Droopy / Pale Green, Claw? Overwater Coco?

[bobs your uncle]

I must have read every (exaggeration, nearly every) thread concerning plant diagnosis here in the Coco Forum, Infirmary etc, and I think I've hit the wall as far as information overload goes, so I'm hoping I can get some opinions/advice on how to get these girls looking lush and perky.

um.. first grow (I bet the pics gave that away). I'm pretty sure I over-watered them in the begining even though I must of read two dozen different threads referring to new growers having a tendency to over-water their first grows.

The whole 10% or 15% run off thing has me a little spooked because of my initial assumedly over-watering. There's no way I could get run-off from every watering without drowning my plants. And to water 3 - 4 times a day with run off?... I'v only got run-off those first couple waterings and it looked like I over-watered, droopy plants etc. My containers are usually heavy (wet) and I'v even got a little algae going on the surface of some of the perlite. You can be quite sure I overcompensated and under-watered them next. I drank the Koo-aid as far as the must have run-off mantra goes, and now two weeks into this grow my plants are -...over it. As this is my first grow, it's all a learning experience, I'm just not sure what I'd do different next time.

So my question is.... Does the droop, pale green color, red/purple stems - branches and claw in the photos just smack of an obvious deficiency in nutes? water? grower inexperience?

Any info/advice would be appreciated.



15 days since transplant from clone
Canna Coco/ Perlite (70/30)
3 gallon containers
Canna nutes, A + B rizo, zym
Lights on temps 73º-78º
Lights off temps 66º - 73º
RH 40/60%

Tap water ppm 40, EC - .08?
Tap PH 8+

After adding nutes and adjusting PH:
PH 5.7 - 6.0
EC 1st week .9 - 1.0
2nd week 1.2 - 1.5

 

[Guest]

They look OK to me. I hand water my plants with 15% runoff every 24 to 36 hours. I let the top dry about 1'' before watering.

 

[EddieShoestring]

they don't look too bad-but the clawed profile of some of the leaves shows that your ec is too high-

good luck
eddie

 

[Guest]

typical coco problem. Which canna nutes are they? If they are coco specific...then I would say your medium needs a flush. If they are regular nutes, I suggest some cal-mag, or epsom salts in a pinch.

If I was you( and I did have this problem a few weeks ago), I would flush every pot with a warmish water...lots of water. Refeed, but lower the ec. About 2/3 strength of what the bottle says. They will come around nice. I find in coco that it''s best to feed at a lower ppm(ec) because you water daily or almost. Secondly...when plants are small in coco...it's best to let them drink abit between feedings to ensure they are taking it in. Creates a less lazy root system.

I think if you measure the ec of the runoff during the flush..you'll be surprised how high it is.

Others may have suggestions...but I hope you consider what I said.

Cheers,
SH

 

[Guest]

Test your runoff let us know what it is..

Here is the proper way to test your runoff..

If it is high, flush with a light nute solution..

 

[bobs your uncle]

Thanks for the replies guys.

So leaf "claw" and leaf "droop" -separate / different reactions to separate / different unfavorable conditions?

Should I be concerned about the reddish color on the stem & branches?

I agree, a flush is in order, it's just that in the back of my mind I'm thinking something's not right with this picture: First I almost drown them, then practically starve them trying to correct my previous bad (did I mention the crazy heat wave that just rolled though the bay area a couple of days ago), now to add insult to injury, I'm about to do one of those fraternity water-hazing initiation stunts and make my pledges drink gallon after gallon of water until they either submit or more likely die.

I know, I know, it's in their best interest.

Thanks for the runoff link Indica, they did mention using distilled water to collect the leachate, leachate... I like this word leachate ...depending on how I pronounce it, conjures up all kinds of images - French images... some savory and some unsavory. Ah, but I digress. No distilled water on hand but I could get some if necessary.

UPDATE: Lights just came on since I started writing this reply, and the girls are looking a little better to me. These two photos are no more than 8 hours apart. The plants look a little greener and perky-er?. I know HID lights alter the colors/hues of photos but these two shots are with the same camera,etc. No Photoshop filters other than "auto adjust" used on both pics. The only difference is the photo on the left was taken about an hour before "lights off" and photo on the right about an hour after "lights on". Does the lumen - kelvin - color spectrum change that noticeably over an 18 hour "on/off" period?

I will test my leachate and post the results. I'm keeping decent notes on this grow so maybe I'll start a grow diary also. My mistakes - are your gain. Thats right, a marijuana martyr.

 

[EddieShoestring]

UPDATE: Lights just came on since I started writing this reply, and the girls are looking a little better to me. These two photos are no more than 8 hours apart. The plants look a little greener and perky-er?.

plants can do that-if they are a bit stressed (or alot) they might pick up a bit during the dark period-then we put them under pressure with light/heat etc and 18hours later they are looking rough again-

sometimes raising the lamps a little can give the plants a bit of relief if something else is causing a problem-

if you have pure coco, or coco cut with pearlite, and the pots can drain freely then it's virtually impossible to over water-the problem must be something else

cheers
eddie

 

[gaiusmarius]

to be honest most people that experimented with coco/perlit mixtures, went back to pure coco pretty quickly.

as far as i understand you arestill in the veg phase, so a bit of red on a stem here and there is no big deal.

are you using the coco A+B? you need to stop thinking about the coco in terms of earth. you don't check how wet or heavy the pot is, you decide on a watering plan and you stick to it. once a day is best as soon as the plants have reached a certain size, with bigger pots every 2 days can still be good. but basically the fastest growth is achieved with drip irrigation, multiple times a day.

check this thread for a nice guide on hand watering in coco.....

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=48054

 

[Neptune]

this is overwatering 100%

I deal with this every crop, new clones just don't have enough roots to soak up the water that early. I frequently get the overwatering blues, I recognize my nemesis anywhere buddy... that is overwater.

Coco may be great to drip and soak, but early on back it off a bit and see what works for you. I know I may be castrated for saying this, but I would personally water those plants in that setup 1-2x a week.

Or just enough to keep an even moisture content throughout the medium, which for me is 1-2x per week... i do this from weeks 1-3 veg.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

What you have to understand, Is that overwatering is a mis-nomer... If there could be too much water, then DWC would never work... The problem is under-oxygenation... In coco, by watering often and with run-off you keep the medium oxygenated enough to prevent the symptoms you percieve as overwatering...