Fungal to bacterial ratio

[Great outdoors]

Does anyone know what the fungal/ bacterial ratio is on Cannabis?
My feeling is it would be stronger on the fungal side from the sheer size it grows. Like a small tree by summers end. Never have been able to find any true studies on the subject. If anyone knows of one, would be great to see.
Here's Elaine Ingham on the subject of balance with different crops.

https://youtu.be/KN2F4PsGgnA

 

[Growenhaft]

unfortunately i can only find this pdf in german.
It follows from this that the condition of the soil must be considered as a whole. you will not release polar bears in the Sahara.
it is the same in the ground. life and living space must be consistent.

the pdf is about experiments with sandy brown earth. it was carried out on behalf of the Ministry of Agriculture of the Federal Republic of Germany. it contains a formula for calculating the soil life as a whole and in relation to each other ... pretty much what you want.

 

[Great outdoors]

unfortunately i can only find this pdf in german.
It follows from this that the condition of the soil must be considered as a whole. you will not release polar bears in the Sahara.
it is the same in the ground. life and living space must be consistent.

the pdf is about experiments with sandy brown earth. it was carried out on behalf of the Ministry of Agriculture of the Federal Republic of Germany. it contains a formula for calculating the soil life as a whole and in relation to each other ... pretty much what you want.

Would be an interesting read but not finding a way to translate the PDF yet.
I'm sure someone knows how but my computer literacy is limited.

 

[Great outdoors]

Just found this excellent video. Pretty much answers the question and it was much like I thought. Veg you can be fairly bacterial but as time goes on you definitely want to head to a quite fungal dominant soil. I would place cannabis in the same class as corn just below perennial shrubs. You can see from the chart it is quite fungally dominant with only a low percentage of bacteria.

https://youtu.be/DPJu6h8sxYQ

 

[Great outdoors]

Theoretically if the video above is true you could track your fungal to bacterial dominance by tracking soil pH. If your pH drops through the season, then it is mission accomplished on increasing your fungal dominance for flowering season when it's needed.

 

[Great outdoors]

Wow this forum is truly dead. Can't even get a discussion going on fungal/ bacterial dominance in the organics forum.

Anyways found another good one. Some good talk in the beginning and then lots of talk about their compost. A few points in there but you have to scan through a bit.

https://youtu.be/JGxSDhnvUUc

 

[St. Phatty]

How do you count it ?

Number of Organisms, Weight of Organisms, or something else ?

 

[flylowgethigh]

I have a tree service bringing me the chopped up tops of hardwood trees. The pile grows with each delivery. I put urea on top before it rains. So far I have been turning the piles with a machine, but a small blower and aeration of the pile, solar powered, sounds like a good idea.


https://conscious-compost.com/aerated-static-pile-composting/

 

[KIS]

Does anyone know what the fungal/ bacterial ratio is on Cannabis?
My feeling is it would be stronger on the fungal side from the sheer size it grows. Like a small tree by summers end. Never have been able to find any true studies on the subject. If anyone knows of one, would be great to see.
Here's Elaine Ingham on the subject of balance with different crops.

https://youtu.be/KN2F4PsGgnA

Fungal to bacterial ratios fluctuate all the time in the soil depending on the seasons, moisture content (hydrology), oxygen levels, root biomass, etc....so basing anything off of it is nearly impossible based on my conversations with various soil scientists that I've brought this question up with. I talked to multiple folks and saw research presented on this at the International Soil Scientist Society meeting a few years back on this topic and then just last week with a soil scientist focused on fertility and biology through the North Dakota University Extension Services.

In addition, trying to lump all bacteria and all fungi into nothing more than a ratio doesn't take into account the diversity of those microbial communities. I don't a biomass ratio can possibly tell you the whole story or allow you to make actionable decisions about your soil health. Hope that helps.

 

[Great outdoors]

Fungal to bacterial ratios fluctuate all the time in the soil depending on the seasons, moisture content (hydrology), oxygen levels, root biomass, etc....so basing anything off of it is nearly impossible based on my conversations with various soil scientists that I've brought this question up with. I talked to multiple folks and saw research presented on this at the International Soil Scientist Society meeting a few years back on this topic and then just last week with a soil scientist focused on fertility and biology through the North Dakota University Extension Services.

In addition, trying to lump all bacteria and all fungi into nothing more than a ratio doesn't take into account the diversity of those microbial communities. I don't a biomass ratio can possibly tell you the whole story or allow you to make actionable decisions about your soil health. Hope that helps.

Awesome info, thanks for the reply.
I am more of a feel growing guy anyways, but trying to follow good scientific information. Not really the type to scope samples or pH my water and such. Just try to mimic nature and really believe in the permaculture way with as many local materials as possible.
I have been doing the no till for about 10yrs now. The first 5yrs I really only focused on bacteria. Only in the last 5 years have I realized the importance of fungal and it seems as more research is done we move more and more to the fungal side.
To me it makes sense if we are fairly bacterial in veg and then try to move towards a fungal dominant soil for flower.

 

[Microbeman]

Fungal to bacterial ratios fluctuate all the time in the soil depending on the seasons, moisture content (hydrology), oxygen levels, root biomass, etc....so basing anything off of it is nearly impossible based on my conversations with various soil scientists that I've brought this question up with. I talked to multiple folks and saw research presented on this at the International Soil Scientist Society meeting a few years back on this topic and then just last week with a soil scientist focused on fertility and biology through the North Dakota University Extension Services.

In addition, trying to lump all bacteria and all fungi into nothing more than a ratio doesn't take into account the diversity of those microbial communities. I don't a biomass ratio can possibly tell you the whole story or allow you to make actionable decisions about your soil health. Hope that helps.

I agree. I think the fungal:bacterial ratio originates from a bit of hype [just my opinion]. Perhaps a way for some to make money on testing? As you state the microbial make up can change from one day to the next. However, there are certain plant types, like trees and shrubs that definitely need a fungal soil (acidic). An established fungal soil is not something which is easily created.

There are some growers who claim that a compost tea highly populated with fungal hyphae has resulted in vigorous cannabis growth but there is no solid evidence of this which I have seen.

 

[flylowgethigh]

I had some tea that was about a week old. It reeked. I figure it was chock full of bacteria, so it went in the pots. To maintain balance, I also brewed up some Rootwise, tossed in the enzymes, and inoculated with it. Plus a bunch of mineral goodness.

I will probably kill the plants, but they are starting to show leaf color deficiencies like the plants in the big tent. It could also be the light, as these were spoiled with vegging under the sun.

 

[dlxtpnuo]

If you add too many nutes to compost, this is like PUTTING SUGAR IN HOME BREW BEER. The resulting mixture FIZZES UP WITH MICROBIAL ACTIVITY.

 

[dlxtpnuo]

This may point to nutrients being something of an art form. I therefore reccomend this for nubes, which is fool proof, and perfectly adaquate for the entire growth cycle. https://www.diy.com/departments/west...7859151_BQ.prd

https://www.diy.com/ideas-advice/compost-buying-guide/PROD_npcart_100687.art

 

[Organilush]

I am curious....


How would one go about making their soil change from being more bacterial dominant to being more fungal dominant later in the season/during flowering?

I am aware of using lactic acid bacteria, I've give my soil some LAB "tea" a few times through out the year.

But what can be done to increase the fungal population?

Will mulching the soil with different materials play any role in this?...as in, will mulching with certain organic materials promote more "bacteria" and others promote more "fungi"?


.

 

[Great outdoors]

I am curious....


How would one go about making their soil change from being more bacterial dominant to being more fungal dominant later in the season/during flowering?

I am aware of using lactic acid bacteria, I've give my soil some LAB "tea" a few times through out the year.

But what can be done to increase the fungal population?

Will mulching the soil with different materials play any role in this?...as in, will mulching with certain organic materials promote more "bacteria" and others promote more "fungi"?


.

Wood chips as a mulch would certainly be fungal dominant. You could also move into fungal dominant compost teas as the season progresses. Malted barley also seems to promote fungi.
Myself I do no till mounds outside. Every year they get a bit bigger as I add about 6 - 8 inches of new soil with plenty of amendments that is certainly bacterial dominant. But the soil below should be fungal dominant from the years of carbon added and no till. My thought is the plant gets it's bacterial dominance in the early stages growing in the new soil, and as time goes on grows into the fungal dominant base. As time goes on the surface soil should become more fungal as well.

 

[flylowgethigh]

I use these products. https://rootwisesoildynamics.com/

My soil can sometimes really reek of bacteria. When I first mixed it up in the dead of winter, I kept a trash can of soil inside. Messed with my sinuses.

 

[JustGrowing420]

One would think that cannabis as an annual would prefer bacterial soils, regardless of our characterization of our plants as "trees", they are really not.

I also agree that the soil food web is fluctuating all the time based on many things like your inputs, season/temperature and more as others have said..

But also, as I understand it, in a healthy living soil the plants themselves play a big role in what lives around it's roots by using their exudates.

Also Growenhaft is right, especially for outdoors, you need to work with what is already there and maintain a diversity of life, which eventually brings balance in turn.

Generally I know jack shit, but I just finished Teaming with microbes and wanted to join the discussion!

 

[Growenhaft]

What many do not want to believe ... cannabis basically does not need any bacteria or fungi ... it also works very well without it.

Cannabis did not originate on a humus-rich soil ... cannabis originated in the sandy stony mountain regions.

I am sure that it was the soil that separated hops and cannabis ... hops in humus and cannabis in the sandy, actually very nutrient-poor medium.

if you take a closer look at the region in which cannabis originated, consider the period from when hops and cannabbis developed from a plant, you will not miss the fact that a mountain developed from a flat steppe at precisely this time ... by shifting the earth plates.

that means two fundamental things have changed for our plant within a relatively short period of time.

1. the medium
2. the altitude of the location.

This shift did not happen fast enough for the plant not to be able to adapt.

she had to develop new survival strategies. was exposed to a completely different climate, more intense sunlight ... also the bad rays.

she had to find ways to take in the little food that was in the ground ... she had to start doing chemistry in a higher mass.

it is a very exciting story in which fungi and bacteria play a very subordinate role.

The special thing about cannabis is therefore to also grow it in contaminated soil ... soils that are contaminated with heavy metals and poisons ... to clean the soil again. i have seen laboratory values ​​of the soils before and after 3 seasons of cultivation. in the starting soil there were hardly any significant strains of bacteria and fungi ... after 3 years there were many ... but still no comparison to a soil that can be described as healthy.

the question arises.

who needs whom more urgently?

do the fungi and bacteria benefit more from a symbiosis with our roots ...?

the most impressive cannabis plant i have ever seen, stood on an old abandoned military site of the russians in the sand ... cih am not even able to describe it even remotely, so i do without it.

 

[JustGrowing420]

What you are saying though applies to varieties not so far removed from the wild (almost non-existent from what we know).
Cannabis may have begun this way but in the time we live, I don't think that it has much relationship with what you describe.

Also I don't think that there is any place on earth completely devoid of microbial activity.
So putting a cannabis plant of today (or from yesterday for that matter) in a completely sterilized medium without ever feeding it somehow (organically or not), will result in the plant being healthy??

With the way we have selectively bred until now maybe this discussion is relevant.

This whole thing certainly looks like a hype with all the marketing, but take the information that surfaces as more research is being done and put it to use by yourself.
We are generally too intrusive and step in these processes too much.
Besides restoring an unbalanced or damaged soil, in a well established ecosystem I don't think you need to be pouring in "microbial inoculants" and other soil enhancing shit.
You just need to not fuck things up by intervening. What we are discussing of course does not apply to indoor gardening, that is another story.

Fungi and bacteria don't need to play a central role in a story such as yours, but it is enough that they are there doing their thing, away from the limelight.

Also about cleaning soils, I have read that cannabis acts as a bio-accumulator, but where do all these metals eventually go? I don't believe cannabis metabolizes them? Don't they end up in the soil again after plant matter decays?

There is no one needing the other more, that is symbiosis, as long as one does not hurt the other and both benefit, it does not matter so much who benefits more.
(Does not apply to human interactions, only in plant kingdom).