Flip Box Vs 12 more Ballasts

[globel]

I am in the middle of planing this grow and this is my first time with the opportunity to run a flip flop box. I am planing on running 2 rooms with 10 - 12 hoods in each. And I was at my local hydro store and I was trying to price out a flip box and the only ones we found were 1,500$ with only 8 outlets !! I get 10 1000 watters for 1,250. So I am asking what is the big advantage to using one of these? I can see how wiring another 12,000 watts can be trying but is that it? And if anyone has some links to pre build flip box's it would be nice.

 

[fatcat666]

ripoff!!!!!

http://www.progressive-growth.com/proddetail.php?prod=43015


$300


the advantage is that you run your ballasts 24/7 (less wear?), and you have no power spikes when switching back and forth. i believe a constant draw looks less suspicious than 12/12 spikes

 

[globel]

i would need 2 of the 500$ ones but good find. Thank you.

 

[vancityj]

The big advantage to a 'flip-flop' is that you could theoretically maximize your watt-usage by way of running <80% of your allocated electrical load capacity. If you have a 100-amp main, you can only run about 10 (50 amps @ 240V), 1KW lights as well as an AC (3 Ton; 21 amps @ 240V) and auxillary fans (120V) before you're maxed out. A flip allows you to run twice as many lights on the same 100-amps, via running two, 12-hour, 10-light (20 total) rooms; a flip ensures that there are no timer conflictions resulting in overlapping light cycles, which would trip the breaker. Try to incorporate a contactor-relay to briefly shut down (1-min is good; set flip to activate during that time) ballast power before the actual 'flip' occurs, as this will spare your flip-relays from arcing.

 

[Eminem]

Obviously you can flip flop w/o a box.

I did some research and it was cheaper and more straight forward to buy the extra ballasts, then to buy a pre built box. I probably could have built my own box, but I didnt have the time.


I use 1 timer, and 4 contactors for each room. 6 600's on each contactor @ 240V. So I have 2 timers in total for flowering. They are set with a 2-3 minute gap, so the lights are never on at the same time.


Now if you want to start playing with the lights, it may be worth it. I know nowirenuts.ca can build some nice flips with PLC's. For example, if you want to run 10 lights in one room, but only run 5 every two hours, it would be easier with the PLC.

 

[vancityj]

Hey Em, you may want to look into the Intermatic ET1725C (7-Day Electronic Time Switch - NEMA 1 Indoor Steel Case - 2 Circuit - 2xSPST or DPST - 30 Amps - 120/208/240/277 Volt) timer, as it has two seperate circuits run from the same digital clock timer; there would be a slimmer chance of cycle overlap. It's $124 at 1000bulbs.com.

 

[somebody041]

The big advantage to a 'flip-flop' is that you could theoretically maximize your watt-usage by way of running <80% of your allocated electrical load capacity. If you have a 100-amp main, you can only run about 10 (50 amps @ 240V), 1KW lights as well as an AC (3 Ton; 21 amps @ 240V) and auxillary fans (120V) before you're maxed out. A flip allows you to run twice as many lights on the same 100-amps, via running two, 12-hour, 10-light (20 total) rooms; a flip ensures that there are no timer conflictions resulting in overlapping light cycles, which would trip the breaker. Try to incorporate a contactor-relay to briefly shut down (1-min is good; set flip to activate during that time) ballast power before the actual 'flip' occurs, as this will spare your flip-relays from arcing.

hey vancityj, would you mind elaborating on the contractor relay a bit? i've never heard of that and was unaware that a regular 2 room flip system risks arcing.

thanks

 

[fatcat666]

hey vancityj, would you mind elaborating on the contractor relay a bit? i've never heard of that and was unaware that a regular 2 room flip system risks arcing.

thanks

can someone in this thread please clarify to me what an electrical arc is, the dangers of one, and how to avoid it?

should have gone to trades school


thanks

 

[vancityj]

A contactor (larger amperage relay) is ultimately used to temporarily cut, then restore power to the ballast/s before and after the physical flipping of the lamp relays. This would prevent most potential issues pertaining to burned lamp relays and much-shortened relay lifespan; flipping them hot isn't ideal. Also, if you lengthen the off time for a few minutes, it will give cap/starter enough rest time to ignite the cold lamps with no problems (especially needed with digital ballasts, apparently) once you flip. Check out the different ICMag threads on flips and contactors.

KungPOW!!! makes a FLIP/FLOP
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=35561

Kung POW!!! shows the Contactor Board
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=35810

Application of Nano PLC In A Growroom
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99252

 

[HellaFella420]

If your really trying to be "cool" and go this big, then the $$ saving approach of a flip-flop is just retarded..... u gotta spend big to be big....

Something goes wrong with your box? NOTHING WORKS till you fix it, replace it, etc...

One ballast fails, nothing is different but that one little square of light.... then go buy a new one....


No offence but the majority of ppl I see on here talking about flip's are high-school kids dreaming crazy dreams....

 

[Olyver]

I am in the middle of planing this grow and this is my first time with the opportunity to run a flip flop box. I am planing on running 2 rooms with 10 - 12 hoods in each. And I was at my local hydro store and I was trying to price out a flip box and the only ones we found were 1,500$ with only 8 outlets !! I get 10 1000 watters for 1,250. So I am asking what is the big advantage to using one of these? I can see how wiring another 12,000 watts can be trying but is that it? And if anyone has some links to pre build flip box's it would be nice.

A 8 ballast flip for $1500, I'd luv to see that flip. I build custom flips and an 8 ballast flip costs less than a $1000, depends on what style of lampcords and receptacles. I'll build ya a flip to match your needs, heck I'll even powdercoat it any color you want, at no charge. If you have the additional room and circulation, I would add another 12 ballasts. Then just flip the power between the ballasts. You would a loadcenter to power only 12 ballasts at a time. Another advantage to the flip, is vegetative cycle in the two rooms. Not only can you do 12/12, but 18/6, 20/4, or 24 hours a day. If you do a 18/6 cycle, 12 lights are on for 6 hours in each room, then the other 12 hours, they flip/zig-zag between half the lights in each room. They're are + & - to flips. All depends on your location, power available, digital or CC ballasts, etc. If you do decided to get another 12 ballasts, then get a timerboard with delay on and off for the ballasts. You can delay one, two, three, or four ballasts at time to power on and off. Only one I know who makes timerboards like that is me. Attached is a pic of a 12 ballast timerboad with delay, PLC, and 5 x 25A two pole relays, switching 240V ballasts. First 4 ballasts turn on, then 2 minutes later, 2 more ballasts, etc, until all 12 are on.

Best Regards

Olyver

 

[johnnyla]

i'm confused about flipping and running lights in a zig zag and only running lights in half the room.

is this necessary if power source is not an issue i.e. you have a shitload of amperage?

just wondering. i am interested in cutting down power consuption without compromising yield if that's possible.