ibeenaround
New member
does the current golden tiger release use the meao thai or a different one ? thx..IBA
Golden Tiger
- Thread starter treewizard
- Start date
R
rüdiger
from this thread, can you read?
'NUTRIENT SECRETS AND FLUSHING. A FORGOTTEN KEY PART TO SATIVA FLOWER TIMES
This is something I don't hear very often and is pretty important. The amount of nutes you feed your sativa is also going to effect how long it flowers to a pretty dramatic amount in some cases. This is another place people try to grow sativas like indicas. With a hybrid plant as we all know those last 3 weeks or so is when all the real weight is put on. And you don't wanna skimp on ferts at this time. If the plant runs out of N its not going to produce as big of buds as it could've. So people usually feed up until about a week or a lil longer then they quit feeding. Which is what you should do for most plants.
But sativas aren't most plants. The reason those hybrid buds get so big and resinous those last few weeks is they think winter is coming. They are secreting resin trying to catch pollen, and desperately trying to produce enough energy in the buds to take care of seeds before a frost ends their life over night. Since there are no seeds they produce bigger buds.
But alot of sativas are from places there is no real winter to speak of. Most have no genetic background to be prepared for the concept of finishing for a frost. What determines finishing time for tropical sativas is nutrients. When they are in the wild there is no frost that forces them to try to make seeds. But if they run out of nutes they will die and so will their seeds. So when they start feeling nutrients running out in the ecosystem full of other nutrient thieves they know they need to put all energy into bud production for seeds and not growing more stem and leaves.
By keeping feeding your sativa N as fan leaves die during flower you are accidentally telling your plant that their ecosystem is thriving and they should compete to outgrow other canopy. Stem and leaves in other words which also extends the plants flower time dramatically. New growers often accidentally flower plants for nine months and stuff confused why new growth keeps coming out. Wondering when its going to end. This not only effects flower time but also the high. All those clear trichs aren't ready and produce anxious headache type stone mixed into your euphoric sativa.
As the plant yellows during the last month... good let it. Its natural. As long as it has P and K it will produce nice buds that are ready to finish in unison. Without all that new growth popping out of old growth. Sativas need very little N to produce growth; trust me. Let it finish you'll be happier with PROPERLY mature sativa buds for a change in a shorter period than you would have. This is the mistake so many growers make and why their weed is anxious and takes so long to flower. Also leads to alot of negative opinons about sats.'
'VEG NUTES FIRST FEW WEEKS OF FLOWER A BAD IDEA.
This is something alot of people picked up a long time ago, BOG helped spread it around, and it truly is a good idea, just not for sativas. When you grow hybrids that initial growth jump first few weeks of flowering where all new budsites is formed is a great time to have the plant flourishing on N to create growth. More budsites and more bud. But with sativas they use that energy to grow REAL TALL thinking they can get their buds up higher than the surrounding canopy and steal light for its seeds. But indoors all they do is grow right into your damn light. I can't tell you how many sativa grows I've followed and watched people do that veg nutes first weeks of flower trick only to find out three weeks later they have to cut all the dominant cola tips off the plants because they are growing into the lights. The people are always optimistic like "well I had to cut the main branches off but at this rate of growth I don't think it will hurt anything" '
'DON"T EXPECT ALL SATIVAS TO BEHAVE SIMILIAR IN GROWTH
You know just because a plant is a 75% sativa don't instantly assume that its going to go through the roof or be nute sensitive. Some sativas can handle alot. Not finicky at all. They don't all grow tall either. Alot of modern hawaiian and jamaican strains are certainly what you would call sativa. at least 60-70 percent, but have already adapted to a 90 day cycle and small amounts of rocky soil from being hidden in the hills. They are not going to go 6ft on you. They might not need to be restricted at all. Same thing with some mexican bagseed. You might have a fatter leafed one go godzilla on you, after a thin leafed one stayed short and didn't need restricting. It's really plant to plant and with so many different plants being bred indoors, or in northern climates it can be surprising how they will behave sometimes. '
BmKing, please dont change the schedule I told you!
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G`day Rudiger
Nice work with the quote .
That ties in with my wet season / dry season theory I took the time to explain a few pages back . Home brewer keeps telling us we`re wrong . But he doesn`t understand the subject well enough to be objective .
Also it rains till early flower then no rain for 3-4 months . That would be the biggest signaler to the plants. The humidity drops dramatically and day / night temps have a greater differential .
A few thousands of generations get quite adapted to their environment .
Kali Mist might smoke like a nice Sativa . But thats where the similarities end .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
Nice work with the quote .
That ties in with my wet season / dry season theory I took the time to explain a few pages back . Home brewer keeps telling us we`re wrong . But he doesn`t understand the subject well enough to be objective .
Also it rains till early flower then no rain for 3-4 months . That would be the biggest signaler to the plants. The humidity drops dramatically and day / night temps have a greater differential .
A few thousands of generations get quite adapted to their environment .
Kali Mist might smoke like a nice Sativa . But thats where the similarities end .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
R
rüdiger
hey Elmer Bud, thank you very much for the fat one. especially the reminder of day night temperature differential. I should modulate it in my setup total different than i have been, when i think about it.
Higher yield? The guy who grows plants as big as a beer bottle is giving me advice on how to yield well? Hmmm....
G`day HB
If all you want to do is act like a bitch,
Maybe better go over to the Serious seeds sub forum and spread your knowledge over there eh ?
Thanks for sharin
EB .
If all you want to do is act like a bitch,
keep up the same rap without explaining the reasons why. Ignoring other peoples experiences .
Maybe better go over to the Serious seeds sub forum and spread your knowledge over there eh ?
Thanks for sharin
EB .
R
rüdiger
yes much higher yield, you dont use your media to full capacity.
i can also see that from your floral formations.
are you watering from above or below?
what do you pull from one 600 with your kali, considering you use them?
or better say what does a single kali mist plant in a certain soil volume, you use for them, yield?
i can also see that from your floral formations.
are you watering from above or below?
what do you pull from one 600 with your kali, considering you use them?
or better say what does a single kali mist plant in a certain soil volume, you use for them, yield?
R
rüdiger
I challenge you, Homebrewer, for a battle grow against me.
We both use a 600w hps of our choice and grow with that on a space of 120x120cm.
only singlestrain(of your choice) in monocrop(growing style of your choice).
what counts is the gram per watt at the end of each ones cycle, not depending on flowering time.
And we do it here in icmag.
so what?
We both use a 600w hps of our choice and grow with that on a space of 120x120cm.
only singlestrain(of your choice) in monocrop(growing style of your choice).
what counts is the gram per watt at the end of each ones cycle, not depending on flowering time.
And we do it here in icmag.
so what?
Maybe you missed my posts a few pages back just like you missed the hoards of mites and necrotic leaves on your plants?
Seriously man? You're going to give me advice on how to yield better with those 3 gram plants? At the risk of sounding rude, save it. I've been down your path and that is no way to grow healthy plants.
On to your question:
A single kali mist plant will yield 5-6 oz under a 600hps in 3.5 gallons of promix. The rest of the strains under the light (usually 6 others) will yield around 3 ounces each? Keep 'em green and everything else falls into place.
Done. Want to start now or do you need time? I've got a hydro tray that just got filled. OR we can start in a few weeks? Up to you
Twistedshadow
New member
so you wait months to get what??? 2 joints per plant in yield???
good luck with that.
I'd rather follow Homebrewer's grow style, His buds are bigger than your whole plants...
good luck with that.
I'd rather follow Homebrewer's grow style, His buds are bigger than your whole plants...
S
scai
I have a suggestion
Homebrewer, why don't you try?
Take cuttings of your Kalimist and try with different technics.
That's the only way to say properly what works and what doesn't. And then compare your notes with others.
There is no need to fight, I say, you say.And who is right.
We all might be, cos our enviroments are different and we do thing differently.
And Ace forum is not for fighting, this is home for us.
Motaco is one of old time gurus, what he says has some weight in it. Believe me, he's got experience and knowledge.
I have been a heavy feeder, then I went to almost no feed and know I'm coming back to my senses.
You got to make difference with sativa, hybrids and pure indica (if there is such a thing)
Lot's of N works for hybrids and indicas, but it doesn't work for landrace sativas or some sativas. It's a wonderfull tool to make big, robust growth.But not for picky sativas...
Everyone needs to find it out themselves.
What kind of sativa do you have and how much it can handle....
I'm lining up with rudiger, no N when plant is finishing flowering. Only P & K. That will plump colas up.
When I take plants to flower, I will give very weak N for couple times...depending who she is.
No N at that time to sativas, but for hybrids and indicas.
Because it is like Motaco says, sativa will only take it to grow...and then you are wondering why it doesn't stop flowering but keeps on going and going. It NEEDS to DIE.
Last month there is no N available to any plant at all.No matter who they are.
Because green doesn't taste good.
If we think about nature and annual plants that seed.
In the beginning of growth there is fertilizer on the ground, old leaves, stems, etc...when plant has gone 4 months supply is geting almost nothing.
It's a short nights, temperature, lack of ferts and so on, that triggers flowering.The ultimate way to keep alive next year...seedmaking.
Plant concentrates all what it has to try to make seed.
And that's when we harvest.
Nature doesn't provide much ferts.At the end of growing and floweringcycle.
So I suggest that you really try with different technics and take them seriously.That's the only way to learn something.
Twistedshadow, it's takes skill to grow small as it does to grow big..You try it and you'll see.
Homebrewer, why don't you try?
Take cuttings of your Kalimist and try with different technics.
That's the only way to say properly what works and what doesn't. And then compare your notes with others.
There is no need to fight, I say, you say.And who is right.
We all might be, cos our enviroments are different and we do thing differently.
And Ace forum is not for fighting, this is home for us
.Motaco is one of old time gurus, what he says has some weight in it. Believe me, he's got experience and knowledge.
I have been a heavy feeder, then I went to almost no feed and know I'm coming back to my senses.
You got to make difference with sativa, hybrids and pure indica (if there is such a thing)
Lot's of N works for hybrids and indicas, but it doesn't work for landrace sativas or some sativas. It's a wonderfull tool to make big, robust growth.But not for picky sativas...
Everyone needs to find it out themselves.
What kind of sativa do you have and how much it can handle....
I'm lining up with rudiger, no N when plant is finishing flowering. Only P & K. That will plump colas up.
When I take plants to flower, I will give very weak N for couple times...depending who she is.
No N at that time to sativas, but for hybrids and indicas.
Because it is like Motaco says, sativa will only take it to grow...and then you are wondering why it doesn't stop flowering but keeps on going and going. It NEEDS to DIE.
Last month there is no N available to any plant at all.No matter who they are.
Because green doesn't taste good.
If we think about nature and annual plants that seed.
In the beginning of growth there is fertilizer on the ground, old leaves, stems, etc...when plant has gone 4 months supply is geting almost nothing.
It's a short nights, temperature, lack of ferts and so on, that triggers flowering.The ultimate way to keep alive next year...seedmaking.
Plant concentrates all what it has to try to make seed.
And that's when we harvest
.Nature doesn't provide much ferts.At the end of growing and floweringcycle.
So I suggest that you really try with different technics and take them seriously.That's the only way to learn something.
Twistedshadow, it's takes skill to grow small as it does to grow big..You try it and you'll see.
S
scai
You must make difference.
There are annual plants that should die at the end of summer.
And then there are perennials that do not .
Cannabis is annual
.
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S
smallgardener
The very first time I ve had some tropical sativa, Zamaldelica fem. With same regime with chemdog genes. Hey she was at day 50 with much N feeding in 10l , and she had very small with flowers it was wtf its like 2-3 weeks after switch And next round with cut from that plant, but with another regime - compost and guano and transplanted to bigger pot after 2w flo. more soil/less ferts and it was really OK and big flowers
And next round with cut from that plant, but with another regime - compost and guano and transplanted to bigger pot after 2w flo. more soil/less ferts and it was really OK and big flowers
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R
rüdiger
Done. Want to start now or do you need time? I've got a hydro tray that just got filled. OR we can start in a few weeks? Up to you
hey Homebrewer!
Na, I need some time.
I will inform you when im ready, but if you want to start direct, open a thread for it in the main grow forums, i will then join later
it must not be timely paralell to compare?!
'Homebrewer VS rüdiger - two ways, one goal'
would be a nice title i think.
R
rüdiger
2 joints x 96 on 31x54cm, 192 joints on 31x54cm
if they yield a gram, its 96grams on 31x54cm
x 8 on 124x108cm, its 768 gram
i forget that they yield more than a gram in QP96 T
ah and its 33,5x51,5 cm
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Sativas will flower AND finish based on their response to the light cycle, NOT the elemental balance they're being fed. Try 'flowering' a sativa with bloom formulas and 20 hours of light. It wont flower. Trying 'flowering' a sativa with veg nutes and 12, 11, or 10 hours of light. They'll finish when their internal clock says so.
See, the difference between me and you folks is that I've done it both ways. I did it 'their' way for almost a decade. Why would I revert when I know better now?If we think about nature and annual plants that seed.
In the beginning of growth there is fertilizer on the ground, old leaves, stems, etc...when plant has gone 4 months supply is geting almost nothing.
It's a short nights, temperature, lack of ferts and so on, that triggers flowering.The ultimate way to keep alive next year...seedmaking.
Plant concentrates all what it has to try to make seed.
And that's when we harvest
Nature doesn't provide much ferts.At the end of growing and floweringcycle.
So I suggest that you really try with different technics and take them seriously.That's the only way to learn something.
In regards to nature, she's not one to copy. We are growing plants in an environment that mimics the perfect day 365 days per year. Ask the folks in the PNW how 'perfect' mother nature is when the rains decide to come 3 weeks earlier than last year.
Are you familiar with EPCOT's single tomato plant that yielded 32000 tomatoes in 16 months in their greenhouse? Lets see mother nature beat that
.
S
scai
Yes they will finish, but with how many weeks ?
Nature doesn't give only one element, but all them together....cool, less ferts, less light etc...Equatorial sativas grow in very hars ground.... That's why if they get too much ferts they go on and on...
If you say, we don't need to go with nature, I wonder how you will do it, and if the finished product is good? Cos these plants come from nature, from wild. And they are weeds.
It might be, I don't challenge you on that, I'm just telling what is my own experience
Tomato is in many ways as difficult to grow that hemp is But.... as many growers know...you don't feed your tomatoes with plenty of N, in mainrole is PK You can beat mother nature in many ways, but is it sustainable grow?
Is it something that gives you the most perfect result? I don't think so?
What is PNW? What is EPCOT
It would be good if you could link some of your grows here, the ones you say are gone bad? And gone bad just because not enought ferts?
Nature doesn't give only one element, but all them together....cool, less ferts, less light etc...Equatorial sativas grow in very hars ground.... That's why if they get too much ferts they go on and on...
If you say, we don't need to go with nature, I wonder how you will do it, and if the finished product is good? Cos these plants come from nature, from wild. And they are weeds.
It might be, I don't challenge you on that, I'm just telling what is my own experience
Tomato is in many ways as difficult to grow that hemp is
But.... as many growers know...you don't feed your tomatoes with plenty of N, in mainrole is PK You can beat mother nature in many ways, but is it sustainable grow?Is it something that gives you the most perfect result? I don't think so?
What is PNW? What is EPCOT
It would be good if you could link some of your grows here, the ones you say are gone bad? And gone bad just because not enought ferts?
If we think about nature and annual plants that seed.
In the beginning of growth there is fertilizer on the ground, old leaves, stems, etc...when plant has gone 4 months supply is geting almost nothing.
It's a short nights, temperature, lack of ferts and so on, that triggers flowering.The ultimate way to keep alive next year...seedmaking.
Plant concentrates all what it has to try to make seed.
And that's when we harvest
I don't think the "natural way" is the best one. In nature, there are also pests, unpredictable environment and other things but you don't stress your plants this way, even though it could make them sturdier. You don't let monkeys piss on your ladies, even though it happens in the jungle. Do you know about any commercially produced crop which is starved of one essential element on purpose?
The obvious thing is that too much nitrogen = leafy plants which take longer to finish. That's true even for tometoes etc. We all know that it's relatively easy to overfert sativa with N. However, I can't imagine how letting plant lose leaves could help anything (doesn't mean it'll make it worse, though).
I think nitrogen deficiency is major problem only in veg, during flower I observed that my grows with lower N seemed to mature few days earlier, dunno about overall weight.
To sum up I'd say it's a matter of preference unless someone proves else. In side-by-side I think plant with a bit of N will do a little better than no N, nothing huge. The only definitely bad thing is TOO MUCH nitrogen. Some is OK imo.
