Electro-Magnet?

[MrNebulized]

Anyone here try using an electro-magnet to create a magnetic field around a seed before germination? It is a portion of electro-culture. I was just wondering if anyone gave it a shot. I know some of you guys have planted by the moon. But why not create your own magnetic field?

I did try it and there was a significant difference in germination and thus far(1 week) in development. I did a side by side with 2 sets of 6 seeds(random seeds, admittedly seeds I found in good bud). I only got 8 plants out if them, so I ended up with 5 magnetic and 3 regular surviving. I put the seeds at the end of the North pole of the magnet, so if you are going to try something of this nature keep in mind that the positive and negative side will make a difference(yet to be seen). This may feminise the seeds or may push them towards males. I will have to do quite a bit more research before I can tell how it will effect the plants. They were put next there for only 24 hours. 240 hours is suppose to be the best(ran out of batteries).

After a week I have 4 inch plants(out of rock wool) and in one case a 4 inch plus root(out of the rock wool). They are about an inch and a half taller. Their roots are spreading quickly(thirsty little guys), and they already have 3 sets of their little leaves not counting the little seed leaves. Oh and the Magnetic seeds are developing a pair of leafs every other day.

I am running a Faux Aeroponic system(rock wool but the roots are already way through the 2 inch rock wool, after that they are just sprayed with 1/5 strength Earth Juice nutrients.

Just wondering if anyone else has tried this or if I am a pioneer(at least to Jesus Leaf Electro-Magnetic Culture). Or if I am crazy and it was just coincidence.

Mr Nebulized

 

[dubwise]

I've never heard of such a thing....keep us updated and document the progress please. What type of seeds are you trying this on?

 

[MrNebulized]

I've never heard of such a thing....keep us updated and document the progress please. What type of seeds are you trying this on?

I actually posted it in the wrong section, Jesus Leaf strikes again LOL. It is bud. There is a lot of information on Electro-culture just google it. I have been researching it for a while.

I will continue on with my research. It seems they are developing well, I'll have to give it more time to see what is going. They still seem to be growing a bit fast. This is suppose to not only accelerate growth, but help feminise and increase yield in the long run. Flowering period should increase as well.

I am looking for ways to improve the amount of energy the plants receive with out actually giving them more light. Though I'd say 400 watts is more then sufficient for 8 square feet.

But I will keep letting you know what is going on. So far they are developing a bit fast then the non-magnetic but only time will tell.

 

[MrNebulized]

Ok I accidentally lowered the PH a bit to much and they hit a stump. I had to clean out the reservoir and use fresh water to clean out the roots. Now they are back on track, and the root system for the magnetic seeds is ridiculously large. I did notice that the magnetic seed plants took the hit much harder, I think that their root mass is so large that they are just absorbing things to fast. My watering cycle needs to be sped up but I think that the reservoir is getting to warm to do so. I will need to stick a float switch in and use it as waste and create a side reservoir so that I can have a larger reservoir hopefully keeping things cooler.

The leaf mass is starting to accelerate quite a bit. The root mass for the magnetic seeds is ridiculous compared to the non-magnetic seeds. I will try and post a pic for you dubwise but these roots are ridiculous in comparison. The roots on the non-magnetic are definitely taking off but not like the others, the root mass on the magnetic are in one case 10 inches and still have mass.

The magnetic ones are also starting to branch out at all the nodes. They are becoming very bushy. They are sprouting a set of 6 leaves a day. Not bad considering 2 days ago their leaves were droopy and hit a wall growing. I am planning on lowering the PH another .5 today so we will see what happens with these plants. It is at 6.7 but 5.8 would be ideal in my system. The PPM is 440, going to move it up to 550 next week.

Well Dub since your the only one following I will see if I can post the pics for you by the end of the day.

 

[MrNebulized]

Here are a few pics. These first ones are magnetic. There is a pic of the collection. Then a couple pics of root masses with a couple plants. They are ridiculous.

 

[MrNebulized]

Here are some non-magnetic plant. Pics talk about a huge difference in root mass. One of them is taking off. This is all three of the non-magnetic plants.

There are more pics if you'd like.

 

[MrNebulized]

Sorry the pics didn't upload for some reason.

 

[MrNebulized]

Shoot actually the 1924 pic is a magnetic plant. Here is the third non-magnetic plant. Huge difference.

 

[MrNebulized]

A month later

A month later

Alright guys, the difference is more then obvious at this point. The magnetic ones need way more nutrients. The magnetic are all about 7 in tall and 10 in in diameter. The tallest non magnetic is a good looking plant though, it is about 7 inches as well. The shortest magnetic is 5 inches but it is about a 12 in diameter looks like a bonsai tree, the nodes are way long but the height small. Kind of looks like someone pinched off the top.

This is 32 days after germination. The non-magnetic barely have the node branches where as the magnetic have them coming from everywhere.

Another thing that should be kept in mind is this is my first time growing in 4+ years, so if they started out slow it would be my fault, still a side by side comparison where they both get the same nutrients and get the same light. Is a solid experiment, they both got the same amount of love.

The magnetic plants are bushes, it is ridiculous. The leaves are huge, on one they are as big as my sisters hand(full grown adult), she doesn't have big hands but that ain't bad for a 7 inch plant. There is also an extra inch below the neoprene puck above the rockwool. The height is a couple inches seems minuscule, but the leaf mass is a huge difference. By the time the 45 days rolls around i will put them into flower, we should see a difference by the time.

There looks to be one male amongst the magnetic plants, tomorrow I should know whether it is a male for sures, there is some small development there. Two of the plants have shown to be females. The other two have female characteristics but we shall see. Two of the non-magnetic are females and the third is yet to be seen, but it does look like the other smaller non-magnetic.

 

[MrNebulized]

Is anyone following this thread, should I post some pics or should I let it die?

 

[cutlassracer]

Dont let it die man!!! Im pullin up a chair and following to the end if you decide to ride it out. Any details on the electro-magnet?

 

[MrNebulized]

Dont let it die man!!! Im pullin up a chair and following to the end if you decide to ride it out. Any details on the electro-magnet?

Sweet another scientist. I actually just used the old science fair electric magnet. Tightly wrap a wire a round a metal nail(5 inches), then connect one side to the positive and one side to the negative. I had to replace the battery 4 times for a 24 hour result. The batteries will get hot so keep that in mind. Then you stick ONE of the ends with the seeds touching(it has to be with in the magnetic field. There is a north pole(positive side) and south pole(negative side). I just used the right hand rule(on WIKI) to figure out which side was positive and which side is negative.

Here are some pics for you. I am sure that you will see a tiny difference(sarcasm). I went on vacation, had to have my partner watch them came back to some bushes, the other photos were the day before vacation.

Hope you enjoy. I'll put up a few more.

 

[MrNebulized]

There is a couple pics of each group. As well as one shot of the male, one of the good looking non-magnetic. One of the bonsai looking one(not a good pic, but it is a jungle in that area hard to get to, in the group pics it is the one furthest to the back. And a couple of pics of small the non magnetic plants.

All 3 of the non magnetic are females, YAY!

NOTE: There are a total of 10 plants. But 2 are clones. I also had to move them around a bit before vacation, I have certain spots that happen to spray water a bit better so I had to move the clones to a better spray area. All the other plant roots were already touching the tray, so they were getting their nutes regardless. So if the pics don't correspond with the other ones you now know why.

Appreciate any feedback! I have been posting about this for only 28 days! That is a total of 35 days including germ, not bad I'd say!

 

[smokesalot420]

I am following this thread, I like experiments too! Keep up updated plz!

 

[MrNebulized]

I moved up the light a little so they stretched some, but they are still bushy little plants. A couple of things I noticed, these plants hate the PH lower then 6.2.

Earth Juice is the Nutes I am using(still had them), they make for lush plants and tasty buds, but they grow SLOOOWWW, compared to what they could. The PH also drops off every day to 5.9, so I balance daily sometimes twice.

I will be switching to DM gold for my bloom cycle. They will also be put into a full aerosol aeroponic system in a week or so.

These are not commercial seeds either, they are seeds that I found through out my smoke time. I don't know the strains. So the quality of these seeds are low, so I guess you get what you get. I will try this experiment again with better nutes, better seeds, and a better aeroponic system. I think I will see even better results if I have the system dialed in, which this being my first grow is obviously not.

I think I can conclusively say that the magnet made a huge difference. So I think with a better set up things will be far more productive, especially since I will understand things so much better. I will be able to give out a yield percentage difference at the end though. In previous experiments it pushed up crop around 40%. Which at this point looks very easily accomplished.



Next week I will also be adding sonic bloom, a music and foliar spray combination, another form of Electro culture. Liquid light and penetrator as well. LOL This is sounding like a scarier and scarier combination.

Wow! This system is going to look real rowdy by the time I am done.

I kind of made a pound challenge for my self(in a 2 X 4 closet). I don't know if it is possible, but with everything going on I figure after about 3 grows I should net quite a bit. CO2 will be added. I am realizing how crazy I am each and every day LOL. Some people use soil, some go hydro, I go aero, add nutes, and add in some electro culture. Talk about maximizing your growth space. This should also speed up growth. You can probably only stimulate so much before it goes over kill, but it would be interesting to see if you can get a plant growing 5-6 inches a day. Could you imagine in 10 days going by and your plants are 60 inches tall? That would be awesome.

Looking to stimulate through low current electricity as well, but that is a whole other can of worms.

 

[Mr.Jones]

hey im very interrested man!
why dont you explain how you set up your magnets and stuff??

 

[MrNebulized]

Mr Jones,
I actually just went online and looked for a cheap science fair style electro magnet.

Making a Magnet
How do I make an electromagnet?

There are tons of websites out there, that explain how to do it.

Basically you get a nail around 5 inches or more long. Then you wrap a wire tightly around it with enough wire hanging off to attach one side of the wire to the positive side and one side to the negative side. It is difficult to get it perfectly attached, tape is a obvious necessity, it takes some fiddling. The hardest part is making sure they stay attached, sometimes when your fingers let off the pressure the wires detach. You want to test the magnet, a paper clip or a piece of an old metal hanger(just snip off the tip with some wire cutters). Just a small piece of metal, it must be metal to make sure it works.

THE BATTERY WILL GET WARM!

North Pole/South Pole
Ok now on to the South Pole(negative side) and North Pole(positive side). One side of the magnetic nail(now it is a magnet until the battery runs out) will be the north pole and the other the south pole. A British physicist named Zachariah William Cole gave us the right hand rule. It simplifies things incredibly.

Right hand rule
There are pics on the wiki site. They help as much or more the reading it.

Copied and pasted:

Direction associated with a rotation
Main article: right hand grip rule
Vector assigned to a rotation.

A different form of the right-hand rule is used in situations where a vector must be assigned to the rotation of a body, a magnetic field or a fluid.[4] Alternatively, when a rotation is specified by a vector, and it is necessary to understand the way in which the rotation occurs, the right-hand rule is applicable.

In this form, the fingers of the right hand are curled to match the curvature and direction of the motion or the magnetic field. The thumb indicates the direction of the vector.

Now you have to decide which side of the magnet you'd like to use, the North pole or the South pole.

EDIT: It was the south pole(negative side) that I used. Here is what I read to decide on using the North pole of the magnet. There is a lot of info to go through. I chose the North pole of the magnet. This helped the above ground plants was my understanding.

Magnetic Electro-Culture

Magnetism
Plant breeder Alberto Pirovano published some 50 papers on inherited changes in plants induced by treatment with low frequency or constant magnetic fields.

Albert R. Davis received U.S. Patent #3,030,590 for his system of gardening with magnetism. Davis said:

"We found... that treating above ground seeds with the South Pole of a magnet [1,500-2,500 gauss] increases the germination and growth, and the leaves of these vegetables are larger.

"If you treat seeds [of]... beets, potatoes, carrots or turnips, you will produce a better result by using the North Pole of the magnet."

The magnetic influence also softens the surface tension of water, which then is more readily absorbed by the seeds and plants. U.J. Pittman conducted extensive field experiments with these results:

"Earth's magnetism can effect the direction of root growth of some plants, and also the growth rate of some seedlings... The roots of some plants [winter and spring wheat, and wild oats] normally align themselves in a N-S plane approximately parallel to the horizontal face of Earth's magnetic field... Winter wheat seeded in rows running at right angles to the magnetic N often out-yield wheat seeded in other direction by 3-4 bushels/acre because the roots grow in a N-S direction and utilize nutrients in the inter-row areas more extensively.

"Seeds of some varieties of wheat, barley, flax, and rye were found to germinate faster and grow more during their seedling stages when their long axes and embryo ends are pointed toward the N magnetic pole than when they are pointed in any other direction.

"Many seeds germinate and grow about two times faster if they are exposed to the N pole of an artificial field before they are planted than they are not so treated --- wheat seed in particular grows about 5 times as much in the first 48 hours as unexposed seed.

"In some species the enhanced growth rate persists through to maturity. Green snap beans thus mature more uniformly and yield more than those from untreated seed planted randomly.

"The effects of magnetic treatment before germination appear to remain active within some seeds for at least 18 months after application. The magnetic intensity required to give maximum response appears to be between 0.5 and 100 Oersted when applied for 240 hours. For some unknown reason a greater growth response occurs if the seeds are subjected to magnetism for 48, 144, 240, or 336 hours than if exposed for intermediate periods. An exposure for 240 hours produces maximum responses in most seeds..."(21)

Pittman discovered that the sexual determination of monoecious plants such as corn and cucumbers also is affected by the geomagnetic field:

"If the embryo radical of such plants is oriented toward the North, a greater number of female flowers is formed than in the case of seeds oriented toward the South. Since cucumber fruits are produced from the female flower, Northward orientation of the seed radicals will lead, of course, to greater yield per plant."

In general, Northward orientation of the embryonic radical (particularly of corn) promotes masculinity. The response of seeds when oriented toward the geomagnetic poles depends on the left- or right-handedness of the seed and the sexual characteristics of the plant type. When oriented with the tip of the embryo radical towards the S geomagnetic pole, l-rotary seeds demonstrate higher rates of growth, respiration, and enzymatic activity, and up to 50% greater yields. D-rotary seeds respond with up to 50% enhanced growth rates and yields when their embryo tips are pointed at the N pole.

When conifer seeds are grown with their embryo radicals oriented S, they germinate 4-5 days earlier than seeds oriented toward the N pole. Lunar phases also have a profound effect on the germination of conifers. They will sprout much faster when their embryo radicals are oriented S during a full moon, than they will if germinated during the new moon.

If there is any doubt about the directivity or gender of seeds, positive results can be obtained in any case by treating seeds for 2 weeks in the magnetic null, the quiet region where the magnetic pull is balanced between N and S. This region is located by observing the patterns formed by iron powder scattered on a glass pane placed over the magnet.

Pittman also grew potatoes from excised, magnetically treated eyes. The field-grown crop yielded 17% more marketable tubers that weighed 38.5% more than those grown from untreated eyes! Pittman concluded:

"Pre-germination magnetic treatment of the eye may have effected a change in the metabolic process in the bud that eventually promoted earlier and greater tuber initiation. Tubers initiated early would have had more time to develop size than those initiated later."

The exposure of seeds to magnetic fields also increases the percentage of germination of apricot and apple seeds, increases the yields of snap beans, accelerates the growth of legume and cereal seedlings, and the rate of tomato ripening.

P.W. Ssawsotin reported that a low intensity (60 Oe) field may affect some biological processes as much as high intensity (1,600 Oe) magnets. Some of the effective "windows" are quite narrow. Strevoka, et al., found that a field strength of 60 Oe increased the growth rate of beans, cucumbers, lupines, maize and rye, but the rye was unaffected by a 100 Oe field. The greatest results were obtained at the temperatures which are optimal for the growth of each type of plant. (22)

Other Russian researchers found that wheat and barley seeds pre-magnetized (2,000 Oe) for 30 minutes with the major axis aligned with the magnetic flux will germinate much more vigorously than control seeds. Germination actually is retarded when seeds are aligned against the flux. Corn seeds respond differently according to their left (l-) or right (d-) orientation or symmetry (s) when treated by a constant magnetic field (7 kOe) for 15 minutes. L-seeds are most responsive, showing increased potassium and water uptake and free amino acids 24 hours after treatment. The effect on l-seeds is strongest when the water-swollen embryo is oriented towards the N magnetic pole. Lazarenko and Gorbatovskaya also reported other strange effects:

"Even more curious results were yielded by experiments in which seeds were heated in a test tube left for 30 minutes in boiling water... Compared to the control seeds, the seeds heated (in the dry state described above) and exposed to the magnetic field exhibited greater sprouting activity..."

Other experiments have shown that treatment of soil with magnetized water and/or low-frequency current (0.5 or 5 A) activates soil potassium and phosphorus, thereby increasing their bioavailability. (23, 24)

A.V. Krylov also demonstrated magnetotropic phenomena in plants:

"Germination of seeds in a constant magnetic field accelerated growth of the shoots and rootlets and development of the plant, while an increase in its positive sign promoted aging, disease and death. Polarity also plays a role in plant immunity. Seedlings with their rootlets turned toward the N pole were thickly infested by parasites and molds, and the resistance of these seedlings was obviously depressed. The appearance of seedlings facing the S pole (with all other conditions the same) was completely different."

In a 1,500 Oe field, the largest number of germinating seeds was found after an exposure of 10-30 and 300 minutes. Other gains were found at 2,800 Oe. If the magnetic field is too intense, germination can be retarded. Strevoka reported a contrary finding: a non-homogenous 12,000 Oe field suppresses the germination of beans up to 40%.(25)

DeLand's Frost Guard ---The "Frost Guard Tower" developed by John DeLand in the 1940s used magnetism to replace obnoxious smudge pots. He obtained high yields from orange trees formerly considered to be too old to be productive. The DeLand system can protect one acre of trees from frost, but it is ineffective for small plants.

George van Tassel gave this description of the device:

"The DeLand Frost Guard Tower is about 32 feet high. It is composed of three 12-ft lengths of standard galvanized steel pipe. The lowest section is 2-inch pipe, set 3 ft deep in concrete. On top of this a 12-ft section of 1.5 inch pipe is screwed on by means of a reducer. Above this the top section of 12-foot pipe, 1-inch in diameter, is screwed on by means of a reducer. Resting horizontally atop each reducer and at the mast head is a 1-ft diameter disk of waterproof, 3/4-inch plywood. Near the outer diameter of each plywood disk or collar is drilled 7 holes. These holes are parallel to the center mast and are equally spaced around the diameter, 51-1/2 degrees apart.

"Beginning at the top of the mast, with an extension of 6 or 7 inches parallel to the ground, #10 gauge bare copper wires are run down through the concrete foundation's outer edge. From there they branch out, in 18-inch deep trenches, to a distance of not more than 144 ft from the mast's center. At this point, each wire is wrapped several times around an Alnico-V permanent magnet. The end of each wire is brought above ground and pointed back toward its other end on top of the tower. The magnet is given a coat of plastic to protect it from rust and to hold the windings in place.

"The trenches and magnets are covered with earth. The 18-inch depth is to protect the wires from cultivation, they must remain uncut if the system is to function. One wire on the tower, and hence in the earth, must point toward magnetic North. The placing of this first magnet must be done very accurately, and the others should be accurately placed.

"The magnet sets are inclined toward the mast at 34 degrees to the surface of the ground. Pointing the buried bar magnets toward the North magnetic pole, but also setting them so they point or tilt toward the central mast gives a skew to the flux or flow of energy.

"This system has protected groves when temperatures have fallen to as low as 20o F. The system does not alter the air temperature in the grove. Rather, it seems to effect a condition in the plants themselves, so that lower temperatures will not induce freezing. Fruit laying on the ground will freeze." (26-28)

Magnetizing the Seed
In order for you to make sure that the magnet is still working I recommend that you over hang the side you are not using over the edge of something, 3 DVDs stacked did the trick for me. Then attach the small piece of metal to the side overhanging. This will let you know if the magnet is still working/when to change batteries.

I left it next to the magnet for ~24 hours, different intervals created different responses when previous people experimented, but it wasn't me that came up with that.

Place the seeds against the side(North/South) you plan on using. Do this for 24 hours. I'd like to do this for 240 hours, but I don't know if that is plausible, it would take like 30-40 batteries that would cost a lot.

That was a lot of info, but really it takes a whole 5 minutes to make the magnet and you have to change the battery every 6 hours or so. Even when the magnet is weak it is still creating a magnetic field.

A warning to you guys, these magnetic plants are pretty sensitive. They are effected quicker then the average plants due to their accelerated growth. So if your plant has problems, it will have problems faster, but when you correct the issue they also bounce back faster then the average plants. Droopy leaves(low PH) are solved in a 4 hours or so, which on my plants is 2 10 minute waterings. We all know stress makes plants males, that is why I suspect a few of them had a hard time. I had some issues with some guests at my house(had to shut the system off for 16 hours) so the plants had a bit of stress. When I dial things in correctly things will change, and we will have a better experiment.


WHOOOO! That was a long post, but you got about all the info I read when I decided to give it a shot. I was way interested in trying the Electrogenic Seed Treatment as well but there wasn't enough details to simulate that project.

 

[MrNebulized]

If you have a dialed in system, you shouldn't have to worry about the issues I had. This was my first grow in a long time so I had to deal with some relearning. You will love this if you know what your doing. I figure I should have this dialed in by next grow as things are already going fairly well. I made some newbie mistakes that will have to be remedied to see about using it to feminise seeds as well.

 

[Mr.Jones]

hey ... wanna do us all a favour? i think this is really interesting but the pictures arent like in some kind of order.
maybe you just can relink them and say: magnetic plant/non magnetic plant?
would be great because im kind of confused which plant is which!

... why do u use a battery - couldnt it just be some kind of plug in magnet?

im thinking about testing it myself and see how it works but im already in flower!? -still usefull then?

 

[MrNebulized]

hey ... wanna do us all a favour? i think this is really interesting but the pictures arent like in some kind of order.
maybe you just can relink them and say: magnetic plant/non magnetic plant?
would be great because im kind of confused which plant is which!

... why do u use a battery - couldnt it just be some kind of plug in magnet?

im thinking about testing it myself and see how it works but im already in flower!? -still usefull then?

The big plants are magnetic, the small ones not magnetic. In the links to the most recent ones the pictures have a corresponding names to the pics. In the previous pics there was one set that was magnetic and one that wasn't. The back three on the non magnetic plant pics are non magnetic. The very front one is a male magnetic (I think it is a male). On the magnetic pics all of them except the very front one is magnetic, that is a clone. In the earlier ones the magnetic pics were posted in one post and non magnetic pics posted in another post.

I used a battery because you need to know which is the north pole and which is the south pole of the magnet, each side should theoretically do different things to the seed(feminize/stimulate). If you buy just a electronic magnet you may not know which side is which.

This magnetic project treats seeds, so there is no way you could make use of this. You could do research on low current electricity to see if that works. Something I plan on doing in the next few grows. Low current electricity is known for helping with plant disease as well as stimulating growth.