure the picture is that simple with THCV. While that may be so, i believe what people are reporting as clear headed could just be its anti-inflamatic action taking place.. add some cb1 receptor agonist action with the lower thcv content and it could very well be euphoric and energizing for some, after all.. those are THC-like effects (from what i've heard) and THCV is very similar to THC-A which is anti-inflammatory, this is how THCV's anti-inflammation effects have been postulated on a science journal but it also is an cb2 agonist which is believed to be related to the immune system and inflammation.

The fact that cbd is an indirect antagonist of both receptors should also be noted. I've also found this article to be relevant. from 2012 "Cannabinoid receptors CB1 and CB2 form functional heteromers in the brain " http://www.jbc.org/content/early/2012/04/24/jbc.M111.335273

I've also read CBD can behave as a CB1 receptor ‘inverse agonist' at concentrations below those at which it undergoes significant binding to the CB1 orthosteric site.



I'm afraid I dont understand much of this so please dont take me literally. Anyway now i know that 20% THCV is possible, before i did not. Should Blue Monster not contain THCV in considerable amounts, Is it possible a THCV variety could be obtained from somebody such as yourself? I know of nowhere else that i can reasonably find one without putting in time, work and money that i cannot afford. I'm interested only for the medicinal use, i have problems!

 

[cacannabinoids]

Highly Unlikely. I am growing a 6.5% THCVA strain, and this is significantly higher than any others I see out there.

 

[CosmicCharlie]

There are so many Cannabinoids that it isn't really understood how they all effect each other along with the terpenes. Binding affinity at the receptors and agonism or antagonism all play a big role as well as the targeted receptor (which could also have different effects at higher doses).

 

[Medfinder]

There are so many Cannabinoids that it isn't really understood how they all effect each other along with the terpenes. Binding affinity at the receptors and agonism or antagonism all play a big role as well as the targeted receptor (which could also have different effects at higher doses).

Correct!

 

[hellfire]

unlikely.

Why not ask the seller for a lab report of the variety from a validated laboratory?

Heh, I'd ask for 3 from 3 different labs with those claims.

I'd be skeptical of any THCV claims beyond single digits, at this point in time anyway.

 

[cacannabinoids]

Heh, I'd ask for 3 from 3 different labs with those claims.

I'd be skeptical of any THCV claims beyond single digits, at this point in time anyway.

And be skeptical still, since most labs don't have THCVA standards, which makes the results dubious at best.

California Cannabinoids has a 6.5% strain