Fermented plant extracts

[Swayze]

Is there a difference in storage time between Bionutrients and FPE's?

What I'm not sure about is what/if any role does the molasses play in the diluted 1:20 form, and if the addition of molasses causes the Bionutrient to have a shorter shelf life over the FPE.

Thanks.

 

[Oregonism]

Is there a difference in storage time between Bionutrients and FPE's?

Short Eyeball Answer:
I have a few of my intial FPE's that are pushing over 1 year. They were initially made blackstrap. After getting some advice from a prominent figure on here, I did away with it completely. Mainly because the process of micro-life extracting the needed nutrients from blackstrap isn't proven to be any easier than soaking plant material in the same menstrum.

I don't notice a difference. i.e. those FPE's made w/out blackstrap, seem to be just as potent and percolate along the same time scale, maybe even faster, but that could be the process being streamlined as well.


What I'm not sure about is what/if any role does the molasses play in the diluted 1:20 form, and if the addition of molasses causes the Bionutrient to have a shorter shelf life over the FPE.

Thanks.

Short Answer: I have both, made in the same time frame and I stopped using blackstrap after getting advice from someone prominent on here.
Is the process of micro-life extracting nutrients, more effective, from blackstrap or plant material sugars?
I think they are under the same constraints and using blackstrap is not bad, just adding to what is there.

I am waiting [not patiently] for the nettles to pop up. They are close. When that happens I am making the annual batch of nettle brew and plan to add pectic enzyme, I am curious to see the results and then report my hypothesis.


LONG ANSWER:


One of my worries overall is level of alcohol that is produced. Lactate fermentation does produce alcohol, which then can be turned into acetic acid aka vinegar. Some micro-nutrients but very low pH and low kH.

If I were to seriously investigate, I would research: pyruvate decarboxylation and the Acetyl-CoA pathway of metabolism. That may be too much, but if you wan't to analyze the nitty gritty I would start with the before and after processes of metabolism involving fermentation and gauge which reaction produces a "result".

Probably not the answer you were looking for, but you may have to find it on thru your own research.

 

[Oregonism]

ff double post.

 

[c-ray]

I wonder what difference there would be between a ferment made with young nettles and nettles in their peak of flowering?

also how about the difference between a ferment made from a horsetail that has just popped out of the ground (sporangia) and a fully grown horsetail..

incidentally there is a tree called Casuarina that is very high Si and grows in the South Pacific, it is basically a tree version of the horsetail

 

[SeaMaiden]

Um... I can't remember if it's in this thread or another, but IIRC OrganicBuds discussed using the actual blooms of plants. I used that as a cue for an experiment with my expensive rhododendron, and made several teas using the spent blooms from my Camellia. That year was the best I've ever seen that rhodie bloom since I bought it.

Also, given how many people seem to be on this seed-sprout tea bandwagon and my own experience using malted barley extract over the past several years, I am given to believe that absolutely there is a difference and you'll be getting compounds specific not only to the area of growth, but the the timing of it as well.

 

[bajangreen]

i know the Casuarina tree it howls when the wind blows never done a FPE with it though.

 

[W89]

I think I read somewhere that plants just before flowering will be at there peak nutrient content. I will try find it up

 

[Oregonism]

incidentally there is a tree called Casuarina that is very high Si and grows in the South Pacific, it is basically a tree version of the horsetail

oxalates are another variety that are Si based. Oxalic acid is the main constituent which also has natural Acaricide activity. I have had great succes with an FPE spray on outdoor miteage. I just apply it to the soil, I don't spray directly on the plants.

Common examples are pig-weeds [lambs quarter, dock etc], mulleins etc. Wood sorel is another that is common in the Western Hemisphere. Plants that have a lemon tang taste are noted for being oxalates. [I still to this day stuff fresh caught trout with wood sorrel, it has a lemony taste]

 

[W89]

Oregonism when you say dock do you mean dock leaves the stuff that stops stinging nettle stings

 

[Oregonism]

Oregonism when you say dock do you mean dock leaves the stuff that stops stinging nettle stings

I don't know if dock stops nettle sting, but I am very curious to find out, I personally have used by Yarrow/achillea millefolium and Heal-All/Prunella vulgaris

Rumex spp. is specifically what I was mentioning.

Rumex crispus / Curly Dock aka Yellow dock
Rumex occidentalis / Western Dock
Rumex acetosella / Sheep Sorrel

HTH

 

[W89]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,,-80666,00.html

 

[Oregonism]

.........[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]and in Doc[k] leaves there is a form of alcohol, which is an alkaline substance, therefore the alkaline neutralises the acid. It's the same idea as using vinger (an acid) so help relieve stings from wasps/bees (can't remember which one!)............. [/FONT]

Very cool, I wonder if it has anything to do with oxalates? or if Dock is just a pimp.

Funny, considered a big weed over here on the Pacific. Escaped vegetable really. Good chit.

 

[SeaMaiden]

oxalates are another variety that are Si based. Oxalic acid is the main constituent which also has natural Acaricide activity. I have had great succes with an FPE spray on outdoor miteage. I just apply it to the soil, I don't spray directly on the plants.

Common examples are pig-weeds [lambs quarter, dock etc], mulleins etc. Wood sorel is another that is common in the Western Hemisphere. Plants that have a lemon tang taste are noted for being oxalates. [I still to this day stuff fresh caught trout with wood sorrel, it has a lemony taste]

I actually have a list of foods high in oxalic acid/oxalates back from when I was still dealing with calcium oxalate kidney stones. Asparagus, eggplant, beans & legumes, many dark green leafy vegetables, coffee, are all high in oxalic acid and will tend to bind with blood Ca and lead to killme stones.

I was using the wild-growing woolly mullein last year for most of my FPEs, simply because it was almost the only (wild) thing growing during that time. Also used a lot of local oxalis (clovers), as it always appears to be very healthy, nice and green with very few pests if any.

Want to know what's kind of funny, in an odd way, regarding the lemon flavor association with oxalates? Acidulated water, using fresh citrus (lemon is what I used because the research showed lemon is best) is how one helps prevent build-up of calcium oxalate crystals, as well as breaking down crystals already formed in the kidneys.

 

[Oregonism]

I actually have a list of foods high in oxalic acid/oxalates back from when I was still dealing with calcium oxalate kidney stones. Asparagus, eggplant, beans & legumes, many dark green leafy vegetables, coffee, are all high in oxalic acid and will tend to bind with blood Ca and lead to killme stones.

Also used a lot of local oxalis (clovers), as it always appears to be very healthy, nice and green with very few pests if any.

Want to know what's kind of funny, in an odd way, regarding the lemon flavor association with oxalates? Acidulated water, using fresh citrus (lemon is what I used because the research showed lemon is best) is how one helps prevent build-up of calcium oxalate crystals, as well as breaking down crystals already formed in the kidneys.

I picked some sorrel the other day Maiden, just came up. It is actually not a clover, but may be related to the starfruit, haha. Oaxalates interesting class of molecules, I tend to be on the wary side, picking with bare skin too much and just a few per fish if eaten, damn good that way, brook trout.

 

[Oregonism]

2013 LiquiFerts

2013 LiquiFerts

Just picked some nettle and have it up on the 1st dry rack. Going to make meal for foliar spraying.


Japanese fuchsia, don't know if I wanna even call it fpe anymore, more like a hydrolyze. Turned out this beautiful color. Feeding tomorrow with this. [Also have some literature about mineral content of flowers, only print copy, might have a link]


Big ole bag of rotting wild comfrey [Houndstongue]



Last, dry bokashi run of some honeysuckle that is weedy around me. Added the LAB from the littler jar, has the pungent parmesan smell. Not terrible. [Thinking of using the pectic enzyme to help breakdown material as it ferments in solution......

 

[SeaMaiden]

The deer have noshed my comfrey down to almost nothing. Once the dog starts sleeping outdoors at night that should no longer be a problem, but I think they may have killed my blueberries, too. This leaves me again with using what's growing around me for the time being.

Love the glove as a lid.

I can't recall, you brew/vint (make wine)?

 

[W89]

funny how things just get magically eaten isn't it.. like they never existed or something.

 

[Oregonism]

funny how things just get magically eaten isn't it.. like they never existed or something.

Actinomycetes

 

[Oregonism]

The deer have noshed my comfrey down to almost nothing. Once the dog starts sleeping outdoors at night that should no longer be a problem, but I think they may have killed my blueberries, too. This leaves me again with using what's growing around me for the time being.

Love the glove as a lid.

I can't recall, you brew/vint (make wine)?

I have to recycle, personally it is a must to the bare bone and the spare gloves that get thrown away anyway are excellent for this purpose!

I have made plum wine last two years, but this is more fun!

 

[Oregonism]

Cold enzyme hydrolysis of wheat starch granules

Cold enzyme hydrolysis of wheat starch granules

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cjce.5450760111/abstract

Abstract

Three α-amylase enzymes were used to hydrolyze wheat starch granules suspended in water below the gelatinization temperature. The rates of hydrolysis were determined at various temperatures, pH, enzyme and starch concentrations. Barley amylase was found to be the “best” enzyme when used at pH 4.5, 45°C and starch and enzyme concentrations of 30 and 8 mg/mL respectively. It was found that under these conditions, 98% of the starch granules were hydrolyzed in 3 hours, the same amount of time used in the industrial cooking process of soluble starch. Starch particles were observed to be attacked at specific points on the surface and then hydrolyzed from the inside-out. Some granules were hydrolyzed at a very fast rate with a first order rate constant estimated to be 40 h−1; but most granules were hydrolyzed slowly according to the Michaelis-Menten model and the best fit parameters were found to depend on enzyme type, pH and temperature.