Food consumption in flower?

[f-e]

Do plants have lower feed demand during flowering?
I'm not interested in feed charts, I'm Interested in observations.

After you go 12/12 and preflower turns to bloom accumulation at perhaps 3 weeks, do you notice lower feed use?

This might be in DWC where the EC was dropping in weeks 1-3 but not dropping so much in later weeks. Or perhaps is was rising in weeks 1-3 but rises more in week 4 onward.

Maybe you are in a soil, and stop feeding at 4 weeks.

Perhaps you use a drip system, and notice the runoff EC increases. Perhaps abruptly as I'm seeing. Leading me to this question.


I have been searching, and through the mist, there is a picture emerging of plants having to load up on some things prior to bloom, and research being done during bloom to keep these things available. There is certainly a story of salt balance, where the plants wants to be as high an EC as possible internally (without overfeed signs) and that we must keep pushing through veg. To get that salt level up. Keeping it in them requires keeping it in the substrate to stop it coming back out the plant, or the salts in the plant sucking up excess water. I'm not trying to stop feeding them, I'm just interested in tank observations really. Then what I'm seeing might make more sense to me.

 

[DARKSIDER]

Im running 2 drip systems atami wilma rdwc systems and my flowering is at 2.0 to 2.4 at the moment 5 weeks into flower and no signs of overfeeding no burnt tips never changed the water at all over 5 weeks but have to top it up every few days at least 6 gallon in each sometimes more and these were rooted in 4 inch rockwool blocks so i would imagine there maybes would be salt build up but i aint seeing any bad signs touch wood.. Good Question f-e.

 

[f-e]

Just topping it up with the same EC each time pal?

 

[DARKSIDER]

Just topping it up with the same EC each time pal?

I am now m8 but i am not topping my ec with base nutes i use calmag once i hit the 2.0 ec at this stage I add a bit more calmag, as im all ready into week 5 and from week six i will start just adding water if needed no nutes seems to be working and these are all stardawg manny clones finished in another 3 weeks max cannot complain my friend and yes the pump would of been perfect for me in your other thread but i need the filters on mine just in case of any debris falling into res and blocking pipes but hey man thanks for the usefull info its always appreciated and at them prices well worth the money..

 

[moose eater]

Week 2-3 through week 5+ in bloom there's an observable increase in H2O uptake, which means feeding more often than not. If feed is mixed somewhat uniformly, I can watch the frequency of watering change over that period. Over-feeding versus later stage of bloom growth; both can result in slowing of the uptake of H2O.

Those are my (somewhat condensed) observations.

 

[f-e]

People are liking your post DS
Here's the filter info I forgot you asked for...
https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijua...umps-the-latest-thing?p=18094589#post18094589

So let me get this right. You made up your tank at 12/12 day, and were topping it up with both feed and calmag. Now at week 5, or some time before, you stopped giving more feed, and just top up with water and calmag? So, pulling the info I want from that, you stopped giving actual feed at some point during the first 5 weeks, and don't expect to add any more?

Blimey.


Moose, you find they stop drinking so much during the final push?
I have noticed such, but usually along with the runoff getting darker. Promoted by my lowering EC a lot. I think root collapse. I have not got that figured out yet. It does seem that really light feeding leads to what's best described as rot though. Maybe it's actually microlife though, better able to live in the much reduced salt conditions. I don't want to pass judgement, as the plants seem fine and the roots don't mush. It's just more colour. Lots more colour. Lower EC within the root will mean less water pulled in, so the bits kind of fit

 

[DARKSIDER]

People are liking your post DS
Here's the filter info I forgot you asked for...
https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijua...umps-the-latest-thing?p=18094589#post18094589

So let me get this right. You made up your tank at 12/12 day, and were topping it up with both feed and calmag. Now at week 5, or some time before, you stopped giving more feed, and just top up with water and calmag? So, pulling the info I want from that, you stopped giving actual feed at some point during the first 5 weeks, and don't expect to add any more?

Blimey.


Moose, you find they stop drinking so much during the final push?
I have noticed such, but usually along with the runoff getting darker. Promoted by my lowering EC a lot. I think root collapse. I have not got that figured out yet. It does seem that really light feeding leads to what's best described as rot though. Maybe it's actually microlife though, better able to live in the much reduced salt conditions. I don't want to pass judgement, as the plants seem fine and the roots don't mush. It's just more colour. Lots more colour. Lower EC within the root will mean less water pulled in, so the bits kind of fit

Thanks for the filter info my friend appreciated lots, As for the feeding now at 5th week actually four more days then at week six to be precise the feeding continues in a way as this is automated so from 4 days time they will actually eat what is in the res as i will not be adding calmag or food as it is time to back off the remaining food which is in the res allready all i do is add water and more or less weaken whatever food remains in res but still they have a little similar to us having a snack if you get what i mean but yes thats how i do it, As for the like posts its appreciated always. Thanks members

 

[moose eater]

People are liking your post DS
Here's the filter info I forgot you asked for...
https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijua...umps-the-latest-thing?p=18094589#post18094589

So let me get this right. You made up your tank at 12/12 day, and were topping it up with both feed and calmag. Now at week 5, or some time before, you stopped giving more feed, and just top up with water and calmag? So, pulling the info I want from that, you stopped giving actual feed at some point during the first 5 weeks, and don't expect to add any more?

Blimey.


Moose, you find they stop drinking so much during the final push?
I have noticed such, but usually along with the runoff getting darker. Promoted by my lowering EC a lot. I think root collapse. I have not got that figured out yet. It does seem that really light feeding leads to what's best described as rot though. Maybe it's actually microlife though, better able to live in the much reduced salt conditions. I don't want to pass judgement, as the plants seem fine and the roots don't mush. It's just more colour. Lots more colour. Lower EC within the root will mean less water pulled in, so the bits kind of fit

I stop feeding 1.5 to 2 weeks before chopping them, and at the very end of that, as the majority of macro-nutrients are waning, then there might be a SLIGHT uptick in the H2O consumption, as they're searching for what little food they need before the 'end.'

Otherwise, the decrease in uptake of nutes/H2O in that time is, imo, linked to the growth cycle, and as they are approaching finality, they eat less.

Haven't noticed any significant differences in run-off tone/color near the end, though not sure I could absolutely rule it out.

I only recently acquired an EC meter (at either your or Creeper Park's insistence; can't recall who), and after decades of horticulture, I still haven't run any tests on run-off, etc. Been a rough winter. And it's not over yet.

 

[f-e]

I measure my runoff religiously. In volume terms, they will stop drinking so much if the EC gets high. As you say, they perhaps don't need to drink so much, as they get all the food needed in a smaller volume of water. I ha actually been thinking the high EC stopped them drinking as it was a bit toxic though. In osmosis, we speak of the higher salt concentration drawing the water. So maybe the relationship between salt in the plant an outside the plant is playing a good part in water movement, as my EC gets a bit too high and water use slows. Three ideas there... with little to divine between them.

As buds get bigger I see water use increase. I must remind readers I can't feckin grow, but the more bud I get, the more they evaporate off. I think the buds have less control over moisture loss than the green with it's stomota. Them little airs waving in the breeze must stay moist, and it's quite a dry position. I might transition at 5.5L per meter and flower at 6-6.5 but I can see 7.5L drank per meter on the warmest of days. They are certainly more weather prone in bloom than veg/transition.


Fuck me, the shit we know. Then the next year, the corrections we make. This will never end


Hopefully others will come forward, but it seems my ideas regarding 'pre load' are well founded. jackspratt61 recently guided me to a video to talk to me about Ca loading in the last weeks of veg and through transition. Darksider's continued efforts to get Ca in through bloom, are just what industry professionals are looking at.

 

[jackspratt61]

EC and plants drinking are strain related also..not just environment or growth stage. Each strain has a particular ec it wants. Even siblings can have large differences. The earthbox/perlite setup allows monitoring of ph/ec without media influence. Once rooted well into the container within 12 hours or so the plant will modify the ph/ec. It will quite literally show where it wants to be given the particular feed. Try a small SIP project to test your feed on strains. I've been quite surprised by how much I've learned from this technique.

 

[f-e]

For some time I have puzzled over outdoors. Here we have some trials where we see some nice pics of field grow cannabis flowers, using different feed levels. In short, 100ppm N and 50ppm P were about ideal. Very much like the bottled feeds we buy. Only, the field gets fed once. Before planting. https://www.ncat.edu/caes/agricultu...mp-program/hemp-conference/files/mcginnis.pdf
We probably have different ideas about what nice pics are. However, that doesn't move us away from the idea they feed once, and I feed 3 times a day at similar strength. Like I'm constantly changing my food, while outdoors the same feed ratio's are simply depleted. They might apply something like K later, or even the N in stages if the ground won't hold it. The general idea is just once though.

 

[The_Moz4rt]

I'm a first time grower so you'll probably find my answer not useful, but I'm noticing your exact same thing. My EC was 1.65 and was dropping daily by 0.1 till preflowering stage so I even reached 1.85 with little symptoms of excess of N. By now, two weeks into flowering, she drinks 2 liters of water daily and EC rises. So yes, my plant is eating less now. 1.6 mS/cm seems to be more than enough at the moment.
I have to say I switched from Atami nutes line to CANNA aqua flores, as Atami only has organic boosters that I can't use (had problems with roots)

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Transpiration, when environment stays steady, is a great indication of flowering stage.

DS, you grow similar to my hydro methods.

Mix tank day 1 of 12/12
Top off with plain r/o water daily (same level every day)
Watch how much is needed to refill
When pH hits 6.0, re-nute back to starting ec

Water usage increases to maximum around week 4-5 then drops off. This is the point you pay attention to for each strain. Quit feeding a week before this point to prevent over overfeeding.

My goal is to keep transpiration rates just below maximum until a few days before harvest. This means a lower and lower ec due to reduced nutrient needs by the plant.

Have you noticed this transition happens at about the same time physical flower bulking has ended? The plants are switching to oil production as the main goal and nute needs are much lower for this.

Good eye!

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

ANY time cannabis is overfed it binds excess to cell walls where it will never flush or fade out.

Make your errors underfeeding.

 

[The_Moz4rt]

Transpiration, when environment stays steady, is a great indication of flowering stage.

DS, you grow similar to my hydro methods.

Mix tank day 1 of 12/12
Top off with plain r/o water daily (same level every day)
Watch how much is needed to refill
When pH hits 6.0, re-nute back to starting ec

Water usage increases to maximum around week 4-5 then drops off. This is the point you pay attention to for each strain. Quit feeding a week before this point to prevent over overfeeding.

My goal is to keep transpiration rates just below maximum until a few days before harvest. This means a lower and lower ec due to reduced nutrient needs by the plant.

Have you noticed this transition happens at about the same time physical flower bulking has ended? The plants are switching to oil production as the main goal and nute needs are much lower for this.

Good eye!

As far as I know transpiration is environment dependant, hence you want to see your plant transpiring during the whole growth (leaves straight and pointing upwards)..
EC doesn't add up. Refilling with plain/RO water will simply mess with your nutrients balance. If you want to lower the EC, you should add RO water with same level of Ca/Mg which should be your starting point. IMO

 

[f-e]

I'm a first time grower so you'll probably find my answer not useful, but I'm noticing your exact same thing. My EC was 1.65 and was dropping daily by 0.1 till preflowering stage so I even reached 1.85 with little symptoms of excess of N. By now, two weeks into flowering, she drinks 2 liters of water daily and EC rises. So yes, my plant is eating less now. 1.6 mS/cm seems to be more than enough at the moment.
I have to say I switched from Atami nutes line to CANNA aqua flores, as Atami only has organic boosters that I can't use (had problems with roots)

That's useful info pal. Thank you for sharing. Sometimes it's the newcomers that record every detail, and the old hands that can't be bothered anymore


Thanks for the input Doug. I see the reduction later on after bulking, but I'm looking at day 23 after 12/12 in my case. When the stretch is over. Almost as if the amount of stretching is the guide to how much I should feed. I'm using 7-8 weeks plants, so it is indeed linked to rising water use.

I was looking at that grow diaries forum, for people using the feed I have switched to this run. I noted many stopped calmag at the end of grow. I looked at maybe 4 diaries, and they all did. It stands to reason that Ca uptake is much easier with all them white hairs in the breeze. I wonder if other issues I have at this very time, are asking me to reduce Ca from the levels needed before bloom aided uptake. I did sort of trial that, as part of other reductions though. Something in that mix of changes was helpful. I wonder..

 

[f-e]

Oh.. I got a handle on the canna terra in veg. Should be 5ml and pretty much is. After adding 90ppm more Ca and 15ppm more Mg, that is. Not calmag though, as the N in calmag means using less feed which isn't as good a result. I tried half feed on one, full on other, 1.5X on another. However it was the Ca they really wanted. I may still need more, but they are not red and woody now, like you would normally associate with P or Mg. Soft and green was found with a plant getting excess Ca along with the 5ml recommendation from the terra feed bottle. Extra Mg caused them to bush.

 

[exploziv]

I love the knowledge being shared here! Thank you! Very interested in this as well..

 

[The_Moz4rt]

As far as I know transpiration is environment dependant, hence you want to see your plant transpiring during the whole growth (leaves straight and pointing upwards)..
EC doesn't add up. Refilling with plain/RO water will simply mess with your nutrients balance. If you want to lower the EC, you should add RO water with same level of Ca/Mg which should be your starting point. IMO

Sorry, I didn't specify in Hydroponics.

 

[f-e]

I wonder what lowering the EC does. I know from dozens of tests, that lowering the ec fed to coco, raises the runoff ec for a day or two. Literally, feed less and the runoff ec goes up. I saw someone try to explain this, but I'm not sure they got it quite right. The simple answers looks like salts in the plant come out into the water, as it's lower EC makes it a solvent. However, the EC actually goes higher. There is another answer, where the lack of salts in the substrate holding the water, means the salts in the plant can pull water in. Salts being like a water magnet. Still, the runoff gets higher. The effect can't be acting on all salts equally. I suspect calcium comes back out easily, and registers highly on our meters. It's method of passing through the roots being more mechanical than most other things. So we get a salt solution that's perhaps not a higher ppm than in the roots, but measures higher as that specific salt it very conductive. I know at least one user here has a grip on why different salts are seen differently, and can tell us why. It didn't piece together with my knowledge though, so to my brain, it's a lost fragment I can't reach. Number of H's perhaps. I can't go there.

We do need to keep
Oh shit I'm late for work