Gavita 6/750 Heat Issues

[tussenvanons]

I recently set up a room and have a 3 ton a/c unit in place in a room with just shy of 1300 sq/ft. Theoretically I should be able to cool up to 8,000 watts no problem. I currently have 9 gavita 6/750 complete fixtures and it's the dead of winter and I can't keep temps under control when all the lights are at 100%.

Doing the math on the high side (5btu's per watt x 6,750 watts = 33,750 btu's) I should be in the clear however this is not the case. Any one out there got some advice. I'd rather not dim the lights due to the shift in spectrum but I do have a problem and didn't know if I could have done something wrong.

Any advice is appreciate or if anyone's hooked up some of these de bulbs and they should be able to cool (on paper) but are unable to do so in practice it would be great to hear from you to know I'm not the only one with this problem.

Thanks in advance guys.

 

[Lil' Brodhi]

Bump.. Almost made the switch cause a good deal came my way but decided not too at the last minute because I was afraid they were going to run too hot(was planning on doing 8 thousand watts in a 9x17 room sealed with 2 2ton mini splits). Glad I didn't go through with it from the looks of your thread. How high are your ceilings?

 

[tussenvanons]

I have 8' ceilings. The dimensions of my room are roughly 12x14. I can run 6 lights in there at 100% (4500w total) with no problem and can control temps with a 3 ton unit. If I run all 9 lights at 500w (4500w total) the temps will shoot up and peak around 88-90F at times. So the math there doesn't make sense, so I've broken the theory and it goes against what many people say that a watt is a watt. These DE bulbs need a minimum amount of heat to run properly.

More fixtures maintaining the same wattage will require MORE cooling!!

I'm getting a 1 ton window a/c unit that I'm going to be adding to the room. This will then be equal to the 4tons you had in mind and I'll hopefully be able to run at a minimum 6,750w (all at 100%) ideally 7,425w (all at 825w). I'll be sure to update you and everyone else as there is a lack of practical real world information on this technology, at least from what I was able to find.

Brodhi were you going to run the 1000w or 750w?

 

[Epiphyte]

I have 8 750w gavitas in a 11x19.5x8'H room. I have 12 inch and 10 inch can fans with carbon filters for exhaust; it's about 2700 cfm in all. Unfortunately I just have a 6in and a 4inch intake which was poor planning. Long story short, I've just run 3 lights (due to the amount of plants being ready) with the 10" exhaust and the 6" intake. It keeps the temp about 82f but I run the lights at night. I'll let you know what happens when I turn the rest on in about two weeks. The intake has been an issue. I didn't want to fuck with a/cs but that 3 ton should be enough. Is there a chance it's broken?

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Have you took and IR temp gun and measured the temp coming out of the AC?


I don't have hands on experience with DE yet, but perhaps your AC install isn't up to snuff. Undercharge, possible leak?


Make sure your air handler is clean as well as your outdoor unit free of any debris. My 31k Split stop cooling even 6k and I went and looked at the outdoor unit only to find it caked with dry grass and cob webs, etc. Hosed it down as well as cleaned my indoor horizontal blower wheel and it cooled 8k w/ deheuy and burner to 79-82F. This is in the winter so not sure if it'll work for it all in the summer. This was a DIY install so I'm not 100% I'm cooling at full capacity.

I've got a 2 ton split struggling to cool 3600w + burner and dehuey. I think we may have a small leak/ botched, but perhaps it's just undersized..Going to have a pro take a look at it in the spring.

 

[tussenvanons]

The a/c being broken was one of the first things I thought. The compressor has plenty of space, I've check the connections for leaks multiple times with a spray bottle, electrical is all done right drainage hose drains the lines all look good. The air that comes out is quite chillly so everything seems to be in order. Beyond that I don't know what else I could do besides call an HVAC tech, but that's really a last resort and I'd like to avoid that.

The AC has been a big issue and I was wondering if it could be the problem. Any HVAC techs on here have any advice please chime in. FYI The unit I have is the ideal air 3 ton mini split with heat pump.

 

[david lynch]

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[tussenvanons]

As far as debris goes on the outside unit is clean as a whistle. I've kept it clear of any snow and made sure all sides meet/exceed instillation requirements for space. I've checked/cleaned filters but I have not checked the internal blower I'll look into that but from what I understand that's one hell of a process and the unit isn't even 2 months old and has had minimal usage outside of testing really. I'm only getting the room dialed in and the lights burned in properly.

The ideal air 15 SEER unit with heat pump is rated for ambient temperatures down to 5 F so it should work fine (I've only gotten below that on one day where I am and this problem was occurring well before that. The lines it comes with are precharged and they're also aluminum braided opposed to copper and they really didn't get bent at all anyways. As far as leaks go on the connections I've checked that and it looks fine when I spray it with a soapy water.


I have my a/c set to 67 now and with 6 lights it can keep things right in the mid 70s 7 lights slightly dimmed down about 15% it can keep in the same temp rage 8 and 9 lights it seems to have trouble keeping up. If I were to use an IR gun what temp should I be expecting out of the air handler?

 

[tussenvanons]

Ok so here's some more useful information I got from the guys at Ideal air when I called the support line.

What I was told is that I should build a type of "dog house" around my unit. The little hut should have about 3 feet on the front and back as well as at least a foot on either side and the top (you can have a slanted roof so snow and rain rolls right off but just make sure the side that's near the backend of the unit has some more clearance. In my situation since I only have a a little over a foot and a half from the back of the unit to my house I'm just going to leave the left and right side walls anywhere from 3-6" off of the house to have that as my intake air and drill a few 2" holes on the left side where the unit intakes air. The front wall should have ventilation slats where the air blows out and a few approx. 2" holes in the left side and potentially back where air is drawn in. The heat from the motor in the compressor should raise the ambient temperature in the hut and allow the unit to operate more efficiently.

Apparently starting in the low 50s/high 40s is when cooling performance starts to decrease. Many people in cold climates build these "dog houses" around the outside condenser to raise the ambients temperature around the unit to increase its performance.

Also so I don't forget make sure it's built so it can easily be disassembled once the cold months pass so that way you don't overheat once the warm months come back.

I'm going to try and repost this information on a thread that's more related to mini split issues as well or if anyone already knows of a thread that it belongs feel free to spread the word.

 

[HL45]

One of the local growshops near me stopped carrying ideal air because 1 in 3 failed.

Something to consider is how many cfm your air handler moves...1300 sqft seems like a big space for one mini split..

 

[tussenvanons]

One of the local growshops near me stopped carrying ideal air because 1 in 3 failed.

Something to consider is how many cfm your air handler moves...1300 sqft seems like a big space for one mini split..

1 in 3 failed really? Two people I know use them, hopefully I'm not lucky number 3, or unlucky for that manner.

The 1300 sq.ft. is why I think I'm adding a 1 ton window unit.

There were definitely other options that I was looking at but for the price, DIY and BTUs at the time I went with the Ideal. I heard that the cooling only units aren't top notch, why I went with the heat pump one. Next purchase I would like to get a 2x 3 ton units with dual heads each leading to two rooms (a head to room 1 and a head to room 2 on both units but only one room would be going at a time). I couldn't find a unit that would have two air handlers that would both max the units cooling potential, maybe this will come out in the near future.

It's sad to say but I don't expect top notch quality from anyone who creates products specifically targeted toward us growers, they mostly tend to be low quality and high price, not to say that there aren't some good manufacturers out there, that just tends to be the case.

 

[jav2043]

Interested as well as to why 3 tons not enough. What other equipment do you have in the room and how's your insullation?

 

[divine moments]

Is your room sealed or vented?

 

[tussenvanons]

Jav:
I ran some tests just to see how the 3 ton unit would work with all the lights. The results I was getting was from an empty room with no other equipment running. My insulation is r-13 on all walls and ceiling with a concrete floor. I built a room within a room. Works great in the dead of winter when it hits about -5 outside and I can easily maintain temp in the mid 60s with no heater.

Also I have a dehumidifier I plan on running when the room goes into production mode.

Divine:
My room is completely sealed.

 

[tussenvanons]

I also just got a reply from the Gavita support team saying that 36000BTUs should be able to cool 9 1000w units so 9 6/750s should be no problem. However Ideal air said that 9 1000w fixtures would be too much and their btu calculator says the same (especially when you factor in the ballasts in the room, even tho the gavita ballasts don't even feel like they're on)

 

[Vash]

Sealed....?? Sounds like to me you're having a heat buildup because there's not enough being exhausted out of there quick enough. Yeah, you got cold air coming in, but it's competing with the heat from the lights. You got any fans in there? Remember cold air is heavy, so it'll be concentrated in the lower spectrum of the room, where your air intake should be. If it were me, I'd increase my exhaust. Let me cover my ass by saying " 'scuse me" if anything I said is out of place.
Good luck OP with your dilemma.

 

[tussenvanons]

I also just got a reply from the Gavita support team saying that 36000BTUs should be able to cool 9 1000w units so 9 6/750s should be no problem. However Ideal air said that 36000BTUs would only keep up with about 7 units (and it barely does with 7).

Just some more info for consideration

 

[tussenvanons]

Yea if I exhausted air it wouldn't be a sealed room. A truly sealed room does not have intake and exhaust. The only way to fight temperatures in a sealed room is more a/c (as long as all equipment is working properly)

I have 8 oscillating fans in the room and no stale spots where there is no air movement.

 

[tussenvanons]

Have you took and IR temp gun and measured the temp coming out of the AC?


I don't have hands on experience with DE yet, but perhaps your AC install isn't up to snuff. Undercharge, possible leak?


Make sure your air handler is clean as well as your outdoor unit free of any debris. My 31k Split stop cooling even 6k and I went and looked at the outdoor unit only to find it caked with dry grass and cob webs, etc. Hosed it down as well as cleaned my indoor horizontal blower wheel and it cooled 8k w/ deheuy and burner to 79-82F. This is in the winter so not sure if it'll work for it all in the summer. This was a DIY install so I'm not 100% I'm cooling at full capacity.

I've got a 2 ton split struggling to cool 3600w + burner and dehuey. I think we may have a small leak/ botched, but perhaps it's just undersized..Going to have a pro take a look at it in the spring.

I measured the temp coming out of the air handler and it's a solid 20F below the ambient room temp (the customer support rep said it should be at least 15 if not 20 below ambient room temp).

My conclusion is that more a/c is needed. Going by the btu calculator on ideal air's website I'm going to need 5 tons to cool those 9 complete fixtures. Even tho the ballasts are not very warm at all (IR gun was only coming out between 95-100, 95 closest to ac and 100 furthest away). Escpecially compared to the lights where the inside reflector was about 400f and the bulb must have been about 600f ( i really couldnt see where I was aming or how accurate the $30 Ryobi IR temp gun is.

 

[Reel Tight]

I'm a little concerned I just bought 12 of the 750 de, for a room the measures 15×30×9. I was hoping to cool this with one 5 ton, what's the amount of btu your coming up with to cool each fixtur? Are you running a burner or on the bottle?