Droopy plants

[Scrappy-doo]

First run in a while.

Plants look like this when lights come on.

And look like this the last few hours of lights on

Growing in Canna Coco with pbp grow 7ml, calmag 1ml, hygrozyme 1ml per gal, with tap water.

Hand watering once per day

5.8ph with recently calibrated meter

Temps 70-73 day 65 night. 80% humidity

Light is 315w cdm with 942 spectrum in a cycloptics hood, 24" above canopy.

18/6 cycle

This has been happening for about a week, ever since I moved them into my new flower cab. They are still vegging.

Originally the flower cab was 4x4. When I noticed this happening my first thought was the light, so I raised it as high as I could and expanded the cab to 5x5. No change.

Then I thought it could be lack of c02. There is no venting in here atm. The cab is in a 10x12 room, one wall of the cab removed with a large fan blowing air from the rest of the room into it. I picked up some green pads but the bag they came in was opened and I got it a t a discount, so they might be spent I dunno.

So I thought maybe the roots, but the roots look good and busting out the bottom of the pots, white as can be.

Next I tried upping the food to 10 ml/gal, ended up burning some plants.

So now I suspect it could be either airflow/lack of c02, or the light is still too much for them.

Since I don't know if the greenpads are working, most of the lights on period I keep the door to the room open with a fan blowing fresh air in. I have a gas stove so I turn it on a few times throughout the day to boost co2 levels. I close the door when I go to sleep, and wake up to them looking like this. The door is closed for about 5 hours so no fresh air in that time. When I wake up I open the door again and the last 2 hours of lights on they get circulation again, but the plants don't perk up. When lights come back on they look good again, and the cycle repeats.

C02 seems like the obvious factor but I've had issues with the intensity of these lights in the past, so those are my 2 guesses. I plan on sleeping in the room to up c02 levels for that time period. If that doesn't help I will raise the light even more but it will require extending the height of the cab so I'm holding off till I rule out other possibilities.

Any suggestions or insights?

 

[J.R.R. Tokein]

Your RH should never go above 60%. I'm am not totally sure if fixing your RH will fix this issue, but you should not have a RH of 80%.

 

[razzcazz4200]

It sounds like you need some ventilation 80% isnt good for flower. It looks like theyre having a hard time transpiring. Doesnt coco work better if you water multiple times a day? I thought i read something about the oxygen being depleted in the medium. IDK i grow in soil. hope you can figure it out cuz they look pretty nice at lights on.

 

[maimunji]

Running 80% rh and my plants are in 2 week in to flower perk and happy never have issues like your even in veg with temp 20C°. Plants looks like want some cal mag spray every 3 days full dose. They also looks hungry but if you say they burn after up the basic try to up cal mag.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Your RH should never go above 60%. I'm am not totally sure if fixing your RH will fix this issue, but you should not have a RH of 80%.

AFAIK 70% humidity is ideal for veg which is the stage they are in. 80% is not much more but then again with temps only @70 maybe it is not a good combo.

It sounds like you need some ventilation 80% isnt good for flower. It looks like theyre having a hard time transpiring. Doesnt coco work better if you water multiple times a day? I thought i read something about the oxygen being depleted in the medium. IDK i grow in soil. hope you can figure it out cuz they look pretty nice at lights on.

They are not in flower yet, though I agree they look to be having difficulty transpiring. The leaves are sorta thick and rubbery feeling. They don't need multiple waterings yet. If they were in smaller pots they would need it but atm they are fine with once a day and the roots are healthy so the problem is something else I think.

Running 80% rh and my plants are in 2 week in to flower perk and happy never have issues like your even in veg with temp 20C°. Plants looks like want some cal mag spray every 3 days full dose. They also looks hungry but if you say they burn after up the basic try to up cal mag.

Yeah most of them got burned tips when I upped the feed to 10ml and a couple blueberry plants got fried pretty good. I may up the calmag but doubtful it is related to the droopiness. I think? Been a few years since I ran coco so I'm a bit rusty. I figured with tap water the need for extra would be minimal.

Good to hear your plants are doing well with 80% humidity.

I'm starting to think it may just be lumen shock once again from the light too close which is really fukn crazy considering it's only 315 watts in a 5x5.

Still trying to rule out any other variables

Any other opinions?

 

[razzcazz4200]

Whats the temp when you open the cabinet in the morning? maybe heat build up?

 

[Scrappy-doo]

The highest temps I've been able to get are 74 F and that is at the end of the day for them. Most of the lights on time the temp is 70-71 but it creeps up a bit when I close the door.

 

[corky1968]

If you can make a 2 extra four inch holes in the roof and 2 in the bottom of you grow chamber to allow
more air exchange. You can never have too much air flow. Just put some material to screen out the bugs
and leave the air flow naturally. No fan needed on these extra ventilation holes.

This will help.

 

[Mystic Funk]

I think it's getting hotter in there than you think. get a new thermometer it's broken...
get one that keeps track of the highest and lowest temps. their like 20 bucks and they also keep track of RH%...
I have had faulty thermometers in the past. I keep two going so I can check and see if one is out of whack..
get some vent holes in there too..


peace
-mystic

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Thanks Corky. The entire bottom 6 inches and top 1 foot of the walls are completely open. It is basically a wooden frame with a 4ft strip of orca film around it. The top has a blanket over it that comes down the sides about 6 inches but under that is all open for a foot all the way around, completely open above and below the orca film.

If ventilation is the problem, it is lack of fresh air coming into the room. The cab itself has a wall removed and a box fan 5ft away blowing straight above the canopy to the back wall. Unless I'm missing what you are trying to say?

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Hey Mystic. The thermometer I have is the same as what you are talking about. It's possible it's off a little though.

I just checked and it currenty says 69F and the house thermostat is reading 68F, so I think it's good. I have another one though so I will dig it up and compare. So this looks like a heat issue to you?

 

[corky1968]

Open a window in the house and let in lots of fresh air in then.

Outside air always has less humidity unless it's raining.

 

[Mystic Funk]

Hey Mystic. The thermometer I have is the same as what you are talking about. It's possible it's off a little though.

I just checked and it currenty says 69F and the house thermostat is reading 68F, so I think it's good. I have another one though so I will dig it up and compare. So this looks like a heat issue to you?

yes. or a under or over watering problem..
it has something to do with the lights coming on and the first thing that comes to mind is heat or water problems
what changes when the lights stay on? heat, water, RH,????


can you see the roots without pissing them off too much?? check that out. that's what I would do next....

 

[Scrappy-doo]

I would open a window, but outside temps are like 40 at night when the lights are on. I have a dehumidifier though. Only reason I question humidity being the problem is because I've seen plenty of grows with high humidity that didn't have this problem. I agree though that fresh incoming air would be helpful, it's just not possible without dropping my temps dramatically.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

How about the root zone being too cold? Maybe that's affecting the plants ability to uptake? It's not too hot, if anything it's too cold in there. My temp readings are at canopy level. When I wake up and check in there it finally feels a comfortable temp, although muggy and humid. But that's when the plants are not happy anymore.

 

[Unclecrash]

I have some of the same stuff in my veg cab it gets cold and the stems red up like phosforus def. My Tahoe is red up to the growth tips they slow down then when I switch to flower they look like yours while they harden off for a few days then the extra heat in the flower room sends them on there way greening back up and the red goes away to an extent. Under 315's in my flower room T5 in veg need to switch around my cool air intake it runs through my veg box first which makes my girls cold in the veg room soon to be changed . See if you can get a bit of heat in there roots might be a bit to cold. What size pots you running and are they getting lite after a day. Your not too close I am running between 20 and 24 inches . but you have to remember they are intense as hell might only be 315 watt but intense like the sun. Looks a biyt defficient on mag also but could be from other conditions. I try to keep my tops of canopy 78 or so.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Thanks Uncle, good to see a fellow 315 farmer. Do you put yours in immediately at 20-24"? How long do they take to harden off usually?

The lights just came on for the day and they look happy. I turned on the dehumidifier and set it to 65. It also bumped up my temps to 76 atm. It feels better in there, much more comfortable. I will also sleep in there tonight and see how they do. Hopefully tomorrow I wake up to nice perky tops.

 

[BakedBandit]

Vpd. Vapor pressure deficit. Think you got it now. For you low to mid 70s temps you want 55-65 rh

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Well, I woke up today and sure enough, droopy plants. 65rh, 78 degrees. I'm not fucking around anymore. Gonna raise the light.

 

[vapeorbong]

i liek to suggest getting several temp/humidity thermometers and place them in different areas....i find that conditions can vary even in small spaces...but it helps identify areas of problems

VAPOR Pressure Deficeit charts are important.... air quality, freshness, temp, humidity, maybe even BAROMETRIC pressure....... it may be the light is too strong for your plants at that stage....it could be many things causing the droop at begin and end of light cycles..

if possible to move 1 small one outdoors and if recovers in day or 2 its def something w/ room conditions


regards to VPD...measured directly under my hoods measures about 8 deg F higher and about 10% lower humidity than near walls and outside from the directly under hood~ 1 foot away