DWC vs. Organic Coco...who will win?

[shibbysurfrider]

So here I go again on a new grow journal. After utterly failing as a super noob with organics, I'd like to give them another go.
I want to compare yield/taste/growth etc... I'm mostly concerned with taste.

Strain is Lemon Kush: Grows sativa/skunk like leaves. Not much 'Kush' look to the plant. I personally think this is a Lemon Skunk re-labelled with 'kush' in good ol' trendy California fashion. Bloom time is 8 weeks just like DNA's Lemon Skunk and the leaves look alike. Supposedly Lemon Kush is 50/50 Indica/Sativa just like DNA's Lemon Skunk... Further supports my theory.

I am running 2 Lemon Kush in a DWC using:
Advanced Nutrients Sensi A&B
Dutch Master Zone
CalMag+
GH pH
AN Big Bud

pH:5.5-5.7
ppm: about 500 about to up to 600

I am also running 2 Lemon Kush in 100% coco in smart pots using my organic line-up:
Advanced Nutrients Mother Earth Super Tea
Roots Organics Trinity Catalyst
Roots Organics Oregonism XL
Humboldt Roots
Advanced Nutrients Nirvana
CalMag+
Hygrozyme
Earth Juice Natural pH

pH:5.8-6.0
ppm: N/A with organics... sorry

I learned a LOT on my frist grow (about 4 weeks til harvest) so I decided to LST my plants right away. I have tied down each plant about 4-6 times in the last two weeks. I have been able to keep them pretty even and there are quite a few tops.

Tonight I'm going to put them in my flower cab along with 2 Grape Apes that are also in coco smart pots. I pulled another noob mistake and obtained too many cloes bc they brought me free ones with my order. I'm going to have to keep them in 1 gallon smart pots throughout bloom. I am crossing my fingers that the smart pots will not allow my plants to get root bound....

And here's the pix... Theres 10 plants in that little 2'x4'x5ft veg tent under a 4 bulb 48'' T5 HO fixture with 6500K bulbs with a total of 20,000 lumens. I keep it about 8-10'' away from the tops b/c last grow I kept burning my plants trying to get it 6'' away. This grow is going MUCH faster than my last attempt.

 

[shibbysurfrider]

1st Picture: Foreground and behind it are my 2 Grape Ape. Fat Indica/Skunk Leaves. On the right are 2 Cotton Candy Kush in CoCo Smart pots.

2nd picture: The left 2 are my DWC Lemon Kush and the right 2 are my coco Lemon Kush. This one looks like it's going to stretch. I plan on using a lot of string in the first couple weeks of flower.

3rd picture: These two are my cotton candy Kush. Not very happy with these ones in the coco. These have been the pickiest strain of them all. Started giving me 3 fingered leaves almost as soon as I put the clones in coco. Then she stretched So I tied down and all their nodes stretched too. They're just starting to give me 5 finger leaves. I'm going to hold out flowering them til they've stabilized.

4th picture: These are my cotton Canky kush in DWC. They are doing great. Node spacing is still far like the coco plants, but the leaves are the giant kush leaves we all love. The one in the foreground took a while to start growing. I hope this strain will reward me in the end.

5th picture: This is my entire veg tent with all 10 of my clones. kind of crowded in there. That's why I've decided to clear some space in my flower tent and see how the lemon kush and grape ape do. I'll wait on the cotton Candy kush b/c i dont have the room in my flower tent and i'm not pleased with the ones in coco yet.

 

[WPA]

Nice strains you have in there. I have two plants with skunk #1 genetics in them, and they both smell skunky, cant wait to see the buds!

I had some weird one fingered leaves, pretty big ones! My friend laughed and asked when did i make the switch to cabbage

 

[shibbysurfrider]

Hey WPA thanks for stopping by!!! I got 3 then 1 fingered leaves on all my Vanilla Kush and Super Lemon haze... I was told it was due to environmental stress. It happened right after I switched from organics to synthetics in my DWC. My Grapefruit didn't seem to mind but my VK and SLH just freaked for 3 weeks. Didn't even bud, just stretched a bunch. I hope your buds are developing. I just chopped 3 SLH and 4 VK to make room for these babies. I saved all the little under developed buds and I also am going to try and re veg a mom of each in coco.

good luck on your grow and hope you get ride of those ugly one finger leaves. It's like your plants flipping you off. It's pissed at something....

 

[shibbysurfrider]

Here are some pix of my newly arranged flower cab. It's a 4x4x6.5'. I couldnt find a way to make my carbon scrupper sturdy enough to be hung... So on the floor it is. Temps are currently at 75 with the A/C running and my ballast at 1000w. I Didn't have enough water to do a nute change for my DWC Lemon Kush tonight... stupid counter-top RO filter. Takes 30min+ to give me a gallon... Oh the joys of condos....

I'm going to give grow Nutes for the 1st week of flower to help with the stretch. I plan on tying everything down anyways.

1st picture: my flower cab. its already going to be full again once I get my 2 DWC lemon kush in there... I gotta stop growing so many plants... I just want to try every strain...

2nd picture: my 2 lemon kush in front and 2 grape ape in back. They look so tiny compared to the 3ft tall grapefruits I have. I DO NOT want plants that tall again. So I'm going to stay on top of the stretch and tie things down to keep it spread out even.

 

[shibbysurfrider]

Today I was finally able to get my 2 DWC Lemon Kush in my flowering tent today. They are 2 days behind the coco lemon kush but they are twice as big.
All my coco plants have been showing yellow new growth so i flushed and then watered each plant 1 gallon of RO water with:
5mL CalMag+
1mL Humboldt Roots
16mL Advanced Nutrients Mother Earth Super Tea Grow
10mL Roots Organics Trinity Catalyst
and I apped 1/2tsp of epsom salt in case my yellow was due to low sulfur
I pHed the water to 5.8 and watered.
My DWC plants I have got dialed this grow. They are really exploding on me. My coco plants are proving a challenge. Especially the Cotton Candy Kush. My grape Ape barely show any yellow and the Lemon Kush seem to be recovering as I type.

1st picture: This is my flower tent. The 2 DWC Lemon Kush are on the left and the 2 coco LK are in front and the 2 coco Grape Ape are behind. The Giant plants in the back are 4 Grapefruit. Perpetual Grows rock!

2nd-4th picture: random grapefruit budding pictures. this strain went trhough a lot and is still rewarding me. Gotta love them. Smell like strawberry soda. I'm crossing my fingers for atleast 1OZ per plant.

5th-6th picture: Veg tent. Cotton Candy Kush going. Note how well the 2 in DWC are doing vs. the 2 in coco. I just tied down the coco so they look even worse than usual.

7th Picture: a re-vegging Vanilla Kush and Super Lemon Haze from my first round where my plants got too big. Hoping to be able to take clones in 4 weeks or so

 

[PuReKnOwLeDgE]

DWC no contest, I will race any system with my rdwc

 

[shibbysurfrider]

yea man. Even tho my coco slack is due to a deficiency on my part, the two DWC plants are as big as the 4 coco plants. I really want to compare taste. I will always believe that the most potent buds come from indoor hydroponic systems, but I want a side-by-side comparison for taste as well.

I started running my 1000W at 750W so I wont have to run my at all. At 1000W I'd have to run it whenever the light was on. My power bill is 300+$ a month from the 1000W and A/C!!!! With the ballast at 750W my tops stay about 4-5 degrees warmer than the room temperature. Currently they are at 83F but that's the hottest it ever gets. It's been warm these past few nights. Most of the night they drop to 78 or below with the light on. I'm trying to get a Co2 tank and regulator and just run my whole room with co2. I cant find a way to seal my tent economically. But until then. Is a few hours at 82-83F a night gonna hurt them? The temp falls to 80 or below after a few hours every night and stays there

 

[shibbysurfrider]

Ok mid week update! Plants are doing good. My plants in coco are starting to get green again after dosing with 5ml calmag+ per gallon along with some nutes and epsom salts. My 2 DWC lemon Kush are going to be giant, they are almost bigger than the 4 coco plants.... I'm probably going to tie them down tomo. They also seem to be eating a lot. My ppm dropped from 650 to 630 in 2 days and I didn't even top off yet. I think I need to go heavier on the CalMag+ because i see small brown spots on the older leaf edges. Currently I'm at 5mL per gallon of water CalMag+ in my DWC.

This grow will hopefully be managed better than my last grow. Here are some Pictures of my budding Grapefruit. I didnt really LST until they got too tall and I ended up with Giant Plants that are overgrowing my tent. Hopefully they will yield well. They smell amazing. Still look like they are 3+ weeks til harvest.

here are some pictures. My colors are a little off because i tried to compensate for the HPS making everything yellow. My poor Grapefruit went through hell, so I apologize ahead of time for all the bad leaves. I just don't want to cut them this late into flower. They have shoots going everywhere and i have to constantly push them out of the way. The ones on the left are starting to fall over from the weight of their buds. It's awesome, but a disaster at the same time. For new growers, i DO NOT condone large plants like this. PLEASE LST or atleast Lollipop your plants or flower them early. Big plants are a hassle and extra work. It's a learning process...

I also recommend cutting in perlite wiht your coco. The guy at the hydro shop recommended it to me but i thought he was trying to add on sale watever... I figured with Smart Pots they would dry out faster. I had hoped to be able to hand feed every other day, but with 100% coco its more like 1-2 times a week. I think this is the reason my plants were showing deficiencies. Is it OK to feed when coco is still moist? I do not want to over water. But I don't want to overfeed and burn them either....

I digress...

Here are the pictures

#1 My 2 DWC lemon kush on left with the 2 coco lemon kush in the front right and 2 coco grape ape behind the lemon kush (middle right). My 2 lemon kush are bushier than the 4 coco plants combined.

#2 DWC Lemon Kush

#3 coco Lemon Kush in front, coco grape apes in back

#4 here is the top of my bushy/short grapefruit. Horrible leaves... I know. I've burned them, over nuted, undernuted. Basically i'm stoked these are still alive and budding.

#5 side shoots of bushy/short grapefruit plant. Hope i can keep this one for a mommy. All shoots are covered in bud sites.

#6 These are my two giant/monster grapefruits that grew up past my HPS wtf? They are finally starting to fill out and trhow hairs. Gonna be 4 weeks til I pull these....
#7 Side shoots of the Giant/monster 2 grapefruits. They are overtaking my grow space, but I dont want to chop. I'm afraid of hermies. Or should I chop?

 

[shibbysurfrider]

i also recommend going easy on the nutes during flowering in DWC. These girls drink A LOT and my PPM Jumped 200 in 3 days! That's why we top with PLAIN water. I topped and got the PPM back down. My poor grapefruit....

 

[shibbysurfrider]

So overnight my DWC Lemon Kush drank about a gallon of water! They also started their stretch... 1'' overnight. My assumptions were correct and this one is a stretcher. You can't really tell from the picture angle but they put on atleast 1'' and surpassed the height of all my coco plants. AND the lid DWC container sits about 2'' lower than the coco plants.

i tied down about 7 tops and will tie what ever else stretches tomorrow. I prefer not to tie down after the first week of flower, but if I must....

I'm trading misc. grow equipment for a co2 set up on craigslist. Hopefully I'll have co2 up and running within the next week or so!

thanks for stopping by!

#1 Picture from above before the tie down

#2 mis behaving girls that stretch too much get tied down. I am NOT growing another jungle in my little tent lol

#3 Now that the DWC plants have been tied down, they are even with the coco plants. growth rates don't even compare.

#4 jungle plants. My frapefruit and falling all over themselves with buds. I'm happy, but its a mess. This bud covered main stem is about 18'' long and 3'' around. Still looks 3+ weeks out, week 8 of flowering and it's supposed to be an 8 week strain. Maybe i can manage to grow the clones of it properly...

 

[1quixotix]

I would think that in a match-up between DWC and coco on blumats and air/smart-pots, the end results would be similar, with the DWC coming in slightly ahead. All things being similar, and including a seasoned grower.

 

[shibbysurfrider]

yea. my this is only my 2nd solo grow and my first attempt with coco. It's a learning process. I just want to compare organic buds vs. synthetic. I think the organic 'taste' thing is more hype vs. anything. And I'm doing my own experiment to find out.

My next grow I want to do 3 clones of a single strain. Each in equal size containers. 1 in DWC, 1 in coco smart pot with synthetic nutes (same as DWC plant) and one in coco with organics. If I were to do 100% controlled experiement each test group would be in it's own tent with exactly the same set up as the other. I dont have the space, time or money for that right now.... Maybe SOMEday

thanks for stopping by

 

[shibbysurfrider]

So today I did something that will make some people cheer, while others will flinch.

I got a CO2 setup. I currently have a regulator on a timer, in a semi-sealed room. Tomorrow it will be as completely sealed as possible.

I have weather-stipped the door frames, added door draft stoppers, weather-stripped windows. and tomo i have insulating covers that go under all my power sockets and light switches to make those air tight.

I have my timer putting 2 cu. ft of co2, 3 hours later it does 1 cu ft, 3 hours later it squirts 3 cu ft of co2 and 3 hours later it does 1 cu ft. Not really sure how to run this, the regulator's instructions said that co2 should be replenished every 3 hours or so. But I figure in my semi-sealed rather large room for not that many plants, I think it will be sufficient.

my plants have been really taking off, but I really REALLY want my grapefruit to put on some weight and finish. I'm scared that they'll just be really airy because they're going to flower so much longer than they are supposed to.

Here are some pictures to compare growth rates. These were taken tonight. This is 2 days of growth without CO2 since the last pix. In 2 days I'll repost the growth with the CO2 and see if it's noticeable. I watered the coco plants last night with nutes and i topped off the DWC plants. My friend told me to always put nutes in with coco. And to never water with plain water unless you were flushing. Is this true? I have been on the nute, nute, water schedule, feeding twice and just plain water the third time. I have been showing minor deficiencies, but figured I was too conservative on nutes.

Pictures #1 Top view of my DWC lemon kush, coco lemon kush and coco grape ape. (i moved the grape ape to the front and the lemon kush to the back by the grapefruit)

#2 Skunky grapefruit. Besides the fact that it has all those yellow leaves, they are still swelling and the buds are looking good!

#3 top of skunky grapefruit

#4 some bottom shoots of the skunky grapefruit

#5 One of the icky grapefruits that decided to become a monster before showing buds. I hope all these sites swell nicely still look

All my grapefruit look 3-4 weeks out. This is the end of their 8th week of flower (breeder stated time), but due to my mistakes, they didn't really start throwing hairs til 4th/5th week of flower. I really really hope they yield decent. 1oz per plant on my first harvest would be awesome!!!

 

[talktosamson]

Excited to see the results of that grape ape, its a clone I wish I could get a hold of myself.

 

[shibbysurfrider]

The Grape Ape were freebies. Supposed to be a Afghan x Skunk that goes purple. Leaves are rounder and darker than all my other plants. Really showing a lot of new growth after a week in flower. I'm gonna try and drop the temps during lights off and/or use dry ice on them to get them real purple.

I read that for the strain Purple Pinecone the breeder recommended you refrigerate the buds overnight after cutting to make them purple. Anyone ever try this?

And my co2 didn't work out last night, my tank was empty. DOH! did a refill/exchange at my hydro shop for 15$ and im good to go. Since I cant seal my room 100%, I'm going to run the Co2 continuously throughout the night at .5 cfh. That roughly gives me 3 times the amount of co2 I need to keep the room at 1500ppm. Since my co2 setup was free, if I see any gains i'll be stoked. 15$ every 3 weeks isnt bad. I also read that co2 gets rid of pests and helps prevent mold. I'm in!

 

[shibbysurfrider]

So tonight the lights came on. I did rez changes in both my DWC set ups. I only set my Grapefruit PPM at 920 because they've been drinking a lot and ppm will rise a little if I don't top off everyday.
I started the Lemon Kush on Sensi Bloom A & B this week as well. I am trying to use grow nutrients the first week of bloom to help boost bud sites and have them fill out nicely. I also heard it prevents stretch? Well anyways, They've put on about 4'' in height in one week. And that's after the tie down. I will probably tie down for the last time tomorrow. Once again... I'm running out of space. I gotta plan these things better.

I am running my co2 constantly with lights on at .5cuft/hr. The hose is attached to the back of an oscillating fan that is blowing on my ladies. My 1600 cu ft room is mostly sealed, but not 100% so therefor, the constant CO2. I did the calculations and there is NO way I can poison myself or my plants at those levels. Even if my room was 100% sealed and no co2 was lost, it would only reach `4200ppm over the course of 12 hours. This is below the danger threshold. And since I sleep on the oposite side of the apartment with open windows, I have no fear. The regulator also said that the co2 should be replenished every 3 hours. Not quite sure if this pertains to my set up.

Enough Rambling. here are the pix. They got about an hour of co2 last night before my tank emptied.

#1 2 grapefruit keeps

#2 15'' ruler next to non branchy sativa-grapefruit. This one has long white hairs and the main stem is completely covered in buds for 18''

#3 Skunky grapefruit top next to 15'' ruler

#4 some side shoots of the skunky grapefruit

#5 width of skunky grapefruit top

#6 width of non branchy sativa grapefruit

#7 newly arranched bloom space. finally got my carbon filter up off the ground liek a big boy!

#8 Grapefruits in the back, holla.....

#9 closeup of keeper grapefruits

#10 my DWC lemon kush on the left with my 2 coco grape ape front right and 2 coco lemon kush behind

Thanks for stopping by! any questions go ahead and shoot.

HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!!!!

 

[InNvBoarder]

Ok Shibby i just scrolled thought your thread and im very interested to see the results. I have a few questions. 1 what are you using as a PK boost? 2 you said its your first time in Coco, are you using Drip Clean, or some sort of salt leaching nute? 3 why do you think you are " burning your plants" when using organic nutes? I run 100% canna coco and in my experience its easy to get lock-out problems before you have burning problems. Looks like all your new flowering ladies started out with a Nitrogen def. Check your nute lines NPK ration and see how high the nitrogen levels are. I would guess (if you've been running organics) your not burning your plants, just letting them get lock-out. Too much salt in the medium will cause this evertime!
Stoked to see what kinda diffrent results you get with the 2 diff. methods. Dont be afraid to experiment with your plants. If you think 900ish ppms are high, I run 1350ish to start wk 5 of flower. I obviously build up to that, but you must remember that its not always what the ppms are, but what the ppms are of! If you hit them too hard they will tell you rite away and you can flush and start over. The best teachers are the plants themselves. Good luck

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

DWC no contest, I will race any system with my rdwc

ya seriously. when you got a strain dialed in you can get it to grow 3 inches in a day. at least i did with my ssh haze pheno. i'll get there with the lvpk too i hope

 

[staff11]

I know which one will taste better. :O)