Early Yellowing in Flower

[headiez247]

I am at day 31 flower in my 2,000 watt sea of green and over the past few days have seen a significant increase in leaves yellowing.

Even during this, bud formation continues at a very fast pace, and other then this yellowing the plants seem to be very happy.

A few weeks ago I had some PH flux which caused some lockout, had to flush. After this flush everything looked great until this yellowing started ahead of schedule.

So my diagnosis is: the big flush got rid of the N that it needed and now its craving some.

I foliar fed with a light dose of N via GH FloraMicro Hard Water on Friday but not sure what to do next because I know your not supposed to give it N this late in the game.

Any comments are appreciated.



FRIDAY:

SUNDAY:

TUESDAY

 

[Weedninja]

I gave my girls N too late into flower once. I had to glass jar cure my harvest 6 months before I could smoke it without gagging and it still didn't burn right. Now I just let 'em go gold if I have N issues.

Nice SOG you have going BTW and I can't post pics either.

 

[mexilandrace]

leave it alone and continue with the bloom ferts, I have seen plants almost white with nitrogen deficiency and they budded up just fine.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

leave it alone and continue with the bloom ferts, I have seen plants almost white with nitrogen deficiency and they budded up just fine.

exactly. the bloom ferts have a little nitro, and should help keep enough untill flush and chop. the recycled ffof has less nitro then new ffof also, after this round you could add some fresh sea-bird guan, i could be wrong but i think thats got the highest nitro content. dolomite lime too.

besids alot of thoes strains only have 2- 4 weeks before you start to flush right? the chemDD is a 75 day plant. mines at 72 right now. might want to find somthing for her... i know botanicares new line, 'organicare' has a nitrogen fert (6-0-0) nitrex i think, i could give you one of my samples.

 

[HempKat]

Well as you can tell by the response there's no one set answer and you have to look at the variables. Adding nitrogen late can affect the cure of your harvest but to really effect that you have to give too much. A good relatively safe way to boost nitrogen in flower is to simply add fish emulsion to your water at a rate of one tablespoon per gallon. It's rated as 5-1-1, it won't burn your plants at the proper rate and it's organic. Outdoors however it can attract animals and indoors it does have a bit of a smell.

Now where possible you want to avoid nitrogen in flower and promote phospherous and potassium. You do have to consider what is actually going on though. For instance if you were to have said everything was fine but the leaves are turning color sooner then expected. I would have likely said let them go, they're just using up more nitrogen or maybe some other evironmental issue is the problem, check your temps and humidity. However, in your case there was the addition of the ph imbalance requiring a flush. That flush changed things so in light of that, and just barely over half thru flower I'd say a mild shot of nitrogen is not only okay but adviseable. The plant depends on the leaves being green to photosynthisize. If they aren't green the plant has less energy with which to grow. At say 6 weeks into flower though then you might not want to because the bud is fairly well formed. All that is based on a 60 day flowering plant. As was pointed out, some take a bit longer. So whether you should or shouldn't is all relative to that. Keep in mind whatever you do yellowed leaves don't unyellow so if you add nitrogen don't expect the plant to become all pretty again. Mainly you'll be looking for new growth and/or no additional yellowing. Another thing to keep in mind is other things can cause yellowing, lack of light due to shading, over watering, not enough watering, your ph imbalance, being root bound and many other things, yellowing is a sign of a distressed leaf that the plant has drained and given up on.

Now in your case I'd say the ph imbalance/flushing is what you're seeing in those leaves. It's mainly the big fans which tend to be older and the first to go. They may have been slightly damaged and seemed okay but that damage essentially aged them sooner and so like Amy Winehose on crack they end up looking 60 at 25 Anyway if you look at the leaves closest in to the center of you buds they all have a nice dark healthy green appearance. Once those big fans are fully drained and fall off the bud shaded underneath will swell from the increased light. Some might even advise you to remove them regardless of yellowing. So really you're probably okay where you're at now so hold off on additional N unless you see yellowing spreading to now healthy growth. You seem to pretty much know what you're doing. In the future consider ways to avoid ph imbalances. Like adding dolomite lime to the soil mix for example.

 

[headiez247]

thanks for all the responses guys.

there's always 2 paths to take, and this is why I turn to others to get outside opinions.

The consensus seems to be that if the yellowing continues at a rapid pace, then we will add some N.

I think the smart thing to do would be to compare pics so tonight at lights out I'll take another one and we'll take a look at the progression

 

[headiez247]

Took a pic last night and the yellowing was certainly progressing on other plants, though slowly, so I decided to give it a small dose of Nitrex (6-0-0) along with the flower nutes

http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemMatrix.asp?GroupCode=NOOCNX&MatrixType=1


A watering for all my plants takes 20 gallons, I mixed in 15 ml of that as a one time N boost- we will see how that works.

All other growth continues at a very nice pace.

EDIT: Updated the pics at the top to show the progression

 

[mark6699331]

looks fine to me- a little overwatered maybe- what's the soil mix- i've found that some mixes like foxfarm are mostly wood (sawdust). I used to have that problem at about day 35 cause the wood starts to decompose and compost. Nitrogen is needed to do this and the closest place is from the fan leaves through reverse osmosis.

Otherwise i'd leave alone they seem to be finishing up nice.
m

 

[B.C.]

High Mark, long time no see! Have ya made some those Train Wreck beans yet? Sorry man I don't agree with ya about the soil. I've used FF soil for a long time, I've never seen sawdust ( or wood chunks ) in it? If there were wood in the soil, I do agree N would be robbed from yer plant, but -only- from what's in the soil, not from the plant itself. It would compete for it....... Headiez, I think ya did the right thing, there's nothin wrong with addin a lil N as long as it's off set by the flower nutes. I think yer right from the start, the flush washed some of the N outa the soil. I'm not sure if ya do it already er not, but continueing with grow nutes into the first week and a half and tapering it off by the end of the second week ( threw the stretch ) of fower will help curb this too..... They'll be fine tho. Good luck and take care... BC

 

[HempKat]

Took a pic last night and the yellowing was certainly progressing on other plants, though slowly, so I decided to give it a small dose of Nitrex (6-0-0) along with the flower nutes

http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemMatrix.asp?GroupCode=NOOCNX&MatrixType=1


A watering for all my plants takes 20 gallons, I mixed in 15 ml of that as a one time N boost- we will see how that works.

All other growth continues at a very nice pace.

EDIT: Updated the pics at the top to show the progression

I don't know, 3 teaspoons to 20 gallons seems pretty weak. I'm not familiar with what you're using but fish emulsion which has a similar NPK you give at the rate of 1 tablespoon per gallon of water. Since you've done it don't worry about it but if the normal application rate of that stuff is around one tablespoon per gallon you can probably just follow the directions. Organics are somewhat slow acting and as such are easier on plants.

Ultimately though, I have to agree with the last two posters. It really doesn't look that bad and even if the yellowing continues the buds should still turn out okay.

I keep looking at the latest pics and I'm reminded of a grow where I had 4 of this one strain. They were all clones and one of the four had gotten start two weeks later then the others. When I got to flower they were in 3 gallon pots and seem to be far from rootbound. I figured I could just leave them in the 3 gallon pots based on noticing how when I transplant the day I go to 12/12 very little of the new soil ever seems to get used. I figured I had enough room to get thru stretch and be okay. Well they weren't except for the one that was two weeks behind, since it had two weeks less to fill up it's pot it made it thru flower fine. I tried adding N which helped some but still the leaves kept yellowing and dropping early at about the same point you're at. I checked after harvest to confirm they were root bound but I knew by how it was also needed frequent waterings. Anyway is there any chance the pots are root bound?

 

[chiliwalt]

~

~

Don't trip...

~chili

 

[headiez247]

I don't know, 3 teaspoons to 20 gallons seems pretty weak. I'm not familiar with what you're using but fish emulsion which has a similar NPK you give at the rate of 1 tablespoon per gallon of water. Since you've done it don't worry about it but if the normal application rate of that stuff is around one tablespoon per gallon you can probably just follow the directions. Organics are somewhat slow acting and as such are easier on plants.

Ultimately though, I have to agree with the last two posters. It really doesn't look that bad and even if the yellowing continues the buds should still turn out okay.

I keep looking at the latest pics and I'm reminded of a grow where I had 4 of this one strain. They were all clones and one of the four had gotten start two weeks later then the others. When I got to flower they were in 3 gallon pots and seem to be far from rootbound. I figured I could just leave them in the 3 gallon pots based on noticing how when I transplant the day I go to 12/12 very little of the new soil ever seems to get used. I figured I had enough room to get thru stretch and be okay. Well they weren't except for the one that was two weeks behind, since it had two weeks less to fill up it's pot it made it thru flower fine. I tried adding N which helped some but still the leaves kept yellowing and dropping early at about the same point you're at. I checked after harvest to confirm they were root bound but I knew by how it was also needed frequent waterings. Anyway is there any chance the pots are root bound?

Yes, a distinct possibility. They are growin like craaazy (could have to cut the number of plants in half to be able to fit 5 gal containers in there)

Ya I know it was a light dose I just didn't want to overdo it. Hope it was enough.

 

[maryj315]

Well just my 2 cents but despite the problem still a nice looking grow.

 

[MapleMonk]

indeed nice plants ! in the past i had some trouble with early yellowing becouse of a wrong ph (arround 8) in my water ... GG@all

 

[HempKat]

Yes, a distinct possibility. They are growin like craaazy (could have to cut the number of plants in half to be able to fit 5 gal containers in there)

Ya I know it was a light dose I just didn't want to overdo it. Hope it was enough.

Well if they are root bound then even a strong dose of nitrogen wouldn't do much. Root bound isn't totally bad, the key of course is staying on top of waterings (which is usually daily for root bound plants). Of course if you water daily you have to look at your feeding schedule too. Typically, with what I use, in flower I feedfor two consecutive watering and then every third watering is just water. The just water watering is to reduce the risk of nutrient deposits left in the soil from building up to toxic levels, it's almost like a mini flush. Anyway what I'm getting at is that cycle is based on the plants needing 2-3 days to use up the previous watering. If I used that cycle when watering daily it would do the opposite unless I reduced the concentration of nutrients to offset the frequency. That would be a hassle to have to daily adjust things though so I'd likely switch to a water - water - water/feed cycle rather then water/feed - water/feed - water cycle.

The simple solution is this though, at least in my opinion and maybe I've already said this, I know I talked about it somewhere recently. Go more traditional SOG. What you have there is a SOG of sorts but bigger. What I mean is this. I'm getting ready to do a more traditional SOG and what I mean by traditional is lots of plants that are essentially colas on sticks. In a 2' x 4' space on a 2' x 4' table I will grow 50 clones of the same plant in homemade pots that are about 1 quart capacity. This space I can easily cover with a 1000W HID. Last grow done at the same time of year took me 4 months counting veg time, I used two 1000W lights grew 16 plants similar in size to yours and yielded about one pound dried/cured bud. I finished in 5 gallon pots so I used 80 gallons of soil and the fertalizers and everything that goes into watering feeding that much soil for 4 months. Doing it the traditional SOG way I'll be working from clones. I've already cloned up several mothers and will soon take actually more then 50 clones so I'll be sure to have 50 rooted clones all starting at roughly the same time. As each show roots they'll go into the little more then a quart container that will be it's home until harvest. Once I have all 50 in place I'll give them no more then a week to adjust to that environment and then throw them right into 12/12, they'll all stretch to 12" or so colas with maybe an extra side bud or two on a few plants because they'll all have optimal light exposure due to such a confined uniform profile and even canopy. I'll end up using only 12 and one half gallons of soil instead of 80 gallons and a proportionately lower amount of nutrients (about one sixth as much) and here's the best part, I'll yield more and it'll all be really really nice rather then some really nice colas and a bunch of average buds. It'll be easier to trim and if all that weren't enough it'll be done in half the time if you don't count that time it takes to get the clones to show roots.

To recap that's less cost to run, less resources needed, easier to run, better overall quality and better yield in less time. Sounds pretty sweet to me.

Oh and how that relates to this, since you start from clones the plant is mature the day it's established. The reason for veg time is to either add size or allow a seedling to mature. Once you go to flower you get some additional root developement for the first 2 to 3 weeks aka the stretch phase and then the plant pretty much works with what it has. So if you have a small container when you veg less a plant can grow without becoming root bound during flower and/or needing a transplant. You said you can't use 5 gallon pots due to space restrictions, fine don't use them, but if you have to use smaller pots don't let them become root bound. Remember, you're god when you grow indoors. You control the day and night, the winds, the rains, the temps, the humidity, the earth, the nutrients in the earth, etc. You get to decide when things happen. :smile:

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

I don't know, 3 teaspoons to 20 gallons seems pretty weak. I'm not familiar with what you're using but fish emulsion which has a similar NPK you give at the rate of 1 tablespoon per gallon of water. Since you've done it don't worry about it but if the normal application rate of that stuff is around one tablespoon per gallon you can probably just follow the directions. Organics are somewhat slow acting and as such are easier on plants.

Ultimately though, I have to agree with the last two posters. It really doesn't look that bad and even if the yellowing continues the buds should still turn out okay.

I keep looking at the latest pics and I'm reminded of a grow where I had 4 of this one strain. They were all clones and one of the four had gotten start two weeks later then the others. When I got to flower they were in 3 gallon pots and seem to be far from rootbound. I figured I could just leave them in the 3 gallon pots based on noticing how when I transplant the day I go to 12/12 very little of the new soil ever seems to get used. I figured I had enough room to get thru stretch and be okay. Well they weren't except for the one that was two weeks behind, since it had two weeks less to fill up it's pot it made it thru flower fine. I tried adding N which helped some but still the leaves kept yellowing and dropping early at about the same point you're at. I checked after harvest to confirm they were root bound but I knew by how it was also needed frequent waterings. Anyway is there any chance the pots are root bound?

your assuming he plants on cutting things down right at 8 weeks.
hes also running a few long-running strains, so with a 70 day chop estimation i believe a LITTLE bit of nitrogen is prudent, dont want the plant running out of building blocks just before the building is done right?
although they do look pritty darn good.

might be some details missing from the story here, headiez247, didnt you flush the plants just before this happened???

really they do look good though.

 

[headiez247]

Maybe I was a little harsh on the root bound issue because I'm still only having to water every 3 days or so, which would indicate I'm probably not root bound (at least not yet lol).

In terms of smaller, single cola, more to true SOG, its funny you say that because it was our original plan. But as you said, 50 plants under 1k, and we have 2k, so 100 + moms= over our personal 99 plant rule plus we are going to be going bigger soon. Perhaps the solution is to just to meet halfway in terms of amount of veg time

DH- ya I explained at the top about the flush and how it happened right after.


Growth continues at a very nice pace

thanks for all the comments

 

[mexilandrace]

feed the plant and water it right and there is zero logical reason rootbound would matter.

Maybe if you have a really dense soil and the roots compress it to the point of anaerobic, but I have found its pretty much not an issue.

 

[HempKat]

Maybe I was a little harsh on the root bound issue because I'm still only having to water every 3 days or so, which would indicate I'm probably not root bound (at least not yet lol).

In terms of smaller, single cola, more to true SOG, its funny you say that because it was our original plan. But as you said, 50 plants under 1k, and we have 2k, so 100 + moms= over our personal 99 plant rule plus we are going to be going bigger soon. Perhaps the solution is to just to meet halfway in terms of amount of veg time

DH- ya I explained at the top about the flush and how it happened right after.


Growth continues at a very nice pace

thanks for all the comments

Yeah it doesn't sound root bound if you're watering every three days. So since we seemed to have ruled that out then were back to the likely scenario that the flush did what it was supposed which led to a deficiency. Hey just cause you have two lights doesn't mean you have to use them both. I have two 1000W lights but I'm only going to use one on my SOG. I'm not trying to sell you on the SOG idea per se. Having tried different things though I think it holds lots of promise both for increasing yields and reducing operating costs.

 

[HempKat]

your assuming he plants on cutting things down right at 8 weeks.
hes also running a few long-running strains, so with a 70 day chop estimation i believe a LITTLE bit of nitrogen is prudent, dont want the plant running out of building blocks just before the building is done right?
although they do look pritty darn good.

might be some details missing from the story here, headiez247, didnt you flush the plants just before this happened???

really they do look good though.

You're misunderstanding what I said because you didn't read everything. I'm one of the ones telling him that it's okay to give nitrogen in flower if the plants need it. In fact if you read what you quoted again I was suggesting maybe he didn't give enough of what he gave them to boost the N. I also don't see where you get that I'm assuming he's going to chop at 8 weeks. I think the only references to times I've made were when I was talking about my own experiences as examples.