Dutch Master Gold

[stoney419]

My guy at the hydro store told me DO NOT add potash using gold the way it came up was he gave me a deal on some DM advanced for grow and said don't add the potash when flowering with gold like DM says do a week before he said that's if your not using the gold
But yes i'm using the max L. L. pen. zone & silica just been 3 weeks but I'm pleased so far

 

[fredflintstoned]

I have to agree w/Stoney. Results with DM Gold, zone , silica and a bloom booster gives excellent results. Using any other additives would seem a waste of time and money. It may even be counterproductive. When I first bought the Gold line a year ago, my store was out of the max. I've never used it and don't know if it would help. This thread reminds me, I should check the store next time and try Max on the next run.
Film at eleven.

 

[shiva das]

Stoney...
I just found pure flowers at a patio store. It was actually pretty cheap. just do a google search and you'll see it. This is my first time running DM gold. So far so good. The zone, is that basiclly like hydrozyme?

your grow over at your thread looks great.

 

[shiva das]

are the silica and zone necessary? Using pure flowers, do you up the dose or keep it at 1mm per gal the whole time?

give thanks

shiva

 

[stoney419]

Stoney: Yes, I use the Pure Flowers at every feed. The first feed, right at the flip, I use about 20% less. I've played around with different amounts, but found the 1ml. to the gallon works best for me.

my guy at the hydro store said i DID NOT need max zone or silica but i picked them up any way but he knows his shit he has been working there for 10 years i know of

 

[thecarguy]

DM Max is a fulvic/humic acid product. It helps chelate the macronutrients that are not already chelated in DM Gold. It also has phospholipids that encourage the production of hormones. That's why they have seperate flower/veg products.

DM Zone is chloramine, which is a version of chlorine that does not evaporate from water. Only use Zone if you are running hydro and are not able to keep your rez temps below 78 F, or if you have problems with root rot.

DM Silica is just that, silica!

Personally, I recommend the DM Gold with a fulvic and silica additive. I prefer BioAg Ful-Power as I've found it very pure for a fulvic source. I use whatever silica is available, though surprisingly, Advanced Nutrients Barricade is the most cost effective for me due to its extreme concentration.

 

[fredflintstoned]

Shiva:
I would say NEVER increase the dose of Pure Flowers above 1ml. per gallon. I've gone to 1.5ml. before and practically set my plants ablaze! This stuff is incredibly concentrated!
DANGER DANGER Will Robinson!!!!!!!!!!

Carguy: Thanks, that makes alot of sense. The one time I used a Fulvic product with DM Gold, the yield was better. I was gonna get some next time at the shop. Guess I'll get the Max Flower. I have read a little about the fulvic/humic ratio. Still don't get it. Can you shed some light?
Fred

 

[stoney419]

So the carguy are saying use max and a fulvic additve
Stoney

 

[thecarguy]

Fred-
Fulvic/humic ratios are much more important in soil than they are in hydro. Fulvic is a type of refined humic, that has a very low molecular weight, so it's very bio-available and it dissolves completely in my rez. These things make me prefer Fulvic.

Stoney-
I would EITHER get a fulvic supplement or Max Flower. Personally I use a fulvic supp called BioAg Ful-Power that I believe is very high quality. I also add some sililca.

DM has a new additive I'm anxious to try called ADD.27. I have no idea of its chemical composition but seeing as it's the first Gold tank additive, it's probably innovative.

 

[fredflintstoned]

Cool, the fulvic products i.e., Max Flower are usually cheaper than the straight humics I've seen locally.
Of course, my dumbass got a straight 15% humic off the clearance shelf at the shop three day ago. Only five bucks, though. I'm glad I don't have to worry about any ratios now.
Thanks
Fred

 

[Capn]

I can't wait to see what this ADD27 is about either.

 

[thecarguy]

I hope it has chelated magnesium and calcium, something AN Conni has that I wish DM Gold had.

I also wish it had a slightly higher P and K content, because some people are speculating that DM Gold still can benefit from a bloom booster.

What can you do eh? The Washington Ag website had the DM ADD.27 guaranteed analysis on it, it didn't list any cal or mag.

 

[Capn]

Looks like ADD.27 is 0-2-2

 

[toohighmf]

Cal & Mg. Should never be in the same bottles of salt ferts. It precipitates and messes with various forms of nitrogen. While I agree barricade is 100% potassium silicate... I I've the stuff, but AN can't get conny to not precipitate, and monkey juice which is sensi AB with sensicalmg.. Crap coco fert! I love the idea of conny, but DM gold has it goin on!
Also, 100% humic is available in 10 lb. Pails for like $10.
Same as fulvics... I have found that you cant overuse humic/fulvic. The most amazing trich production I ever saw in my life. perhaps a high PK booster at the proper times with some simple adds, could really bring gold to it's full potential. I'm about to do a comparrison of Lucas formula with hydroplex, calmg+, superthrive, barricade, and finish with with a 0-50-30 or closest I can find for cheap. Gold res will have the same adds. Should be interesting. I may grab a can of big bud/overdrive if I don't see adequete production by the end of week 3.

 

[Capn]

Looking forward to your results THMF.

Why is it that most cal-mag supplements have calcium nitrite if calcium and magnesium mess with nitrogen? So confusing all these nutrients!!

 

[stoney419]

Cal & Mg. Should never be in the same bottles of salt ferts. It precipitates and messes with various forms of nitrogen. While I agree barricade is 100% potassium silicate... I I've the stuff, but AN can't get conny to not precipitate, and monkey juice which is sensi AB with sensicalmg.. Crap coco fert! I love the idea of conny, but DM gold has it goin on!
Also, 100% humic is available in 10 lb. Pails for like $10.
Same as fulvics... I have found that you cant overuse humic/fulvic. The most amazing trich production I ever saw in my life. perhaps a high PK booster at the proper times with some simple adds, could really bring gold to it's full potential. I'm about to do a comparrison of Lucas formula with hydroplex, calmg+, superthrive, barricade, and finish with with a 0-50-30 or closest I can find for cheap. Gold res will have the same adds. Should be interesting. I may grab a can of big bud/overdrive if I don't see adequete production by the end of week 3.

hey toohigh if it's not to much trouble can you give us exact amounts of everything you put in the reses over in your thread you know per gal.
would be a great help brother thanks agin for shareing you knolage now if you could help me learn how to spell lol

 

[thecarguy]

Toohigh, I can agree that cal and mg shouldn't generally be in the same bottle; DM Gold has them in seperate bottles. However, that's because the cal and mag in DM Gold aren't chelated. AN Conni has amino chelated Mg and EDTA chelated Ca (I know you know this, Toohigh, just pointing it out for others). Being chelated, they will not precipitate, they will be available at a wider range of pH, and they will be more bioavailable to the plant. So, if Add.27 had chelated Cal and Mg they could throw em in the same bottle w/o any interference.

I really wish DM Gold had chelated Cal and Mag! However, their label and some research indicates DM Gold only has chelated micros: Zinc, Iron, Copper, Manganese.

Do you have any info on that, Toohigh?

 

[thecarguy]

Btw, Toohigh, I like your formula. I am interested in your side-by-side.

My formula is DM Gold, Fulvic, Silica, and OregonismXL for beneficials. I can't decide if I should incorporate a bloom booster.

 

[Seed Buyer]

I just started by 1st trial of Gold and was really surprised by the high ec rates needed for good growth. I know my strains backwards and forwards, and always start freshly rooted clones at 1.0 ec no matter what salt based fert I used. However, w/ gold they were way under feed at 1.0. My sensi stars (which are lite feeders) are 12" tall and are vegging at 2.2-2.4 ec and not burning! I never used to even flower past 1.4 ec. I wander why they don't burn w/ the Gold? Also, there new "Penetrator Gold" is bad ass! So when I flower should I plan on using a bloom booster even though Dutch Master doesn't recommend it?

 

[toohighmf]

Thecarguy: I will say you definately understand the contents of chelation, and have a lot of knowledge when it comes to the chemistry of making phosphates and nitrates co mingle in harmony. I'm learning a lot from you actually. I actually have a can of oregonism, and was considering using bennies, but from my experiences in stonewool, it was never very practical. I also hate scrubbing that black crap off my trays everytime I finish, so I keep things simple and flush with H2o2. I'm no chemist, but after working for AN, befriending Tregg from botanicare, and ask Erik (yes I got him the job at AN) I have some good mentors when it comes to salt fert chemistry.

Stoney, I'll post up what I'm using for nutes in the side by side in my thread when I flip and start using the new gold formula. It seems the app rates have changed a bit. I only used it to veg a crop a year+ ago, and 300ppm was all I needed, compared to 1000ppm with EDTA chelated ferts like GH flora, or AN 3 part.. I was amazed by the growth rates, the beautiful coloration, and the leaves were huge! I never ran the bloom myself. Just helped others, and they were very impressed with it. I do almost everything by ppms, but I'll do the conversion by testing ppm/ml, and post it up in DIY NFToohigh for ya. I never go by ml, except on these forums because it's what most people understand. However bottle instructions are based on a perfect product. There is no such thing. All batches are slightly off from their target. That's why I mix by ppm.