genetically indica dominant growth, with sativa dominant High

[Jhhnn]

Mandala claims that their Ganesh grows like an indica, smokes like a sativa. Haven't tried it. Their description of the 2 Mandala strains I've tried, Satori & Rishi Kush, were pretty accurate. Well, other than the Rishi Kush having more clout than they claimed.

Three out of 4 Satori females had classic indica growth patterns, with one being quite short. The fourth was quite sativa-ish, seemingly the most potent. It's hard to tell with one hitter quitters. The stuff is like a Star Trek transporter beam- you don't feel a thing until you notice that you're in a very different place.

 

[Toosweet]

hmmm slightly off subject but anyone know what happens if you harvest sativa's early?

 

[botrytiscinerea]

hmmm slightly off subject but anyone know what happens if you harvest sativa's early?

Earlier more cerebral later more of a sedater, Querkle is one polyhybrid indica I know of that expresses sativa when cut early (With Jack Herer and Cinderella99 being the two breeds that express indica in growth with a cerebral dominance in function). Way too early of a chop will be a massive decrease in quality, taste, and function; I always determine a harvest by looking at the capitate glands at the ends of the trichomes using a 30x magnifying loupe. When they're sparkly and start swelling with a bit of a fog in the orbs, I'd say shes in window if you're looking for early but I always wait for at least one amber cap to express before I cut an early plant, I let indicas or anything I want more of a body VERY late and about 40/60 amber to cloudy caps...feels dreamy I think

 

[Jhhnn]

hmmm slightly off subject but anyone know what happens if you harvest sativa's early?

Depends on what you mean by early. Way too early & they lack clout, which was always the problem with outdoor homegrown Mexican. OTOH, the high is clearest & wildest at the early end of ripeness. If that's what you want in a sativa, don't wait for a lot of amber trichomes. Don't be afraid to sample along the way- ignore the taste, do a little wake & bake to start straight & see how it feels. Once you have solid potency, you just need to wait if you want it to be mellower, stonier, or if it's still flowering & you'll get more yield. Lots of factors. It's just flying by the seat of your pants, basically, until you achieve a certain intimacy with a given strain, grow it more than once.

 

[Mustafunk]

This has always been the holy grail chased by many growers and breeders alike. Since the 70s, people started mixing genetics to try to reduce the maturation of the exotic imports from the tropical areas while keeping both the sweetness and the great high intact...

But after mixing kush genetics in the pudding, it never was the same again with all the skunk and modern hybrids! I guess it's really difficult but for sure with the magic of genetics, amazing stuff comes from proper breeding work!! Recombining 2 different strains sometimes can bring awesome and unexpected stuff to the table. Probably there are faster "sativas" or stimulating hashplants from North India and other places that could be used with great success for this task.

Meanwhile, I will keep dreaming on 10 week tropical plants with no ceiling and no comedown energetic effect!

Vibes!

 

[fabvariousk]

Bogglegum can be like that. At least it did ten years ago when I grew it.
One of the best strains ever. I should get some more.

 

[DEATH BY SNUSNU]

Reminds me of a convo had once wit a random old head @ a fest. He swore that "we" ruined the MJ since the end of the 80's everything puts him to sleep. Being a fan of the C99 and snocap I wasn't trying to hear him. Though now in my olderage I think this dude was spot on. Anyone with Mexi mom's please let that girl out, we miss her dearly.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

I think C99 is basically 'supposed' to be a sativa high with an indica style growth pattern.

Not super thick leaves, but short height and short flowering period.

yup this is exactly what I was gonna say. Also her sister Apollo-11 is like that too. If you can find the original brothers grim cuts then you are golden.

 

[DemonPigeon]

I don't think shape and CBD content are connected.

Fiber hemp is the original meaning of "sativa" and despite being skinny with thin leaves it can be up to 20% CBD. (The dominant Cannabinoid is controlled by a single allele though obviously there are probably a lot of other genes relating to terpenes and minor cannabinoid percentages)

Plants effects are determined by their Cannabinoid (although actually many cannabis plants share very similar cannabinoid profiles) and especially terpene profiles, and the way they develop trichromes (and the cannnabinoids inside them) during their flowering periods, also their finishing times.
(Also of course what we feed them and when we harvest)
I see no reason why any of these should be linked to leaf shape/overall form.

Besides some plants have been found to change from indica to sativa shaped (or the other way around) depending on factors like altitude.

I mean really Cannabis is all one species and most of the things that we call indica or sativa are totally unconnected to each other.

Like with Ruderalis, it's an allele, not a species



Jeffrey Raber, Ph.D. said the following:

“The data shows that indica and sativa is just morphology,”

“It's a misperception that indica will put you to sleep or that sativa is more energetic.”

“A terpene analysis is like a fingerprint. It can tell you if it’s the same strain under different names. We can see strains going by different names that have the same terpene profile. We now know those strains are identical.”

 

[bloyd]

some monkey hazes will fit that bill. most have little stretch yet retain some attributes of the haze high.

Though the one I liked and kept has a good amount of stretch to her, with super frosty fire haze rock like nuggets.

It seems true sativa/indica f2's is a good place to explore

 

[yujin]

Typically, that type of high comes from the longer flowering sativas. It's kind of off topic, but I was talking with Robert Clarke the other day. And he was saying that the old thought of there being cannabis sativa and cannabis indica both being "drug" varieties was off. Now they think that all "drug" varieties of cannabis, are cannabis indica. While cannabis sativa is actually what we commonly think of as hemp. So technically everything we smoke is an indica, and everything used as what we would call hemp, is actually cannabis sativa. But anyway, that type of soaring high comes when the resin glands are allowed a bit longer to mature. You get more of a complex cannabinoid profile and a more cerebral high.

 

[DemonPigeon]

Typically, that type of high comes from the longer flowering sativas. It's kind of off topic, but I was talking with Robert Clarke the other day. And he was saying that the old thought of there being cannabis sativa and cannabis indica both being "drug" varieties was off. Now they think that all "drug" varieties of cannabis, are cannabis indica. While cannabis sativa is actually what we commonly think of as hemp. So technically everything we smoke is an indica, and everything used as what we would call hemp, is actually cannabis sativa. But anyway, that type of soaring high comes when the resin glands are allowed a bit longer to mature. You get more of a complex cannabinoid profile and a more cerebral high.

Tom Hill says the same thing, but since they're just different cultivars of the same species and totally capable of interbreeding I can't help but think that all fiber and drug plants should both be "Sativa", it's the older name (which is what wins in scientific nomenclature) and it doesn't imply an indian origin like Indica does. Maybe you could say "Cannabis Sativa ssp. Indica" and "Cannabis Sativa ssp. Sativa" but that still doesn't solve the fact the name Indica seems rather misleading geographically.

On the other hand R. C. Clarke is a Cannabis god so maybe I should shut up

 

[idiit]

is it possible to have completely Indica dominant plants in vegetation
but completely sativa dominant in the way it produces THC, Sativa high?

i've been looking for some good bud structure parents to mate with some of my up, clean, clear, energetic/euphoric sativas. my motive was to create some good outdoor strains that yield well with commercial appeal for outdoor growers including me.

here are some landraces already bred by nature that have potential:

kandahar
durban poison indica
nepalese
malawi gold
swazi gold
cohiba
congo
angola red

the problem so far is that the better the bud structure the muddier the high effects . i'm presently looking at an indica dominant durban poison, or a good malawi gold as top candidates to start personally exploring. swazi gold (malawi gold/swazi rooibaard) might be good as well.

 

[Mustafunk]

Typically, that type of high comes from the longer flowering sativas. It's kind of off topic, but I was talking with Robert Clarke the other day. And he was saying that the old thought of there being cannabis sativa and cannabis indica both being "drug" varieties was off. Now they think that all "drug" varieties of cannabis, are cannabis indica. While cannabis sativa is actually what we commonly think of as hemp. So technically everything we smoke is an indica, and everything used as what we would call hemp, is actually cannabis sativa. But anyway, that type of soaring high comes when the resin glands are allowed a bit longer to mature. You get more of a complex cannabinoid profile and a more cerebral high.

In fact that's not what R. Clarke says but what the proper DNA studies and scientists tent to agree acording to the last findings (Hillig 2004). Not only that, plus the studies on the cannabis origins and how it was dispersed along the world can confirm this easily.

So yeah, I'm sorry for all the seedbanks, books and dispensaries using the old terminology but that's how it seems to be and we growers should help to change the old terms, because the traditional indica(stone)/sativa(high) terminology is something really linked to the cultivators and common uses and now it seems to be outdated.

As for the high, I agree with the long flowering plants developing complex cannabinoids but so far I've seen also very interesting 10 weekers with unexpected clear/energetic effect and no comedown, sometimes even more than the separate parents! In this case I guess it could be just about the accidental coincidence of finding the proper terpene/cannabinoid combination (the prize winner!) and synergy rather than genetics only. I think genetics will definitely give the potential, but proper selection is needed to make the magic happen and let the statistics and casualities do their job. If all the plants were perfect, we growers will miss the uncertainty of not knowing what could happen or how a certain plant will smoke at the decisive time! It's like wining the lotery!

Vibes.

 

[idiit]

So yeah, I'm sorry for all the seedbanks, books and dispensaries using the old terminology but that's how it seems to be and we growers should help to change the old terms, because the traditional indica(stone)/sativa(high) terminology is something really linked to the cultivators and common uses and now it seems to be outdated.

^^ much respect as always mustafunk.

at a gut level i'm sayin' no.

i'm from hemp basket country; kansas. i was taught when i was young and cute enough to get taken on by the older hippies in the middle '70's. we knew hemp. we hated hemp. real hemp (gives you a headache, low potency, totally ruins any seedstock once it's entered via stray hemp pollenation from the quadtrillion wild hemp males in the vicinity) is totally different in my book from quality up energetic psychoactive highly potent landrace sativas.

calling hemp weed and grail landrace sativas by the same term is like calling a female gorrilla a woman. it can get real ugly from there!

scientists call humidity dew point. how many field workers, golfers, etc. bitch about the dew point? none. we bitch about the humidity. we know that nasty dirty slimy clammy skin effect as "humidity".

basically, fuck calling grail sativa landraces hemp.

when the academics get too academic they need to go into teaching as they are no longer able to compete out in the real world; rodney dangerfield's "Back to School" movie made brutal fun of the academic professors' failure to grasp reality from a real vantage point.

samtheskunkman and clarke are deserving much respect but on this issue they are full of shit from a real world, real "hemp" perspective.

try getting ppl all too familiar with real hemp weed to go along with this academic nomenclature bs!

won't happen.