Genetics or Black thumb

[bilgeweed]

I have a case of the CLAWS. It's ugly and I wish it upon no one.
I have a batch of Northern lights from "Female Seeds" that is in week
5 of flowering. This poor plant suffered from the claws most of it's grow.
It is flowering well but I'm sure the harvest will be reduced due to this.
I took clones from the N.L. one week into flowering and know the
clones are showing signs of the claw as well. Is there anything
in particular that causes this ? Could this all be in genetics ?

Soil grow- 1st batch was in my own soil mix (Vic's receipt) 2 gal.
I thought perhaps I did not mix it well and my symptoms were due to the soil.
So- the clones were planted in a 50/50 mix of Fox Farm O.F. and a
(not so hot) panting mix. ( 10 oz cups)

Water- always pHed within limits, watered when dry
Nutes- F.F. growbig, bloom, tiger ( none for clones yet)
Lights- Flower- 150 HPS Clones- 2 20W floro tubes
Temps- High 70s to low 80s
R.H.- 65%

Pic #1 is from flowering plant
Pic #2 is of clone

Thanks a bunch
bilgeweed

 

[Guest 10952]

They look like when i had mag def. I would diffenetly try to keep the temps in the lower 70s if you can. And try a lil cal-mag if you can find it. Good luck man sorry to you having a bad time.

 

[BigJilm]

Have you ever flushed the soil?
Checked pH of runoff?
How often do you fert and how much?

I have had bad luck with Cal Mag and ocean forest in the past--too much calcium.
My guess would be overfert > salt build up in soil > low pH

 

[BigJilm]

Also did you mix any dolomite lime in your soil mix?

 

[SativaJoe]

sure looks like a sativa?

sure looks like a sativa?

Never seen a NL plant with such long sativa-like leaves

 

[bilgeweed]

Thanks for looking Gentelmen. To answer a few questions

Flushing- yes I did flush the mother a time or two during it's veg time.

pH of runoff- With a two gal pot with plenty of vermic I find that any runoff
is always the same as the water. Runs thru so fast--- water/nutes in the
6.4-6.7 range
I water untill just a slight amount comes out of the bottom- usually 2 cups
every three days

Nutes- feeding of F.F. nutes. started with 1/4 then 1/2 then full strength
every other watering

Cal-Mag- never used it but the Vic's mix had lime and Epson salts added. When the clawing started, I did add some more lime and watered with epson. Didn't seem to do much.
The clones have none added yet but with 50% Ocean Forest they should not need it.

THX again
bilgeweed

 

[inc0gnit0]

I just got over the same problem. i think it was due to to much N in my organic soil mix, or maybe low ph. I transplanted to a kinder soil, they took off again after about 4 days. Are any of the leaves kinda turning up a bit as well? Say about mid ways into the leaf.

 

[inc0gnit0]

This is what one of my worst ones looked like. My homemade soil was definitly too high in N. I mixed a new batch paying better attnetion to the contents and they loved it. Adored it. They resumed beautiful speedy new growth to the point that I decided to take clones to keep them at bay and preserve the line. 4 days after taking cuttings and they've already put on nearly 2 inches of perfect green growth with no claw or other problems.

 

[bilgeweed]

Ah- Yes I have read that excess N may cause the CLAWS. The Vic's receipt I used
could have been HOT and using FF Big Grow could have added to the problem if this
was the case. But- I don't see this senario with the clone. Could a 50/50 mix
of FF Ocen forest and Whitney Farms be too high in N ?

I will say, all these plants are pretty dark green - although the mother has been
yellowing/dropping it's fan leafs like they should.

Watered Mom with pHed 6.4 this A.M. Runoff was slightly less- say 6.2 or 3

The clones are getting even more of the claw this morning. What to do ?

THX
bilgeweed

 

[Pure MoFo]

Yep, we are all in the same boat. Hope it works out !

 

[Ogstradamus]

I replied to the other thread about this...
It happens to me every time regardless of what precautions I take.

I fear one of two things:

1. Heat?

2. GH floranova + CAL-MAG is too much micronutes ( mg ) and a little too much N.

I am leaning towards #2...

GH flora-nova -
4% - 8% - 7%
CAL - 4.0%
MG - 2%


CAL-MAG-
2% - 0% - 0%
CAL - 3.2%
MG - 1.2%


Duh...as I was doing this I think I solved my problem. I use almost equal amounts of both so this would roughly equate to
7% - 8% - 7% ************** TOO MUCH N *******************
CAL - 7.2% ************** 7% CALCIUM! ******************
MG - 3.2% ************** Mg a little high ******************

If the too much N isn't already a problem, I have a shitload of calcium and magnesium locking nutes out. Would everyone agree with me here or am I just spoutin shit?

So...I'm considering now emptyin the rez, flushin and using ONLY flora-nova.
I swear when I tried only flora-nova I got MG deficiencies...but I guess that's better than overnitrification. I may go pick up some epsom salts.



BTW, didn't mean to jack your thread but this problem seems extremely relevant

 

[Sauce]

How's the soil aeration?

 

[bilgeweed]

Sauce- I always use a healthy amount of peralite with my soil. Is that what you
were after? I see you helping Pure Mofo in the other thread. Is the concense
too much N. ? As I said- my mom plants are WAY green - even at 5 weeks
into flower. (fans are yellowing) Should I flush again ? Should I stop using
Tiger Bloom ? (it has small amount of N)

To add- Mom nor clone, at any time, has shown any signs of being "burnt" from aggresive feeding.

How would one expain my clone progressing down the same path - with no nutes ???
The soil should not be that high in N.

I run a very small personal grow and don't want to battle with this again and again
if it is the strain that doesn't like my enviroment for some reason. I have grown
in my small cab for several years and have never had this exact symptom.
I'd love to get to the bottom of it's cause.

best regards
bilgeweed

 

[inc0gnit0]

It's hard to say, as far as being "burnt" It's been my experience that before you get into a full blown burn, the leaves will start to twist or claw, and usually the tips start to turn brown. It's usually the first sign of over fert.

Man... I'm still pretty new at this and all I can tell you is what worked for me. I just transplanted to a soil with very little nutes and mine prevailed in less than a week. I may also add that untill I was sure they were "well", I gave them only water. Sometimes a transplant's not a good idea or even feasable. I could be wrong about the N, (but I don't think so). But I'm quite sure it was not due to ph. I learned to get a handle on that bitch a while ago. I wish I could be of more help, I know how it ruins your day(s) when the ladies aren't up to par. If I discover anything else, will let you know.

You say the clones were fine, but now are clawing too? How long have they been rooted?

 

[Sauce]

It's hard to say, as far as being "burnt" It's been my experience that before you get into a full blown burn, the leaves will start to twist or claw, and usually the tips start to turn brown. It's usually the first sign of over fert.

Yeah, your (bilgeweed) leaf tips aren't browning or yellowing yet so I wouldn't sweat it. The top leaves are the only ones that look claw like, I'd wait before acting on anything.

 

[Blackmelo]

hey bilge,
I've had that symptom happen before. I reckon it has alot to do with genetics as it is only one of my strains that has ever done it.

Better ventilation cleared it up for me. The affected leaves stayed curled for their entire life but all new growth came out straight as can be.

If you have only curled leaves with no brown spots or discoloration I don't think it is due to a wrong ph...