Flowering under "Daylight" fluoros

[magiccannabus]

Does anyone here have any experience flowering under "Daylight" spectrum fluorescent tubes or CFLs? I'm talking 5000-6500K CCT. I'm having a lot of delays, my strains are taking ages, and I'm trying to narrow it down. Have any of you experienced delays? I want to try red tubes in place of some of the blue ones(I have 4 red tubes out of 16 total), but I am broke and can't get them. I wonder if these things will ever finish...... I think I'm on day 90 as of today. None of them should be taking that long.

 

[SativaDreams]

From my reading (i'll soon be starting a cfl grow), the 2700k spectrum is primarily needed in flowering and the daylight bulbs don't offer much if any of it. It may have to do with the chemical processes that the plant does during flowering which are impeded by your daylight bulbs.

the 2700k bulbs are also called "soft white"

hope it helped, try to do some research on it and post up if you find anything.. i'm also interested


Good growing

 

[purpledomgoddes]

use daylight floros next to uvb tubes over head. 1k's vertical. have not experienced any flowering delay w/ these.

a cheap red colored party light (26w) may assist in triggering and sustaining the fruiting signal; if that is the issue.

another way to stimulate flowering is by foliar spraying w/ a high p-k formula. kool bloom type of fert, foliar sprayed, will signal time to ripen up.

use both these methods. they may be helpful.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Does anyone here have any experience flowering under "Daylight" spectrum fluorescent tubes or CFLs? I'm talking 5000-6500K CCT. I'm having a lot of delays, my strains are taking ages, and I'm trying to narrow it down. Have any of you experienced delays? I want to try red tubes in place of some of the blue ones(I have 4 red tubes out of 16 total), but I am broke and can't get them. I wonder if these things will ever finish...... I think I'm on day 90 as of today. None of them should be taking that long.

I've read a lot of CFL grows and most with your spectrum don't seem to take any longer, just ends up with more compact buds and shorter plants. The spectrum range on the tubes you're running is still around 91CRI so, even though your 'spike' is in the 5000-6500k range, they still put out the rest of the spectrum of light. (Fluoros are very 'rich' light sources) So, your plants are definitely getting the red range they need to flower properly.

What strain(s) are you running? And you 'Think' you're on day 90??

 

[magiccannabus]

haha I was pretty tired when I posted. Yes, I am on day 90 of 12/12. I had a light leak for a long time and I think that's the ultimate cause of delay. I'm just trying to eliminate whatever else may be causing me delays. I think I'm gonna hang a bare 250W HPS down the middle of my cab for a week or two and see how it performs.

 

[LJB]

Kelvin ratings only tell us how a bulb will look to the human eye. The Kelvin color temperature of the light source is the color of light emitted by a "black body" when heated to a certain temperature measured in Kelvins (K). That really doesn't have anything to do with growing plants.

What lamp customers need from the manufacturers is the spectral distribution curve. Unfortunately this information is usually hard to come by for FLOs and CFL. It can probably be had by contacting the company directly. Some are floating around in the public domain.

Here is the SPD for the Nvision 5500k "Daylight" 9w CFL. It is one of the brands that Home Depot sells a lot of.

The absorption spectrum:

So how does the nvision "daylight" rate?

That spike at around 615 doesn't appear very helpful. The spike at 540 is for the subjective benefit of the human eye.
This "daylight" bulb is better suited for veg growth with that spike and hump between 400-500.

This link contains spectral graphs for a few FLO and CF lamps:

http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/spectra7.htm

*****

You should know that the proportion of red light to the amount of far red light influences elongation of stems.

Carotenoids are also important during the flowering stage.

Carotenoids as Flavor & Fragrance Precursors - A Review by John C. Leffingwell. Ph.D.

For us, the most important source for carotenoids are plants, where often the brilliant colors of the carotenoids are masked by the green chlorophyllic pigments (i.e. in green vegetables and leaves). In a number of cases, as plants mature, the chlorophyll content decreases leaving the carotenoids responsible for the beautiful colors of most fruits (pineapple, oranges, lemons, grapefruit, strawberry, tomatoes, paprika, rose hips) and many flowers (Eschscholtzia, Narcissus).

[..]

As plants mature, or die, the chlorophyllic pigments rapidly decrease and virtually disappear (one of the normal catabolic changes during plant senescence). [See graphical representation for chlorophyll and carotenoids on senescense ]

The yellow - orange carotenoid pigments of plants also decrease during the senescence or the death phase of plants, but do not always decrease to the point of near extinction as do the chlorophyllic pigments. Thus for plant parts such as the stigma of saffron an intense yellow color (due to carotenoids) remains...and in the green citrus "orange", the fruit turns yellow-orange with maturity.

[..]

The primary odor constituents derived from carotenoids are C13 - C11 - C10 - and C9 derivatives formed via enzymatic oxidation and photo-oxidation of the various carotenoids found in plants, flowers and fruits. While other aroma constituents such as esters, terpenes, pyrazines, etc. are usually also present, these C9 to C13 compounds often are essential to the odor profile. Above you will see a common oxidative fragmentation pattern (shown for beta-Carotene).

http://www.leffingwell.com/caroten.htm

What we don't know for cannabis is the optimum amounts of blue and red during flowering. But plenty of studies have been conducted in labs by researchers and scientists on other plants not deemed evil by the government that we can use as basic guidelines. Keep in mind that plants use blue and red at vastly different rates of efficiency.

possible educational topics for growers:

- plant blue light receptors
- process of photosynthesis
- the electromagnetic spectrum
- photoperiodism and phytochrome

A good starting point:

The Online Biology Book is hosted by Estrella Mountain Community College, in sunny Avondale, Arizona.

The Nature of Light:

http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookPS.html#Light

this article was published with orchid growers in mind but has some nice background information couched in everyman terms:

http://www.aos.org/AM/Template.cfm?...ONTENTID=5736&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm

 

[sero!]

I´ve tried once... flowered some clones SOG style under 4 x 40 watts daylight fluorescent tubes and no delay at all, only airy buds... then I switch them for a 150 watt hps and the results were better, so i guess the spectrum (+more lumens from the hid) helps to get best quality and yield.

 

[HOODOOBLUESMAN]

dude,
if you can--
put some red leds on grow area-
the red--165/168 5mm leds in par 38 size---

thats regular screw in socket with the size of a small flood light....

if kept 20 inches away from canopy--
will cover[supplement your fluoros] a 1 foot square area....

zoom zoom zoom results

i m o-
6500 k for veg--[16on-8 off]
6500 k plus red led for 12/12

 

[SativaDreams]

Kelvin ratings only tell us how a bulb will look to the human eye. The Kelvin color temperature of the light source is the color of light emitted by a "black body" when heated to a certain temperature measured in Kelvins (K).

As defined by the cameraguild, "Measuring color temperature in Kelvin (once degrees Kelvin) is a system of designating a light source's spectral distribution." Although the Kelvin temperature rating is based on a theoretical scale of a perfect black body radiating, they note it is not simulated so realistically by CFL's designated a Kelvin rating. "With these light sources, one need only measure the energy at two places in the spectrum - red and blue - to determine the Kelvin. However, when the light source has an "interrupted" spectrum - as do all fluorescent and discharge lamps - it is not correct to describe that light source as having a Kelvin temperature."
In summation the Kelvin rating is not very accurate, however CFL's do not put out "the entire spectrum" any differently or much better than other bulbs like HIDs.

instead "published charts can be misleading because it is acceptable to shorten the high peaks of energy and widen the bar to represent the total energy (it saves paper). In reality, these bars represent high peaks of energy at certain points in the spectrum, and the smoothed out continuous line is artistic license with areas of little or no energy. The Kelvin scale should not be used to describe light sources with an "interrupted spectrum." Sadly, the term is often misused, and by those who should know better: the very lamp manufacturers being depended on for this important information."

what this means is that the HID emission chart is deptive in nature, as the companies show only the spikes of its insensity, whereas flourescent emission charts most commonly smooth the curve visually.
It stands that different kelvin ratings may not always emit the same spectrum (even the same kelvin rating of different bulbs differ somewhat in their spectrum.)




The absorption spectrum:

So how does the nvision "daylight" rate?



What lamp customers need from the manufacturers is the spectral distribution curve. Unfortunately this information is usually hard to come by for FLOs and CFL. It can probably be had by contacting the company directly. Some are floating around in the public domain.

I agree. I also agree that 2700k and 5500/6500k may not be entirely accurate measurements of plants spectral emissions, but I would put my money that 6500k rated bulbs from different companies would put more blue spectrum than from the same companies from what i've seen in CFL spectral emission charts
That really doesn't have anything to do with growing plants.

my point is that it IS relative to growing plants. although it's not entirely accurate, it could be used as a rough indicator. in that I'm willing to bet most 6500k bulbs put out better low wavelength spectrum (ideal for vege) compared to any same companies 2700k rated bulbs (ideal for flowering).


more blue light (low wavelength emission) promotes absorption by chlorophyll that corresponds to vegetative growth(~453), more red spectrum promotes absoprtion by chlorophyll that corresponds to flowering (~662).. As your chart conveniently points out!


*****

Sorry if it came off as rough around the edges, you posted some good info in that link about spectral analysis.. we did some of that in a bio lab I was in with lettuce or cabbage.

so for me - 6500k in vege all the way! and 2700k for flowering all day!

 

[magiccannabus]

I know they have red in them. I actually know a lot about lighting, but I was wondering more in terms of the red/blue balance. My light is extremely blue, and I think it may have hurt me some. I just couldn't afford proper kit. I'll be trying a 250W HPS in there for the next week and we'll see how that compares. I'll probably turn off half the fluoros because my circuit would blow otherwise.

 

[Jnugg]

Plants grown to full maturity under fluoros will almost always take longer to finish.T5's might give better results but it has been ages since this particular grower has used fluoros...once I saw the light from a 400w HID when I was 16 I never looked back!I am now 28 just FYI.

I'd step up to a 150w or 250w MH or HPS and that's if you can't step up to a 400w or more HID.You can easily fit a 150-250w HID in a cooltube in a small cab (2' x 2' x 4 or 6 feet tall) and get some nice buds.The best I have done so far was 8oz under a 400w HPS in C-13 (2' x 2.5' x 6') with a 4" 172cfm inline exhuast fan....same set up as in my grow diaries.You should be able to get atleast 2oz. from a 150w HID and up to 4oz under a 250w HID.

 

[LJB]

some of my comments on this thread are not correct.

green not entirely unuseful, quite the opposite in fact.

BGR with a higher % of green and red will produce better quality flowers and better yield as long as there is enough blue...

 

[magiccannabus]

I'm really happy with the fluoro tubes in a lot of ways, so I am definitely not going to ditch them. Instead my new cabinet is going to be bigger, have more plants, the same number of shop lights, and a 250W HPS hanging overhead. The new cabinet is gonna be sweet in other words lol. I mean, I have the blue end of the light covered, I have side lights, and yet my effort to surround the plant with light definitely neglected the tops. Not in my next cabinet! Moving to space for 6 2.5 gallon pots, but a 5 gallon bucket could fit in there if I need to. It would probably just cost me space for 1 plant to use 5 gallon pots, but the 2.5 gallon pots are a lot bigger than my current ones. They'll be placed 2 pots deep, and 3 pots wide. The fluoros will be up on a shelf so they sit a bit higher and don't shine on the sides of the pots, keeping the root zone darker. Plus the pots are black plastic and that should help too. I was just working on the construction and whatnot right before I came in here to post this. I'm hoping it's working within a week, but maybe that's too ambitious.

 

[HOODOOBLUESMAN]

yo magic can
"". The fluoros will be up on a shelf so they sit a bit higher and don't shine on the sides of the pots, keeping the root zone darker. Plus the pots are black plastic and that should help too. I was just working on the construction and whatnot right before I came in here to post this. I'm hoping it's working within a week, but maybe that's too ambitious.{""

how does your root zone get affected???
__________________

 

[magiccannabus]

Well when I was on vacation I put a dish of water under each plant. I expected all of them to drink all that I gave them, but two of them didn't, and one barely drank anything. The one that barely drank got bad bacteria that was fed by the light and intense heat(heat wave happened while I was on vacation). The plant died completely, the other was stunted somewhat. So it showed me for sure that light down at the base of the pots has no advantage. Raising them will reduce the chance of something like that ever happening again. Should also mean I can do more with my ventilation system than I have in the past, and with no light leaking out the bottom, or in the bottom. Besides all that, it's just wasting light to shine them on the side of the pots. Also this will give me more overhead room