getting shocked, electricians wanted!

[the gnome]

working with a dbl wide mobile home that was moved to a new site.
while i was doing some water hookups under it and wet with direct contact on the ground i got an elec shock when my arm touched the metal frame of the trailer.

the elec hookup from the inside service panel to the meter pole was inspected and used a 4 wire connect, 2-hot w/separted neutral and ground.
the shock isn't alot and you can't feel it when you put your palm on it but when touching a sensitive part of your skin like your wrist etc you kno your getting a jolt that gets your attention quick!

an out side receptacle was run w/GFI outlet.
using the chop saw after a rain with your feet damp and making a good ground same thing happens when you touch the saw?

even tho the elec service panel is wired right, and the service at the pole is grd'd to a rod in the ground, I'm thinking does the metal frame of the trailer need a separate ground rod hooked to it?
or maybe a direct ground from inside service panel to the frame then to a grounding rod?

seems there's a bad grd somewhere and working with water and hi amp HID equipment has me wanting to get it figured out before its set up.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Could be a few things.

1. A wire is damaged and a bare wire is rubbing up against the metal framing somewhere.

2. A circuit has lost a neutral at some point and is coming back on the ground.

3. Poor grounding, could be a circuit ground or the mobile home itself isn't grounded properly. The panel is probably bonded to the frame, so if the service isn't grounded properly this could be why the frame is becoming electrified.

It would take some knowledge to do the testing required to diagnose the problem, probably best to get an electrician to come check it out.

 

[the gnome]

thanks HH.
not only is the frame electrified, using a saw on one of the circuits is the same.
touch the metal frame of the chop saw and if your grounded you get shocked.
theres a 3 pronged tester that plugs into a outlet and it has 3 lites that activate in differing combinations and depending how they lite up it tells you there's an open ground on that line or no ground rev. polarity etc.
I'll try that and see what it says

 

[-Capfan-]

That totally sucks, but sounds funny!

a big shock or like a cow fence kinda shock ?


I once had a water heater with a short zap me when i would touch the water took me about a week before i got fed up with it!

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Yeah you can try that. If that doesn't provide you answer you will need a professional to come test shit out a little more in depth with a multimeter. Your mobile home albeit grounded might not be grounded sufficiently, sometimes another ground rod is needed.

I had a similar problem like this with my t5 fixture, the grounding prong broke off the plug and every time I would touch the metal frame of the fixture I would get a little zap. I put a new cord end on it and it stopped zapping me.

 

[the gnome]

yeah haze, I'm thinking ground prob some where..?
but its on the frame... and also in an individual separate circuit?
the power co installed a new pole for it, maybe a prob at there?

That totally sucks, but sounds funny!

a big shock or like a cow fence kinda shock ?


I once had a water heater with a short zap me when i would touch the water took me about a week before i got fed up with it!

it the kind of zap it you put your hand firmly on it you don't feel it, but it you lightly touch it with a sensitive part of your skin, it startles you pretty good.
not strong as a cow fence zapper, they hit you but good!

 

[the gnome]

ok... I found my tester that plugs into an outlet and its showing an open ground.
yeaster day it raind a little, enough to wet things a tad,
I leaned my alum ladder against the metal roof of the trailer and working with non elect tools on an adjoining metal roof separated from the one my ladder was touching I
got zapped again!

after putting a towel between the ladder and the metal it was ok.
so the entire metal roof on this trailer is hot from the exhaust vents.

what is an open ground, a ground that isn't hooked up?
where to look for it?

when they pulled the trailer in 1/2 and set it back up could this be the sign of a bare wire touching the metal frame?
but the roof isn't attached by any metal link to the frame?
the power co installed a new pole for this mobile home, could it be on the pole?
SO
i get shocked on the metal frame under the trailer when i am grounded,
Ive been shocked using a saw with damp feet plugged into a gfi exterior outlet and now the roof, again with damp feet i am the ground on this place?
if all the outlets show an open grd, then the prob would likely be in the circuit box,
correct?
OR
the pole for the trailer that has a circuit box feeding the inside service or the power pole on the side of the road?

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

It sounds to me that you either have an insufficient service ground or no service ground what so ever.

Your electrical system is most likely bonded to the metal frame of the mobile home, if the electrical service is insufficiently ground or not grounded at all this could cause you frame and your metal shell to become electrified.

You will need to have an electrician come out and test your service ground, you will either have to hook up the service ground or possibly drive another ground rod if it is already grounded.

Sometimes the local soil of the lot can be poor for grounding of the electrical service, this is why another rod is needed.

 

[the gnome]

it has 1 grd rod next to the outside service pole thats hooked to the power pole on the street.
soil is sandy and low, floods and stays wet.

I'll run and do a visual and check the inside service panel and the service connected to the pole.

this is a newer mobile home, no metal outer skin.
it was fine before they moved it last year,
I did the main connect both times between the OS service pole to the inside breaker panel using a 4 wire 2-0 w/separate grd and neutral that was permitted+inspected.
maybe i should run another grd rod and hook it to the inside service panel

thanks for the reply haze

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

It's very strange your roof is becoming electrified. The only other thing I would recommend is checking all of your connections and make sure the ground is adequately tightened from the electrical panel to the service pole and from the service pole to the ground rod.

I find it highly unlikely that a broken wire would be causing the frame and the roof to become electrified.

If you test the ground rod you should be shooting for 25 ohms per NEC code article 250.54

Are all of the electrical receptacles in the mobile home showing open ground? If they are all showing open ground that would point to the service ground. If just one circuit's worth of electrical receptacles is showing open ground and the rest are fine that would mean that circuit has a loose wire or something is not connected right.

 

[Eighths-n-Aces]

are the water lines in the mobile home copper?

they may have been using them for ground in the old location and in the new one the supply line is plastic so that ground is gone now.

it's a shot in the dark but it could explain a few things. i've seen some silly shit done with electricity

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

It just takes one mis-directed screw to hit a wire and electrify everything.

 

[the gnome]

It's very strange your roof is becoming electrified. The only other thing I would recommend is checking all of your connections and make sure the ground is adequately tightened from the electrical panel to the service pole and from the service pole to the ground rod.

I find it highly unlikely that a broken wire would be causing the frame and the roof to become electrified.

If you test the ground rod you should be shooting for 25 ohms per NEC code article 250.54

Are all of the electrical receptacles in the mobile home showing open ground? If they are all showing open ground that would point to the service ground. If just one circuit's worth of electrical receptacles is showing open ground and the rest are fine that would mean that circuit has a loose wire or something is not connected right.

yeah, all the recep. show the open ground.
i even got shocked from an outside recep. on a GFI outlet.
as for the metal roof being hot
that stumped me for a bit.
but there are some exhaust fans for the kitchen stove and attic ventilation,
there's direct metal to metal contact from the electrical fans to the metal ducting to the metal roof panels

are the water lines in the mobile home copper?

no copper, its all pex now

It just takes one mis-directed screw to hit a wire and electrify everything.

seems like it would effect things on that circuit CR,

i'm no master electrician but I'm thinking
if the screw/nail hit a hot wire the screw and everything else touching it that can conduct elec. would be hot
not from the metal roof to the metal frame and all outlets?

 

[backyardbogfan]

Start at step one - ground the trailer

Start at step one - ground the trailer

Turn off power to trailer before working on this.
Take a good sizes copper ground wire and connect it to the service ground and then attach that to a copper or steel rod driven 4-6ft into the ground.
At least then you'll have good ground.

 

[the gnome]

I'm going there today and tighten all the grounds on the 2 service panels and see whats what after that.
from the power pole it goes to the pole outside the trailer that has a breaker panel with the 200amp main breaker and a few smaller ones to feed recp on that pole.
this is where the grnd rod is located.
then the inside breaker box is about 20ft from that pole but there's no rod on that one.

if all the grounds are tight and proper, and a separate grd rod for the inside service doesn't fix it,
I'm always curious, so... is it possible for the open ground prob to be on the power pole?
the power company had to drop a pole in to feed this trailer.
this prob came up after the trailer was moved to the new site its at now.

 

[rives]

If it is a double-wide, I would suspect that when the two halves were re-connected the ground connection was somehow impaired. There must be a junction box somewhere for tying the two sides together - that would be a good spot to start looking.

Sandy soil isn't usually going to give you a very good ground. Most sand is a pretty good insulator, and the high drainage capability is also going to work against you. You might try mixing up a bucket of water with some salt added (if it isn't going to kill your lawn) and pour over the ground rod, then see if your problem still exists. If the ground rod isn't somewhere that you want to try salt water, thoroughly soak the area with your garden hose (maybe leave the hose trickling on the ground rod) and check your problem out.

You can start checking for an open ground at the main - pull the cover off and make a visual inspection to see that the grounding conductor going to the ground rod is attached. You should be able to take your meter and read from a hot wire on one of the breakers to the ground buss and read full voltage. It might also be worthwhile to check and see that the ground connection from the utility transformer to their ground rod is intact if their equipment is visible.

*edit* Looks like I was typing while you were posting. As I alluded to above, if the utility grounding isn't intact, you will have problems, but I doubt that it would show up on your tester.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

yeah, all the recep. show the open ground.
i even got shocked from an outside recep. on a GFI outlet.
as for the metal roof being hot
that stumped me for a bit.
but there are some exhaust fans for the kitchen stove and attic ventilation,
there's direct metal to metal contact from the electrical fans to the metal ducting to the metal roof panels

I give you credit on your detective work.

That exhaust fan will have a ground wire connected to the metal frame of the fan enclosure which is in direct contact with the metal roof, this is most likely how the roof is becoming electrified.

You deifitely have a grounding issue, but I dont think it's anything major. When you do some poking around you will most likely find a wire that is loose and if not another ground rod should take care of it. Just put it 6 feet away from the other one and connect the two with some #6 copper.

 

[the gnome]

ok, Ive had a chance to check it out more thoroughly on the inside.
its not all the outlets with an open grd., my bad.
Ive been working outside of the trailer for a while.
i'm using a GFI on the outside and pulling power from in the bedroom via and extension cord on the other side of the trailer
and just assumed.

some outlets are fine
some aren't.
its not on one side of the trailer either
nor is it a prob in the service panel on 1 of the 110v bars.

i checked the outside meter base/service pole that has breakers for the ac condenser unit and it also has an outlet.
this checks out fine with the tester.
all grounds are good-n-tite inside both service panels.

I think rives may have it..
the problem most likely is when they re-connected the electrical for the 2 sides of this dbl wide back together.
now to find out where these Jboxes are