Ez's "Summer Newbie Contest" grow

[BushyOldGrower]

Here's what I think...

When transplanting use only water with no feeds or additives. What is liquid karma?

Another thing is once transplanted they don't start really goring again for about five days or so.

Your pots dry fast and I water daily so you may be onto some good watering amount for daily watering.

Check run off ph.

I think they need a little more time in veg and when you see them starting to gro fast again flip them to flower. I call this "catching the shoot".

Once rooted into big pots it's time to have them flower in early flower when this shoot is happening. Timing this right helps yields a lot because they will get a lot bigger in flower.

 

[Ez Rider]

Ez,
Sounds like a good strategy. If you're willing to do all that weighing, you'll be working with precision.

But truthfully, I know it's different when you see them "live" and everday, but in the pics they look just fine to me. I'm betting it's gonna be a nice crop. Good luck. -granger

I was just looking at the pics and thinking the same. If you look closely at the first pic in both #17 and #18, there are several plants that are wilted/obviously unhappy. They are still growing, but vigor has clearly dropped off. I've got a theory, but I'll get to that in a moment...

Here's what I think...

When transplanting use only water with no feeds or additives. What is liquid karma?

Another thing is once transplanted they don't start really goring again for about five days or so.

Your pots dry fast and I water daily so you may be onto some good watering amount for daily watering.

Check run off ph.

I think they need a little more time in veg and when you see them starting to gro fast again flip them to flower. I call this "catching the shoot".

Once rooted into big pots it's time to have them flower in early flower when this shoot is happening. Timing this right helps yields a lot because they will get a lot bigger in flower.

Liquid Karma is a kelp extract product. Allegedly promotes microbial activity...it's very mild.Guaranteed Analysis:
Total Nitrogen (N): 0.1%, 0.1% Water Soluble Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5): 0.1%
Soluble Potash (K20): 0.5%
ALSO CONTAINS NON-PLAND FOOD INGREDIENT:
0.5% Humic Acid derived from Leonardite
0.01% Yucca extract
Derived from: Kelp seaweed extract.

I've seen plants take a few days after transplant to get going again, but it's been 3 weeks since I potted up.

Do you water daily, even in veg? It seems to me that a fully saturated pot will need at least 2 days between watering, in veg at any rate. I watered all the plants to the "saturation" point yesterday. I haven't weighed any plants today, but I couldn't imagine giving them more water until tomorrow. It seems that ~5lbs of water is the range between which the pots are saturated, and the point where they begin to wilt. You and I are using similar sized pots, and similar mixes. It seems to me that if you water daily, you must be keeping the medium fairly wet, all the time. Is this correct? I've always been under the impression that the medium should go from mostly wet, to mostly dry in between waterings.

I've got no runoff to check. Per instructions in the "organic soil" forum, this is a water only grow. Using only un-ph'ed RO water, no added nutes. This leads to my theory. As a result of over/under-watering issues, I believe that the plants haven't rooted very well yet. The roots aren't spreading into the nutrient rich medium, because it's always too wet/dry. They aren't fully feeding, and this is also hampering root development. I have to say, all the plants look better today, after a good watering yesterday.

I agree that I need more veg time. I like your "catching the shoot" phrase. I know what you mean, and I'm waiting(impatiently) to see it. I hoping I can get these into flower within 2 weeks. I'm going to have to re-top the sls's and most of the bb's as it is, due to headroom requirements. If I get the plants super bushy, will this inhibit stretch in flower?


So, here's how they look today. The pics don't fully show it, but they look a lot better now. Much perkier. Here's the sls/bb tray:

And the sb tray:

As you can see, the sls/bb have filled in way faster than the sb. The sb is an awesome plant, but she takes her time. Hopefully, with some extra attention to detail, I can get things into high gear.

On a side note, the cuts I took 9days ago are starting to root. Looks like 100% success for the cuts, but I've always had good luck with that.

 

[Granger2]

I think if you stay on the same track till the plants reach a point where they'll take all the water they can get, they'll continue to improve.

When the soil starts to dry, the roots seek and expand. Good luck. -granger

 

[BushyOldGrower]

Right, plants once fully rooted in a pot suck all the water up.

In veg not all get watered every day, we check the weight of the pot. If a plant is fully rooted my rooms are 80F and my lighting is pretty intense so my plants usually need daily watering but we may not soak as much when watering.

Your plants look good EZ so stay on track as you are. You really have good attention to details and the liquid karma sounds ok.

Remember that transplanting is a shock. We do give sour bubble more time in veg but it's a strong clone. We do continuous production so how long a plant takes in veg really doesn't matter.

We take them to flower having been topped once and vegging another month. I get them into three or four gallon pots in veg and let them root for at least a week but they are almost three ft. Tall by then and they go to veg at four ft.

Topping doesn't stop them from getting tall in flower but my SB clone is leggy.

Good luck!

 

[Ez Rider]

Right, plants once fully rooted in a pot suck all the water up.

In veg not all get watered every day, we check the weight of the pot. If a plant is fully rooted my rooms are 80F and my lighting is pretty intense so my plants usually need daily watering but we may not soak as much when watering.

Your plants look good EZ so stay on track as you are. You really have good attention to details and the liquid karma sounds ok.

Remember that transplanting is a shock. We do give sour bubble more time in veg but it's a strong clone. We do continuous production so how long a plant takes in veg really doesn't matter.

We take them to flower having been topped once and vegging another month. I get them into three or four gallon pots in veg and let them root for at least a week but they are almost three ft. Tall by then and they go to veg at four ft.

Topping doesn't stop them from getting tall in flower but my SB clone is leggy.

Good luck!

It's been 2 days since I watered. The sls/bb tray will need water tomorrow, the sb's maybe/maybe not. These plants had almost a month in 6" pots, under a 2x4 Blaze T-5 set-up. They've been 3 weeks in the 3.5gal pots under the 1K's. The plants have all been topped twice. The sls's are 18-20", the bb's are ~16" and the sb's are ~14". I'd like to get them to ~3' before I flip.

You don't pot up to your final pot until just before flower, correct? You're growing them to 3' in the 2gal pots, correct? How many main branches do you have? How tall does a 4' sb finish? Do you think going from a 6" pot to a 3.5gal is too much in one shot? Maybe I should go 6"-2gal-3.5gal? Sorry for all the ???

The "wilting" is still going on too. I have however, noticed a pattern. Around 3 hours before the lights go off, the plants suddenly take on a wilted appearance. This closeup is one of the better examples of how they look when the "wilt" comes.

The bb's and a few of the sls's are the most affected, but all the plants(except 1 sls) are doing it to some degree. When the light comes on, they have the same wilted look to them. 2-3 hours later, and suddenly, voila!, they all perk back up. WTF is going on? This is the plants during the perk up phase(sorry for the hps). The plant in the upper oval is the same 1 an in the close-up, 5hrs after lights on. The plant perked back up on it's own a few hours after lights on...no water added. The plant in the lower oval is the sls that never gets droopy. That's how I want all my plants to look, all the time.

After the "perk up" the plants all look fairly good, they just don't look really good, like the plant in the lower oval. Any Ideas?

 

[BushyOldGrower]

It could just be water shock that happens when plants get wet. But your pots may be drying fast and that's why you give q lot of water at a time.

I normally start in cups then transplant to one gallons in veg then about a week before flowering the go to three or four gallon pots.

We top them at about a month old and this usually get us two or four colas. We get about three z plants with decent yielders.

I get that with my SB clone and they end up around five ft tall max. I veg as long as it takes to get the topped plants up to about forty inches tall.

 

[Ez Rider]

It could just be water shock that happens when plants get wet. But your pots may be drying fast and that's why you give q lot of water at a time.

They do this wilt thing every cycle, regardless of if I've watered or not. I'm seeing from your info that I'm going too big with my containers too soon. Maybe this is causing the problem?

I normally start in cups then transplant to one gallons in veg then about a week before flowering the go to three or four gallon pots.

If I had kept these girls in 1gal pots till they were ready to flower, I'd definitely be watering every day like you're saying. It would seem I potted up too soon. My sb's are ~14", with 4-6 stalks. There's no way I can wait for them to hit 3' this time out. The sls would push them out of the tent. They're close to 2' tall already. I'll most likely have to flower when the sb's are ~2'. I would have thought keeping the plants in 1gal pots for most of the veg would inhibit growth, you're telling me the opposite.

We top them at about a month old and this usually get us two or four colas. We get about three z plants with decent yielders.

I get that with my SB clone and they end up around five ft tall max. I veg as long as it takes to get the topped plants up to about forty inches tall.

Thanks for the info. I'm set to do all sb, with a little bb next run, and I'm now seriously re-thinking how I'll go about it. I've read you book, I just never realized how long you were keeping the plants in little pots. I'm still finding it hard to picture a 3.5' sb plant in a 1gal pot. If it works for you, I'm certainly willing to give it a shot.

 

[BushyOldGrower]

They get to be pretty big in veg in the one gallons.

The same thing happens if you plant a seed in a five gallon pot. It takes forever to root and then it grows like hell!

In flower partially rooted plants start shooting up so rooting space is needed in flower. Better a smaller plant in a big pot when going to flower than a fully rooted plant that will be root bound.

Keeping them in one gallon pots until 7-10 days before flowering seems about right to catch the shoot.

This is why multiple transplants get the fastest rate of growth in veg.

Flowering plants of differing heights is easy really. Just put the short plants on pots to keep the canopy even.

Don't be at all discouraged EZ...you are doing very well and learning fast. Your system will be clicking in time. It's not rocket science.

 

[Ez Rider]

Flowering plants of differing heights is easy really. Just put the short plants on pots to keep the canopy even.

My real problem is(all tent grower's problem is) headroom in the tent. I've got just over 6.5' of vertical space inside...maybe 4' max for the plants once you figure in the length of the pots, the lights, and allow for space under the lights.

If you were forced to grow sb in this situation, how would you go about it? Just a reminder: the tent is ~5'x9', lit by (2) 1K HPS.

Don't be at all discouraged EZ...you are doing very well and learning fast. Your system will be clicking in time. It's not rocket science.

Thanks BOG, I really appreciate that. Knowing I now possess the genetics to produce the KIND, has really encouraged me to get things dialed in. I've been steadily eliminating/minimizing my limiting factors, and it's starting to pay off. Once I work out the proper plant density for my flower room AND start vegging in 1 gal pots, I think I'll be set...until I can get a bigger place. I don't wan't to invest in an upsize until I'm on my A game though. I've witnessed a few COSTLY failures, and it's not something I want to foot the bill for.

 

[Ez Rider]

Just wanted to say I'm still in it, and that the grow is starting to go well. I just started a new job(with OT), and I haven't had much time.This weekend, I'll take some pics, and post about what's been going on this week. Definitely on track to flip within the next several days.

 

[Ez Rider]

Turns out, I was under watering the plants. The mix got really dry just below the surface, and the rest of the water would run through the middle, making me think the pot was fully wet. I had to take my pots apart to figure this out.

After I saw what was happening, I slowly watered all the pots HEAVILY. They weigh ~20lbs when fully wet/drained, not the ~15 that I thought. It's only been a few days, and the plants are making an aggressive comeback.

Sls/bb:

Sb:

I'll have to top/prune the sls/bb plants again before flower, just for the headroom. I'm planning on going into flower by the middle of next week, so I guess I'll top/prune tomorrow after work. I'm going to really have to prune those ladies back. Vigor has retuned, and daily growth is very noticeable. Now that the water situation has been solved, I have every expectation of an excellent grow. The sls/bb seems to take ~44oz/day, the sb ~1/2gal, every other day. One thing is for sure. I'm positive there is no way I could overwater this mix...lesson learned, I won't be greedy with the water again. Thank you BurnOne.


@ BOG: I've noticed the SB grows A LOT better/faster with enough water, and thank you for all your support.

@ BurnOne: Thanks again.

So everything is looking really good. I'm having a time shortage due to going back to work, but I should get back in the groove in a week or 2. Until then. the updates may be a little sparse.

 

[tleaf jr.]

looking good EZ im glad you figured out your wilt problem ,Ive seen this happen to my pots after their rootbound and all the nutes have been sucked up outta the dirt ....such a waste of water and nutes

 

[Ez Rider]

Had to abandon the project. I mistakenly used hydrated lime, which F'ed up my mix. The plants weren't growing well at all, and I have a new batch of reasonably health clones ready to go anyway. Major bummer. Be careful when mixing soil!

 

[Granger2]

Too bad, Ez. Next time will be better. Good luck. -granger

 

[BurnOne]

Be careful when mixing soil!

Yep. Nobody here has ever grown and not had problems. At least you have a backup plan and clones.
I'll bet your next grow will be successful.
Burn1