Fermented plant extracts

[c-ray]

this might help

from the Advanced Guide to Fermentation with Syntropic EM Microbes by Vinny Pinto, 2004

pg. 82

Essential oils, spice oils, incense oils, olive oil, etc.

Many essential oils, especially if truly from natural sources and not synthetic, ferment quite well in AEM concoctions, and seem to be digested and potentized by the fermentation. However, be aware that some essential oils – especially in any significant quantity – can exercise powerful antimicrobial effects, and thus harm or kill your batch. Some oils to watch out for, aside from oregano oil, are pine oil, cedar oil, sage oil, tea tree oil, and rosemary oil (at least in stronger concentrations.) If an oil is known to be anti-microbial, try to keep its percentage by volume below 1% to 2% until you can gauge effects on batch. It is impossible to give exact allowed percentages of the more anti-microbial oils, due to incredible variance across brands, batches, etc., and also between natural and synthetic versions (many vendors sell synthetic as natural.)

By the way, there is a myth present in some corners of the EM world that all oils, if fermented by EM, will simply turn into alcohol. This is not true.

If you are interested in fermenting oils (e.g., essential oils, sesame oil, vegetable oils, traditional spice or incense oils, etc.) in bulk, rather than simply adding small amounts of oils to a batch of AEM as a minor supplement, please see the section below on Fermenting Oils.

pg. 86

Fermenting Oils

If you are interested in fermenting oils (e.g., essential oils, sesame oil, vegetable oils, traditional spice or incense oils, etc.) in bulk, rather than simply adding small amounts of oils to a batch of AEM as a minor supplement, this is the section for you.

For fermenting oils as the primary ingredient, my recommendations follow, and I have adjusted them for 8 ounce (228 ml.) batches, because bulk oils are often fermented in relatively small batches ranging from 4 ounces (about 114 ml.) to a 2 quarts (2 liters).

Some guidelines follow, all for 8 ounce batch sizes; scale to your needs:

• Pick your oils carefully. As mentioned in an earlier section, some oils, such as eucalyptus oil, tea tree oil, oregano oil, sage oil, mint oils, and some spice oils, are strongly anti-microbial in action if present in volumes larger than about 1% to 2% (sometimes even less!) And, many essential oils (be sure that you are purchasing natural oils, and not synthetic oils) are mildly anti-microbial, so you can use perhaps 4% to 10% by volume, but certainly no more, as larger amounts would kill or inhibit the beneficial microbes. It is impossible to give exact allowed versus prohibited percentages of either strongly anti-microbial or mildly anti-microbial oils, due to massive variance across brands, batches, etc., and also between natural and synthetic versions (many vendors sell synthetic as natural.) So, if you wish your fermented oil batch to remain largely oils when fermenting such oils, then those oils will need to be mixed with a base oil such as olive oil or a cold processed vegetable oil.

pg. 149

I have been told that all oils and essential oils, if fermented by EM, will simply turn into alcohol. Is this true?

It seems that there is indeed a myth present in some corners of the EM world that all oils, if fermented by EM, will simply turn into alcohol. This is not true. That would be as simplistic as saying that all sugars, if fermented, turn into alcohol. Yes, this may be true under very specialized and controlled circumstances, such as when producing beer or wine via fermentation only by beer or wine yeast. But, sugars can just as easily be fermented to yield a wide variety of other substances as well by employing other processes and microbes. For example, anaerobic fermentation of sugars or oils by EM will usually result in production of lactic acid and numerous antioxidants and energy/regenerative compounds, such as COQ10 and NADH.

 

[Oregonism]

Are you saying that if linalool [terpenoid][essential oils] was present that its anti-microbial activity would prevent fermentation?

That seems like the 1st part, then Mr. Pinto talks about in fact fermenting the essential oil.

So that is a little confusing.

Still talking about some differing things. Although they certainly mirror each other in ways.......... Fermenting existing essential oil, in my mind, means that it has already been processed/extracted. While I am trying to describe the methods of extraction itself.
Seems like organic solvents are really the only liquids that are terpenoid/ terpene soluble. Is the end result of fermentation a carbon solvent? Still trying to decipher that bit I guess. [Mir Pinto didn't even nail it down] [In fact I think he added a little more ambiguity....but still good info]

In my mind, the end result of fermentation, terpenoids may be present........ But even that doesn't seem quite possible unless they are chelated somehow during the fermentation process. Since terps have a carboxyl functional group [terps], the oxygen could be liberated [broken bond] and then you have a diff molecule structure altogether, but dependent upon what particular (+) and (-) are floating around in solution as well.

Sorry to dither on, might be wandering off the path.........


[Edit: I do have some notes on a Pinto paper I have. A history of extracts in the US. Good stuff. I will get it up, there was a link posted way way way back, still haven't come across it twice though.]

 

[greenmatter]

PLEASE HELP ME BROTHERS AND SISTERS, for i have fucked myself pretty good this time ..........

i walked out in the garage, turned on the light and thought what is splattered on the wall?

then my brain caught up to my nose and realized one of my FPEs had had uhhhhhhh ...... vented ........ (and that would be an understatement)

i cleaned it all up but the place smells like death (it was nettle tea) so i sprayed everything i could with peroxide. nothing has dried yet but there is still a funk in there that that i could do without

anybody had this happen in a place where you actually had to clean it up? what did you use to kill the smell?

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

greenmatter
maybe try some vinegar and baking soda and spray everything with that. or you can take a buck and fill it with the vinegar and let it sit in the garage with the doors closed with a heater running. just some tips that i used to get the stank from my car after some jerk spilled an iced cappaccino on the upholstery. it worked to get the sour out but my car stunk like douche for weeks...shouldn't matter in a garage as much i suppose...
good luck though...

 

[SeaMaiden]

PLEASE HELP ME BROTHERS AND SISTERS, for i have fucked myself pretty good this time ..........

i walked out in the garage, turned on the light and thought what is splattered on the wall?

then my brain caught up to my nose and realized one of my FPEs had had uhhhhhhh ...... vented ........ (and that would be an understatement)

i cleaned it all up but the place smells like death (it was nettle tea) so i sprayed everything i could with peroxide. nothing has dried yet but there is still a funk in there that that i could do without

anybody had this happen in a place where you actually had to clean it up? what did you use to kill the smell?

Oh my Lord! Well, I've never had to clean up after a nettle tea explosion, but I have had to clean up godawful stinks. I found a product called Odorcide 210. It's used by crime scene clean-up folks, who are also the ones who clean up when someone fell down, couldn't get up and died right there, which is a *hell* of a stink, let me tell you!

So, I advise you to purchase a bottle of Odorcide 210 and keep it on hand at all times. Let me find you a link. Here you go. I got myself the quart size back when my dog was still a puppy and I still have it.

Google results: Odorcide 210.

 

[c-ray]

enzymes

 

[c-ray]

a glass carboy with a diy carbon coffee filter on top is my prefered pfe setup atm.. even better would be one of those amphora style carboys, not sure what they are called but a winemaking buddy had one sitting around, looked pretty sweet, big and round like a ball almost..

 

[Dkgrower]

That really sucks, had that happen 2 times, nasty clean up i just used hot water and soap.

Now i put a piece of water hose in the lid and down into a plastic bottel with water, then no air come in the fermenting container and then u dont have to vent also.

 

[Oregonism]

Concentrated vinegar/H30 or diluted boric acid also come to mind. 30% concentrated vinegar is available at feed stores, I use it as a non-toxic way to clean blackberry's, but it is invigorating as it works, something about charging the O molecules around and inside you. You can find concentrated Hydrogen Peroxide too, little harder, all are fairly benign to clean when used correctly, no lasting residues, kills micro etc.


Look for these...the basic shape can be made out of hose. See-thru works, so you can monitor your trap[water] level. Basically they bubble as methane is released, this is a brewers trap.



C-ray has it right about carboys, even small 1 gal. DIY carboys will work.

 

[Oregonism]

LAB

LAB

Batch on the r. started 10/2010 Rice Wash LAB mother [followed the instructions on the 1st page]
Batch on the l. started 12/2011. [added mixture from fermented hot peppers, [diy Sriracha][Vinny Pinto idea]

Started new batches 12/26/2012 and they already are eating like crazy. [There is about 1/2 cup 140-150ml of milk, along scooped with three teaspoons or 14-15ml's of the above mothers into these Organic jars] 10:1 ratio

 

[Dkgrower]

Nice Oregonisme - that is some difference - also u water has that yellow color i dont get that every time.

U got any tips - do u keep em warm all the time - would love to hear how u go about making EM.

Bom shiva

 

[MrSterling]

In regards to making fpe from flower blossoms, it would seem to me best to pick flowers right before they bloom. Seems everything would be at its maximum at that point. Anyone able to confirm this or steer me right? My camellia bush is about to explode into bloom .

 

[Scrappy4]

Jay, or anyone. I have a question. I am winding down a grow and won't have another for a fairly long while. I have about 5 gallons of FPE in a couple jugs. I combined what was left of comfrey, dandelion, horsetail, and alfalfa FPE' to fill the jugs. I am trying to keep them from freezing in my garage, but I'm also in the middle of moving, so I'm wondering if freezing will seriously harm them, and just how long will they remain viable, froze or unfroze? Scrappy

 

[MrSterling]

Was it the old coot who was freezing tea doses in ice cube trays?

 

[bajangreen]

Is the color of the final FPE and indicator of the nutrient content?

 

[Oregonism]

Nice Oregonisme - that is some difference - also u water has that yellow color i dont get that every time.

U got any tips - do u keep em warm all the time - would love to hear how u go about making EM.

Bom shiva

Thanks DK! The yellow really started to stand out after about 12 months. I always found the less raunchy smelling the rice solution, the better success I had. The pungent smelling water always stayed grey [maybe too much ammonia or something?]

I started to follow Sophisto's first post on making the LAB and pretty much follow it still. The oldest bottle is my rice wash. The other was started off hot pepper juice.
Even being over 2 years old, these guys and gals are Potent!

I don't keep my jars and milk ultra clean, but the 25% airspace I leave is important and most IMPORTANTLY, make sure it is Airtight! I used to double check with latex gloves if I was unsure in the past. [VENT too!] Unless you have a water trap, I try to vent my jars religiously.

These are actually stored at about 10-15 C or 45-55F throughout the year, kept away in the dark space, but exposed to some light from time to time.

Now I started using things like sourdough starter, pickle juice, tabasco, other pepper sauces, these things can be added to the milk solution, tofu liquid, other rotting juice, etc. Worlds of possibility.

 

[Oregonism]

Jay, or anyone. I have a question. I am winding down a grow and won't have another for a fairly long while. I have about 5 gallons of FPE in a couple jugs. I combined what was left of comfrey, dandelion, horsetail, and alfalfa FPE' to fill the jugs. I am trying to keep them from freezing in my garage, but I'm also in the middle of moving, so I'm wondering if freezing will seriously harm them, and just how long will they remain viable, froze or unfroze? Scrappy

Scrappy, I don't know if this helps, but I have a restaurant oil container [4 gallons, deep fryer oil] that has a bunch of my early season/ nettle fert.
Its going on 2 years old and has frozen at least twice outside.
I also use it as my seedling soak and just popped some new babies as of 12/31/2012, so it is still viable. Plants are getting water with just nettle/secret ingredient and rainwater and loving it.

 

[Dkgrower]

Thats the difference i ditten notice that they where a year old.

I seperate the milk after 1 month or less and then make a mother solution with LAB water and molasses, tryed adding wheat bran.

Thanks fore telling about how u do it, i gonna try and make some and set them aside to see

i use those natural fermented bamboo shot - they contain over 300 differnet LABs - Thank u coot fore that link.

I really dig, LAB they have change my growing so much and i really love to work with em

Thanks DK! The yellow really started to stand out after about 12 months. I always found the less raunchy smelling the rice solution, the better success I had. The pungent smelling water always stayed grey [maybe too much ammonia or something?]

I started to follow Sophisto's first post on making the LAB and pretty much follow it still. The oldest bottle is my rice wash. The other was started off hot pepper juice.
Even being over 2 years old, these guys and gals are Potent!

I don't keep my jars and milk ultra clean, but the 25% airspace I leave is important and most IMPORTANTLY, make sure it is Airtight! I used to double check with latex gloves if I was unsure in the past. [VENT too!] Unless you have a water trap, I try to vent my jars religiously.

These are actually stored at about 10-15 C or 45-55F throughout the year, kept away in the dark space, but exposed to some light from time to time.

Now I started using things like sourdough starter, pickle juice, tabasco, other pepper sauces, these things can be added to the milk solution, tofu liquid, other rotting juice, etc. Worlds of possibility.

 

[Tweetybird]

Fermented plant extracts

I've now made nettle, comfrey, & horsetail FPE. My cannabis plants always looked fine, but their neighbors, tomato & cucumbers looked terrible. The FPE has made a huge noticeable difference in the veggies. Strange the veggies are heavier feeders than cannabis. However, the cannabis plants also get the same treatment & don't complain. Seems the FPE is immediately available & quite strong. I dilute one cup of each FPE to 5 gallons water. Very economical & easy.

 

[Dkgrower]

I've now made nettle, comfrey, & horsetail FPE. My cannabis plants always looked fine, but their neighbors, tomato & cucumbers looked terrible. The FPE has made a huge noticeable difference in the veggies. Strange the veggies are heavier feeders than cannabis. However, the cannabis plants also get the same treatment & don't complain. Seems the FPE is immediately available & quite strong. I dilute one cup of each FPE to 5 gallons water. Very economical & easy.

Nice - FPE rocks and plants love it