Flowering deficiency? What do you think IC mag

[BobChronic6505]

So i have 1 bodhi lemon thai indy and 2 bodhi sun ra (sfv x wookie). All 3 plants are in an organic soil mix using the coots mix from buildasoil. The 2 sun ra are in 1 gallon plastic pots, the lemon thai is in 3 gallon grow bag. 600w hps, 3x3 tent. 77f humidity has been high 30s. I know the humidity is not ideal, but it's all I have to work with right now. I was watering every 3 to 4 days using bubbled tap water. I was ph'ing my water from 6.0 to 6.3.

Regardless of the shit humidity, I have been getting these same symptoms the last few grows, starting at week 2 of flower. Everything is perfect and lush and green until week 2 and its pissing me off. At this rate all my leaves will be gone in two weeks, and we cant let that happen.

So as of a cpl days ago I been feeding with general hydro bottle nutes only because we got to get to the finish line with some bud to make all this worth it. I can ride this out and get to harvest, but the main purpose of this post is to try and identify the cause of this and fix the problems organically.

I love u icmag thanks in advance

 

[BobChronic6505]

 

[BobChronic6505]

I also want to add I have been using some epsom salt as I first thought this was a magnesium deficiency. Its been a few days since that first epsom salt feeding and havent seen any positive results from it.

I've also considered a nitrogen deficiency, but I am weary feeding nitrogen in early mid flower

 

[f-e]

I think it looks like Mg to. Did you add much? 30ppm is a typical bump after seeing a deficiency. Every watering.

 

[BobChronic6505]

I think it looks like Mg to. Did you add much? 30ppm is a typical bump after seeing a deficiency. Every watering.

I didnt check the ppm but 1 tablespoon to 1 gallon water was the recommended dose and that's what I used. I've also top dressed some more coots nutrient mix, a little insect frass and kelp about a week and a half ago at the first signs of deficiency.

Edit: dolomite lime also

 

[f-e]

That does sound like quite a lot. I presume you ran it through to runoff, so they got a good dose of it.

They can respond to a foliar application well. Though any reversal is unlikely, have you seen no slowing of the spread?

 

[BobChronic6505]

f-e the spread is actually starting to increase. Also, i was under the impression that magnesium was a mobile nutrient and that I would see fairly quick results with it. And I did believe that my leaves would green back up. You dont think the leaves will recover even if the correct deficiency/issue is identified?

 

[goingrey]

f-e the spread is actually starting to increase. Also, i was under the impression that magnesium was a mobile nutrient and that I would see fairly quick results with it. And I did believe that my leaves would green back up. You dont think the leaves will recover even if the correct deficiency/issue is identified?

The yellow leaves won't go back to green. But if the yellow is spreading the deficiency is obviously not fixed.

I would reconsider your weariness of feeding nitrogen early-mid flowering. They still need some during that phase, especially during the early flowering stretch.

 

[Creeperpark]

You and your plant are lost as far as nutrients go. The problem with adding so many different things to fix it, you can make it worse. Always start with complete organic soil and use pure water and water without discharge. When the plant starts to show a nutrient problem, just up -pott into the next larger size pot using the same soil. Good organic soil doesn't need to be fed if it's amended correctly. Dixie cup, to 1gallon, to 3 gallons, and 5-gallon container for long-season large plants.

 

[GoatCheese]

I didnt check the ppm but 1 tablespoon to 1 gallon water was the recommended dose and that's what I used. I've also top dressed some more coots nutrient mix, a little insect frass and kelp about a week and a half ago at the first signs of deficiency.

Edit: dolomite lime also

Usually i’ve seen the recommendation of 1 TEASPOON (5ml) of epsom per gallon not a tablespoon which is 15ml
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Plant in a 1 gallon pot getting watered every 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] day under a 600 watter hps i wouldn’t be surprised if the yellowing was caused by under watering

You should learn to water the plants according to their needs, not to think about it in days; as in “every other day” or “every 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] day”. Some plants don’t like over watering like Haze genetics, some don’t like getting too dry like UK Cheese genetics. So you have to water each plant according to their needs.

..one trick is to learn to estimate the moisture content of the soil by lifting the pot up abit and feel how much it weighs in your hands. So next time your soil is quite dry lift the container/ or one side of it up abit – then water it till you see some run off and lift it up again to get an idea how much it weighs when the soil is dry vs. moist.

 

[goingrey]

Usually i’ve seen the recommendation of 1 TEASPOON (5ml) of epsom per gallon not a tablespoon which is 15ml
-

-
Plant in a 1 gallon pot getting watered every 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] day under a 600 watter hps i wouldn’t be surprised if the yellowing was caused by under watering

You should learn to water the plants according to their needs, not to think about it in days; as in “every other day” or “every 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] day”. Some plants don’t like over watering like Haze genetics, some don’t like getting too dry like UK Cheese genetics. So you have to water each plant according to their needs.

..one trick is to learn to estimate the moisture content of the soil by lifting the pot up abit and feel how much it weighs in your hands. So next time your soil is quite dry lift the container/ or one side of it up abit – then water it till you see some run off and lift it up again to get an idea how much it weighs when the soil is dry vs. moist.

That's surely a more sanitary way to do it. But to get a real feel for the earth.. stick a finger in it.

 

[f-e]

Actively growing parts can still regain some green colour. Giving an overall darkening of the plant, when viewed from afar.

Mg is Mobile. Losses first appear in the lower leaves. Between the veins. As these leaves get quite drained, the leaves higher up the plant start to get drained to. In time, the bottom leaves can look like N deficiency as the last of the colour goes from them. By this time, the upper leaves are likely to be getting drained also. Your pics look very much like this.

Putting Mg aside, There are N signs now I look deeper. Some classic Mg that caught my eye instantly, but a lot could be N. Nitrogen is still in demand, as buds are greenery. N is one of the largest contributors to plant weight. You could easily be running out. Watering could effect both. It might also explain why there are water retention efforts ongoing. I don't see classic K deficiency but it also fits with that margin roll, stripes, lighter edges that may also say calcium. More Mg would reduce K and Ca availability, but I'm leaning towards N and watering frequency.

I knew when I first commented that I wouldn't be much help beyond the Mg guess. Organic and all these amendments leave me unsure what is going on. At times like these, a proper manufacturer balanced feed is a good crutch. I'm not sure what GH product you have, but a couple of pots worth through each will generally wash out the old, and in with the new.
Is there RO in use? perhaps you need some calmag to recharge the soil a bit, offering some extra Mg and N together with some generally useful Ca

 

[BobChronic6505]

You and your plant are lost as far as nutrients go. The problem with adding so many different things to fix it, you can make it worse.

I know man I almost didnt want to post this because I've put so much different shit on it. I had to try to get in front of the deficiency before it ran away on me.

I have also been experimenting with up potting, which is why that lemon thai is in a 3 gallon. Funny enough tho, the same deficiency came on at the same time in flower as my 1 gallon pots, which kinda leads me to believe pot size isnt really the problem here?

 

[BobChronic6505]

GoatCheese I agree with you, but i want to speak on my watering practices a bit. The reason why I water in this fashion is because when my soil gets dry, it becomes hydrophic as fucking hell. It's a problem I've had since moving to soil. To he honest, i think some of plants could probably go weeks without water, but the soil and compost would turn into this hard brick and it would never hold water again. Even now, water likes to puddle up on the top and then just run off the sides, or just run straight out the pot.

So I will listen to your advice and recommendation and see if I can find a balance between keeping the soil from going hydrophobic and keeping my plants healthy.

 

[BobChronic6505]

The yellow leaves won't go back to green. But if the yellow is spreading the deficiency is obviously not fixed.

fuck

I would reconsider your weariness of feeding nitrogen early-mid flowering. They still need some during that phase, especially during the early flowering stretch.

It's the only thing I havent added in yet so it's probably worth a try.

 

[BobChronic6505]

Actively growing parts can still regain some green colour. Giving an overall darkening of the plant, when viewed from afar.

Mg is Mobile. Losses first appear in the lower leaves. Between the veins. As these leaves get quite drained, the leaves higher up the plant start to get drained to. In time, the bottom leaves can look like N deficiency as the last of the colour goes from them. By this time, the upper leaves are likely to be getting drained also. Your pics look very much like this.

Putting Mg aside, There are N signs now I look deeper. Some classic Mg that caught my eye instantly, but a lot could be N. Nitrogen is still in demand, as buds are greenery. N is one of the largest contributors to plant weight. You could easily be running out. Watering could effect both. It might also explain why there are water retention efforts ongoing. I don't see classic K deficiency but it also fits with that margin roll, stripes, lighter edges that may also say calcium. More Mg would reduce K and Ca availability, but I'm leaning towards N and watering frequency.

I knew when I first commented that I wouldn't be much help beyond the Mg guess. Organic and all these amendments leave me unsure what is going on. At times like these, a proper manufacturer balanced feed is a good crutch. I'm not sure what GH product you have, but a couple of pots worth through each will generally wash out the old, and in with the new.
Is there RO in use? perhaps you need some calmag to recharge the soil a bit, offering some extra Mg and N together with some generally useful Ca

FE I usually get some K deficiency when humidity gets super low like it is this time of year. Ive read it is a VPD thing. So I think it's safe to say there is a little K deficiency compounded with whatever else is going on. It's interesting u say that Mg can block uptake of K and Ca, especially since I havent seen any improvement since I fed with Mg, if anything, maybe even worsening of symptoms. It's something I need to do some more reading on.

 

[BobChronic6505]

I want to share some progression pics. This is from January 3rd.

And this is from January 13:

 

[Creeperpark]

I know man I almost didnt want to post this because I've put so much different shit on it. I had to try to get in front of the deficiency before it ran away on me.

I have also been experimenting with up potting, which is why that lemon thai is in a 3 gallon. Funny enough tho, the same deficiency came on at the same time in flower as my 1 gallon pots, which kinda leads me to believe pot size isnt really the problem here?

Don't allow discharge and your nutrients will last longer. Size matters friend when it comes to plant size and end weight of the plant. The main difference is water management between the two. Watering a 1 gallon every day or every other day and 5 gallon every 3 to 7 days depending on the substrate makes a big difference. Larger organic mixes can feed and supply way more nutrients than is needed for a growing cycle while 1-gallon containers can't. Here's photo of organic water only grow.

 

[BobChronic6505]

Creeperpark what do you recommend PH'ing your water to? Some people suggest that because peat is technically soilless, you should ph for that value, but others believe once you add compost and amendments to it that it actually becomes soil soil, and therefore in a different ph range so to speak. What do u think?

 

[PoweredByLove]

looks like a nitrogen deficiency on top of a mag def. i see you started giving 1tb/gal epsom salt. thats a bit much i would start at 1 tsp and work up. you ph is also kept low which makes nitrogen uptake a problem depending on medium.
if you havent already try raising the ph up to 6.5 or let it drift up from 6.0 naturally.