Everything you need to know to get healthy clones!

[Ultra Current]

Cloning in Aeroponics with Ultra Current
I've seen many growers who still have problems cloning and also newer growers that want to know how to clone correctly so I will explain in detail in this post how to get nice healthy roots on your cuts.

There are many bad pathogens, bacteria, etc that we just cannot see but we can tell that they are there when things go wrong. Because of this it is very important to have a sterile working station and that all tools and equipment used are sterilized for the cloning process. You also have bacteria and bad stuff on your hands and because of that you will want to wear a new pair of latex gloves. First we will get into cloning with an EZ Cloner and then I will show you how to clone in Rockwool. In the EZ Cloners or Aero Cloners, bacteria and pathogens can hide in many places that are impossible for the grower to get to and 2 of those places include the inside of the pump and the inside of your manifold. I'm sure you have realized by now that the first time you used your machine when it was brand new, it was a snap and then it got more difficult. If you know what I'm talking about then I would like to inform you that you most likely have bacteria in your system and bleach or physan 20 or any Chlorine product will not kill all of it all of the time. There is no way to scrub the inside of the manifold cause there is no way in there. The way that you want to sterilize your system is by using Erythromycin that you can get at an exotic fish store. Please refer to my Cyanobacteria thread for more information on using Erythromycin. Any cutting utensils that you will be using will need to be washed with the highest percentage Isopropol Alcohol that you can get at the supermarket. The area that you are using to take your cuts will also have to be cleaned with bleach or some good cleaning products that you have.

At least a few days before you take clones, you will want to give your MOMs a nice shot of your Bloom nutrients. In my experience i've noticed that when you use less Nitrogen and more Phosphorous on your Moms before you take cuttings, you have better and faster results.

Cloning in Aeroponics
Right before I take my cuttings, I fill up my EZ Cloner 60 with 10 Gallons of water and add:

20 mL General Hydroponics Flora Series Micro
30 mL General Hydroponics Flora Series Bloom
3 mL SuperTHRIVE
5-7 drops of Clorox Bleach (non scented)

This cloning formula above has been tried and tested and took me years to get to this from many experiments. This formula will save you like 99% of your money that you waste buying all those expensive gimmicks at the grow shop.

I pH my solution to 6.0 before I start taking my cuttings. Also I would like to explain Dissolved Oxygen and the importance of it when growing in hydroponics. In your Aero Cloners you will want to use an air pump that didn't come with your product. All these companies supply wack air pumps that give you nothing. The size of the air pump will be determined by how much water you have in your system. You will want to count your water in Liters and get a pump that puts at least half of those liters per hour. For example, if you are using an EZ Cloner 60 then you have 10 Gallons of solution which is also 37.80 Liters. Personally I would use an air pump rated at 20 liters per hour for this situation. I also use at least 3 air stones in my cloners at minimum and spread them out. I usually let the cloner run for at least 6 hours or so before I take my cuts so I can get the water nice and warm. I have done many tests and even have raised my water temps to the mid 90's to prove that I can still get amazing cuts at those temperatures but I wouldn't recommend having temps this high. If your temps do go that high because of things you cannot control then you will need a bigger air pump rated for the same amount of liters in your system per hour. For example if you have 37.80 liters of solution then you will want an air pump rated for at least 37.80 per hour. From personal experience, I like my water to be anywhere from 75 F - 80 F. I think I've covered all the information that I need before we take our cuts so lets begin.

I visit many grows that have problems in my state because people know how experienced that I am. I see many problems when other growers are taking cuts. The first potential problem that I see is people scraping the stems of the cut to try and get more roots. This can only potentially cause you more problems and in my experience you don't need to do this to get crazy root sites on your cuts. You will see in 6 days how many crazy root sites that I get without scraping or doing anything to the cuts. Another problem that I see is people taking a razor blade and splitting the stem up the middle in 2. When I see this I just start laughing at the grower cause I can't contain myself. Then they put it down on the bathroom sink and wonder why they can't get roots after all there cuts are infected with pathogens and / or bacteria. When you see what my roots will look like in 6 days, you will be truly amazed, I guarantee it.

When I take cuts from my MOMs, I take a piece of a branch longer than I need so I can make a diagonal cut before I place it into the cloner. Once I take my cutting, I cut off most of the leaves and side branching. I always want to make my diagonal cut about 1/2 inch below the point that I cut the fan leaf and or side branch so that I can potentially get more of my solution to penetrate the cut more effectively. Here are a couple of older pictures (be aware that these pics are 18 months old) to show how I do it:


Once I take my cuts, I make sure to cut the remaining leaves so that the cut doesn't have to waste energy on saving a big leaf and can put all of it's energy into growing a nice healthy root. Here is the process in my pictures:


The last and final step is to place the cuttings into the Neoprene Collars and make sure that the stem is exposed at least 1.5 inches and then you are good to go like the pictures below:


The only thing that you will have to do from this point is to add in 5 - 7 drops of Clorox Bleach every 5 days. Remember that is for an EZ Cloner 60 which holds 10 Gallons of water. If you have more or less than 10 Gallons then you will want to add 1 drop of Clorox Bleach (non scented) per 2 Gallons of solution every 5 days to give you a residual level of 0.50 PPM Chlorine. In the next post I will show you how to clone using Rockwool. I hope you enjoy my information that I work hard to bring you.

 

[Ultra Current]

Cloning in Rockwool with Ultra Current
Please refer to the beginning of the post above and start with clean utensils and tools before you start this process. First I start with a light cover from a 60 watt CFL from home depot and wash it off with soap and water. After that I soak 1.5 inch Grodan Starter Mini-Blocks in plain tap water for 15 minutes in a tupperware and then I drain out all the water from the tupperware and very gently press on the cubes to drain out just a little more water. The water that I drain out is not a lot and maybe about 10%.


After this, I soak the cubes in my solution for about an hour. The solution that I use per Gallon is as follows:

3 mL General Hydroponics Micro
4.5 mL General Hydroponics Bloom
7 drops SuperTHRIVE

After the cubes soak in the solution, I slightly drain just a little bit of the solution out, but only less than 10%.


After that I take my cuttings from healthy MOMs and cut off the lower leaves while keeping the top leaves in tact. Then I take a diagonal cut about 1/4 to 1/2 inch below the point where I cut off a leaf.


This is what it looks like when I've made my cuts. Notice the 2 points on the stem from where I cut off the 2 leaves. These 2 point will be placed in the cube and that will be 2 more points where roots will come from as well as the main diagonal cut that I made on the stem.


If the cutting has any big leaves on it, I trim the leaves so the plants can worry more about growing roots instead of saving big leaves.


Now I just slide it down into the cube and go pretty close to the bottom of the cube without being able to see it touch the bottom though. I make sure that the points where I cut off the leaves completely make there way into the cube. When I slide the cutting into the cube, I make sure to not put it in the hole that the company supplies for you. I actually turn the cube upside down and avoid the hole completely cause it is too big for you.


I take the rest of my cuttings and put them onto my light cover and make sure that all the cubes are touching. I can fit up to 18 cuttings on this clear light cover.


Finally, I place the tray into a Walmart grocery bag and tie it shut but I make sure to leave a little hole where I made the tie so they don't suffocate and then I place them under a 60 watt CFL light. I check the cubes every few days to make sure there's enough water in the cubes and to also make sure that no condensation builds up on the bag. If the cubes start to dry out, I add a little bit more solution but I squeeze out the excess so they are not water logged. I can usually get roots in 7-10 days and after about 7 or 9 days you should take them out of the bag and just look under the clear tray to see if any roots came in. That's the beauty of these clear trays, you don't need to disturb the roots to see if you have roots, you just look underneath. You can also use this same idea with a propagation tray and clear dome. As the plants are rooting I want to have the temperature of the cubes at 78 degrees F so if you need a heat mat to achieve this then please use one. Enjoy!

 

[Herborizer]

Good thread and lots of useful information. Though, it's a little misleading because it's mostly a howto on your environment. Some more areas to consider: Temperature, humidity levels, embolisms, safety of using dangerous chemicals like antibiotics, light intensity, hardening off, etc.

This is a very good guide and I am sure many people will have success following these two methods described here, but it's not everything one needs to know. Especially if said persons environment isn't like yours.

 

[Herborizer]

If I may contribute to your thread....

Also, if someone's water needs bleach for the aero cloner, then it's probably needed in rockwool. I know that in my environment I need hypochlorite added to my water no matter which medium I use. If I don't, I have sporadic results.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

The way that you want to sterilize your system is by using Erythromycin that you can get at an exotic fish store.

If you are losing cuttings to a fungus such as Pythium, an antibiotic such as Erythromycin will have no effect.

 

[Ultra Current]

Good thread and lots of useful information. Though, it's a little misleading because it's mostly a howto on your environment. Some more areas to consider: Temperature, humidity levels, embolisms, safety of using dangerous chemicals like antibiotics, light intensity, hardening off, etc.

This is a very good guide and I am sure many people will have success following these two methods described here, but it's not everything one needs to know. Especially if said persons environment isn't like yours.

Medium temps were covered. Humidity doesn't have to be covered cause in the Cloner itself you have close to 100% RH and in the bag or dome too. The safety of antibiotics was mentioned also by stating, "Please refer to my Cyanobacteria thread for more information on using Erythromycin.". I use bleach in the aero and never in the rockwool. I've rooted over 10,000 cuts in rockwool and have had over 99% success and never have used bleach.

If you are losing cuttings to a fungus such as Pythium, an antibiotic such as Erythromycin will have no effect.

Same goes for you. "Please refer to my Cyanobacteria thread for more information on using Erythromycin." if someone reads the thread and follows all steps stated, problem solved.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Same goes for you. "Please refer to my Cyanobacteria thread for more information on using Erythromycin." if someone reads the thread and follows all steps stated, problem solved.

It's great that you've had success with your methods.
There is a lot to be learned from your techniques. However your experiences do not negate the experiences of others.

Your Cyanobacteria thread addresses using Erythromicin, an antibacterial compound, to combat a slime that is most likely a Cyanobacteria. Erythromycin has no effect upon fungi. Zilch.

"Damping Off" is a common scourge of greenhouse culture causing mass casualties of rootings and seedlings. The most common organism that causes Damping Off is Pythium, a fungus. If your clones are being attacked by a fungal pathogen, Erythromycin will not do a damned thing to help.

If a person's clones are being swarmed with a Cyanobacteria, then your experiences are relevant. If someone has a fungal pathogen killing their clones, then your experiences are irrelevant. In this case....

... if someone reads the thread and follows all steps stated, problem solved.

... probably not.

 

[Ultra Current]

It's great that you've had success with your methods.
There is a lot to be learned from your techniques. However your experiences do not negate the experiences of others.

Your Cyanobacteria thread addresses using Erythromicin, an antibacterial compound, to combat a slime that is most likely a Cyanobacteria. Erythromycin has no effect upon fungi. Zilch.

"Damping Off" is a common scourge of greenhouse culture causing mass casualties of rootings and seedlings. The most common organism that causes Damping Off is Pythium, a fungus. If your clones are being attacked by a fungal pathogen, Erythromycin will not do a damned thing to help.

If a person's clones are being swarmed with a Cyanobacteria, then your experiences are relevant. If someone has a fungal pathogen killing their clones, then your experiences are irrelevant. In this case....




... probably not.

If you read the whole 1st post in the cyano thread then you see that you treat with 4x the bleach or chlorine first. Problem solved.

 

[Ultra Current]

Ultra, I appreciate that you are trying to help others, but your approach of one-size-fits-all only brings a discredit to your findings and clouds the situation.

Perfect example the rockwool comment you made above. YOU have never had issues with Rockwool. Guess what, myself and MANY others have. Damping off as Crusader describes is a perfect example.

One size does not in fact fit all...

This is one of the many reasons that in scientific research that sterile/lab environments are used. The scientists are trying to isolate the perfect environment, for which then can be reproduced somewhere else.

Edit: I get that this is a forum and not a lab. Though, our research is very real and valid. Your contribution is a great one, but blanket statement are not helping.

If you read my first post it states, "There are many bad pathogens, bacteria, etc that we just cannot see but we can tell that they are there when things go wrong. Because of this it is very important to have a sterile working station and that all tools and equipment used are sterilized for the cloning process."

 

[FreezerBoy]

Let's stick to the topic, which is cloning. Posts on member etiquette go in the Toker's Den. Snipes at other members have no forum and should be left unposted.

That said, no other area will see such disparate results from identical procedures. What saves your cuts will kill another's dead. When this happens, try another method. There are a million ways to clone in the Naked City. It's senseless to stick to one that gives you grief. CLONERS- a collection of various methods

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

An aerocloner is basically a hydroponic system. People have developed a number of strategies for managing their hydroponic systems. In a rather dualistic way of looking at it, one can try to avoid pathogen problems by striving towards sterility to create an environment as free of organisms (other than cannabis of course) as possible, or one can strive to create a thriving community of organisms which work together to keep pathogens at a bearable level.

Cloning is like surgery. The tissues are cut and open to the environment. A very small number of pathogens entering the wound can result in failure. In attempting to maintain a sterile aero-cloning environment, we have to give some attention to the plant surface. You can bleach the aerocloner, sterilize your razor, and wear surgical gloves, but you'll be defeated by the spores and microbes which coat the plant surfaces. The cloner's water spray will wash these down the stem to the open cut. Droplets will carry these microbes down into the water bath where they will get pumped through the sprayers and out onto the other cuttings. If you were going in for a major elective surgery, wouldn't you take a shower first?

Any attempt then to limit pathogens should address those that might be upon the stem surface of the cuttings. Maybe the first step in the process should be to dip each cutting in hydrogen peroxide? Should they be temporarily soaked in a chlorine solution? Would chlorine work fast enough for a dip or short soak to disinfect the stem surface? Obviously though, you can bleach the living daylights out of your cloner, but if you're introducing pathogens with your cuttings then it's no longer sterile.

Using the other approach of encouraging a thriving organic community, it still wouldn't be a bad idea to do this initial disinfecting dip. But like someone who lost their gut flora by taking antibiotics, it's not going to be vacant for long. You might eat yoghurt to help re-establish a new microbe flora in your gut. Something is going to colonize that vacant environment and you don't want it to be something nasty.

We can do the same for our cuttings by inoculating them with non-harmful microbes. There are a number of products which will do this. Some contain microbes which attack pathogens. An example here is the fungus Trichoderma which attacks Pithium and is found in a number of mychorrizal mixes. Some mychorrizae enhance root development also.

The point here is to get the plant surfaces colonized by non-harmful organisms before pathogens can take hold. Acknowledge that a sterile environment is impossible and strive instead to outnumber the pathogens with beneficial microbes. People have reported success using earthworm casting teas for this.

My aerocloners worked great until they didn't. But is the problem that my cloner is contaminated, or is my grow room contaminated? My outside vegetable garden had no pests the first summer I planted, but I only got one free summer. I'll never have a pest free yard and I'll never have a sterile growroom.

I'm now fighting mushy stems which fit the descriptions for Pithium infection. I've used sterile tools and methods, bleached the cloners countless times, added UV sterilizers, and still had mass casualties. Every surface in my grow room is probably covered in spores and the coir media full. It's like getting mold on your cheese. are you going to nuke the inside of your refrigerator? Now with my first batch of cuttings in which I introduced microbes, I've still had deaths from the mush, but the numbers of plants with roots are much greater and the roots are lusher.

When the Erythromicin arrives I'll give it a try to be sure I'm not dealing with a bacterial or cyanobacterial problem, but I don't expect to maintain a sterile environment. In the future, any time I eliminate the microbe surface flora upon my cuttings, I will make an effort to install a beneficial flora in its place.

edit;

I've been told to add two drops of bleach to a dish of water. Place the fresh cuttings in this dish for 5 - 10 minutes. Re-cut the stems under this water.

In this thread they discuss the use of chlorine and Physan as a disinfecting agent;
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=219683

2nd edit;

Well my attempts with introduced beneficial mychorrizae and bacteria began with some of the healthiest rooted clones yet, but it ended with a pitiful mushy whimper. I'm running a batch with chlorine bleach now.

 

[FreezerBoy]

My aerocloners worked great until they didn't.

Perfection followed by immediate catastrophic failure is what aero cloners do. Generally from failure to field strip and sterilize the system between grows. Many report the use of EWC teas as helping to prevent said failures.

 

[hydr1]

Temps of 75-80? In the ez cloner?

I don ever get slime, or mush or anything. I'm just trying to get roots faster.
My roots come after 14-20 days. 100%
I sent a pm asking to see methods used after seeing a pic of some explosive roots in the cyano thread.

Watered down Lucas formula, high temps and bleach for my cuts?
I've never ever used bleach or h202 and I don't want to start.
But I guess bleach is needed at 75-80 degrees and roots like warmth.

Also the air pump and stones...this I do not use but will try.

I'm running a 60 site ezcloner with a chiller. KLN, rapid start and tap.

 

[chase]

I get great results just useing rootone , & soil ,or peat pellets.It works great I dont see any need to complicate it , with one exception .My freind areoclones whole branches (kinda cool).

 

[FreezerBoy]

I get great results just useing rootone , & soil ,or peat pellets.It works great I dont see any need to complicate

It's not complicated to avoid methods which kill everything you have which your method will surely do. So will mine, so will UltraCurrent's. If there's one thing we know about cloning, what works for some, kills others dead.