goal:pre-fertilized coco+water only

[xmobotx]

The only real obstacle I see from what reading I've done on coco is the presence of potassium and salts in the coco itself. W/ a hydro feed regimen, the medium can be constantly monitored and adjusted. W/ all at once soil prep, you're putting all your eggs in one basket.

However, it would seem that if you compensate for the existing potassium - and, supplement calcium and magnesium; that obstacle is overcome.

The next thing would be to choose rock phosphate over colloidal or soft phosphate - thereby gaining the gradual release factor there. I never have found a formula for figuring: a) how much phosphorus is present initially or, b) at what rate the phosphorus becomes available.

That's where I arrive at the idea of having your mix represent all your trace and a minimum of you NPK - then, supplement as you go for what the plants need at each life stage.

 

[*mistress*]

That's where I arrive at the idea of having your mix represent all your trace and a minimum of you NPK - then, supplement as you go for what the plants need at each life stage.

or...
top dress everything @ 1 time...
& water those particular top-dressed portions w/ specific amendments, when time comes for that stage...

enjoy your garden!

 

[xmobotx]

or...
top dress everything @ 1 time...
& water those particular top-dressed portions w/ specific amendments, when time comes for that stage...

enjoy your garden!

Sure, and since it would naturally leach into the coco, there's gradual introduction

my plan is more like water w/ a little fish emulsion wk 2 - 4 flip

then hit the (pre*loaded?) top dressing of a 3-7-0 guano or ? i had thot tea

*cool idea!

 

[*mistress*]

 

[Dhude]

I'm always interested in reading your stuff Missy, as it's different for sure.

But I keep returning to your stated mission: Less gear, less meddling, less work and more enjoying of the garden. Yet in my mind, you got there...sort of...but are steadily drifting into complexity in the name of...eliminating complexity.

I understand the end goal and how it could be a low effort/maintenance affair if you somehow experimented enough to get the pre-ferted mix right. But experiments that are worth anything take plenty of time and effort to carry out and record, multiple trials, closely controlled conditions.

So while I share the desire of low maintenance, less mech devices, I see a much different way to get there. To wit:

50gal drum shaped res elevated above plants, feeding blumat drippers, in straight coco, using FNB. Literally the only maintenance is occasional foliars and pest mgmt.

No wicks to mess with, one part nute. 40gal will feed one side of the room for a week during the heaviest usage. Piggyback a second rez onto the first with a float valve, or use a bigger rez and you could go an unlimited time.

Only upside over the system I described that I can detect in your system is the ability to run blumats on a reducer off a spigot and eliminate even having a rez.

 

[Dhude]

Sounds like a wash, effort-wise and that you enjoy the tinkering.

I don't actually use FNB anymore, but for a one-step nute, it's hard to beat...hard to shake too. I'm back on a modified lucas since I know GH products reasonably well and can make small adjustments easily. I did some application rate comparisons once, and my GH/lucas was less than half the cost of running the basic H&G coco A+B.

Surely there is a product on the market that purports to do exactly what your aiming for...a full cycle worth of nutes in a soilless mix of some kind?

 

[PkRipper]

advanced heavy harvest?


its for outdoor but hey i looks to be worth a try if it last the whole flower cycle

 

[transplant]

how about this? This is SubCool's recipie for super soil. It could be a recipie for super coco! the super soil was laid in the bottom half of the pot & plain on top.
8 large bags of a high-quality organic potting soil with coco fiber and mycorrhizae (i.e., your base soil)25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings5 lbs steamed bone meal5 lbs Bloom bat guano5 lbs blood meal3 lbs rock phosphate¾ cup Epson salts½ cup sweet lime (dolomite)½ cup azomite (trace elements)2 tbsp powdered humic acidcouldn't you just use coco with all of this stuff instead oc the soiless mix?
Whats your thought on this????

 

[Castelvetro]

id say totally skip theese pre fert plans, id say your asking for a huge headache., but we all must pay are dues somehow, maybe this is yours-

 

[rooted]

going to throw a few things out here...... mistress please take this with a grain of salt, it's more for the viewers

in the spirit of experimentation, i'm glad you're looking for new ways to use our beloved medium; however, coco isn't meant to imitate soil, it's considered a hydro medium for good reason, and likes to be treated as such.....i'll say it again, clearly, coco should not be treated like soil, because it doesn't behave like soil.

amending coco as you would a soil mix, is planned failure...like an anchor on an airplane

coarse fibers probably make a great additive to peat mixes, in small quantities

maybe i'm a coco purist (probably how i sound) i think this thread would be more at home in the organic soil forum.

with that said ^ mistress, i've noticed you have a technical diarrhea style of posting, kinda like pepper spray to my eyes.....



.....sproutco is that you?

 

[Castelvetro]

clicked your link on the coco blend, one of the posters bitched about it not draining worth a dam, a big no no with coco. dont mix coco with soil, there no reason unless u like wasteing money-

 

[xmobotx]

i may or may not be right here - but, isn't pro-mix basically coco and perlite?

i thought that most of the "soil-less" mixes are based on coco rather than peat. IOW, coco is not some new phenomenon or invention - it's been actively used by generations of growers (if that's the case?)

Meaning, generations of growers have successfully been growing w/ coco and amendments?

And, i have had success w/ pro-mix and pre-mixing my amendments.

Successes which I am translating to my experiments w/ coco.

Although, I do want to try treating it like a hydro medium w/ organic teas.

 

[rooted]

please clarify how adding amendments to coco would be doom for plants?

ok, i was being too vague....amending a compaction resistant, hyper-oxygenated medium with castings, peat, guanos, etc, is taking away from the advantages of coco, defeating the purpose....like driving an airplane cross country....not using it's full potential

you're creating a soilless mix, was the big point here i guess.....many of us here don't consider that a coco grow, it's a moot point really, so i'll just drop it

as soon as a co provides samples of some 'new' coco w/ amendment products, there will be plenty seeking to try...

my hydro guy ordered some roots organics soilless mix (coco/perlite/pumice/castings/guano/kelp) it's described as "lightly charged", but i'd like to inspect it personally, seems ok since there's no peat.....next time i'm at the shop i'll see if i can get a test bag kicked down.

already been done...
black gold coco blend:
coco, peat moss, earth worm castings, perlite, yucca...

& the results, as reported on icmag...
Black Gold Coco Blend

ran that mix several gardens... wick system. added myco... added molasses... deleted soluble ferts in some containers... found that plants grow just as well w/ >added ferts & amends pre-included.

i never questioned the possibility....but again to clarify, it's a soilless mix, and will not exhibit the explosive growth rates or yield of a true coco grow

fwiw, coco is an organic medium... derived from coconuts...

and i thought it was chocolate!

it has gained acceptance as a hydro medium

coco is a hydro medium, has been from the start, because it is relatively inert

but does have tendency to trap ca+ & k+... an inert media, like, perlite would not affect input ca+ & k+... notice that it is gnerally recommended to add calcium (ca+) to the solution, &/or coco itself...

reason?

the '+' means that calcium is positively charged. since coco contains calcium - in its physical properties - & since like charges repel ea other, it is possible to water calcium & have the molecules repel ea other & never get to plant. can go straight thru...

i'm thoroughly aware of coco's high CEC, let me correct you. coco does not repel calcium. it holds onto cations like calcium, potassium, magnesium, and until you have satisfied this holding capacity, your plant cannot uptake those cations. this is why coco nutes have elevated cal/mag content...also why it's recommended to soak new coco in light calmag solution..this is also why, if your nutes are properly balanced, your plant will uptake ca/mg/k much easier. the downside to this: sodium (salt) is also a cation, which is why you must be careful about salt buildup in a flood/drain setup, same goes for no-runoff coco grows

coco purist?
there are plenty threads where media is 100% coco. says so in title, usually... this thread says opposite. maybe not for member rooted - from title of thread...

don't understand your point here

good.
maybe will encourage rooted to not click on pdg/*mistress* thread...

not anymore than usual, i'll let ya know how the roots organics does, if you'd like.


happy holidays, and happy growing to you!

 

[rooted]

i may or may not be right here - but, isn't pro-mix basically coco and perlite?

i thought that most of the "soil-less" mixes are based on coco rather than peat. IOW, coco is not some new phenomenon or invention - it's been actively used by generations of growers (if that's the case?)

Meaning, generations of growers have successfully been growing w/ coco and amendments?

And, i have had success w/ pro-mix and pre-mixing my amendments.

Successes which I am translating to my experiments w/ coco.

Although, I do want to try treating it like a hydro medium w/ organic teas.

NO! pro-mix is a peat based soilless mix, just like the majority of all soilless mixes!

pro-mix contains no coco

 

[rooted]

whoops

 

[transplant]

Dues Paid

Dues Paid

id say totally skip theese pre fert plans, id say your asking for a huge headache., but we all must pay are dues somehow, maybe this is yours-

Thanks Castelvetro! I know about payin dues...I wont go there. OK I have a few grows under my belt. I am just deciding to kick out the old rock wool & bring in the coco. can any one give me some sound advice on using coco. I have been using the r/w cubes, crutons...

 

[Castelvetro]

keep it straight, ph your nutes to 6, have a little run of now and again, flush with water at the same ph, feed the plant not the medium. go easy on the watering initially, if they weep n arent drying(container getting lighter) dont water untill they do, when they start drinking alot, water daily. easy as pie-

 

[transplant]

keep it straight, ph your nutes to 6, have a little run of now and again, flush with water at the same ph, feed the plant not the medium. go easy on the watering initially, if they weep n arent drying(container getting lighter) dont water untill they do, when they start drinking alot, water daily. easy as pie-

Thanks! btw what nutes?

 

[JackCough]

$#!@

 

[JackCough]

Take 2
fwiw plants on left are wicking plain tap 200ppm ph7.5 Osmocote PLUS 15 9 12 + micronutes incorporated into straight coco at 1Tbsp Per gallon coco.
Plants on right ebb & flow buckets straight coco house and garden at 900ish ppm ph 6.