Droopy, Pale, Claw... Overwater Coco?

[bobs your uncle]

I must have read every (exaggeration, nearly every) thread concerning plant diagnosis here in the Infirmary, Coco Forum etc, and I think I've hit the wall as far as information overload goes, So I'm hoping I can get some opinions/advice on how to get these girls looking lush and perky.

um.. first grow (I bet the pics gave that away). I'm pretty sure I over-watered them in the begining even though my pre-grow research explained this to be a classic newbie mistake. The whole 10% or 15% run off thing has me spooked because of my initial assumedly over-watering. There's no way I could get run-off from every watering without drowning my plants. And to water 3 - 4 times a day with run off?... I'v only got run-off those first couple waterings and it looked like I over-watered, droopy etc. My containers are usually heavy (wet) and I'v even got a little algae going on the surface of some of the perlite. I'll save my breath on the coco run-off discussion, as I truly believe it is necessary. Personally, I'm just a little concerned about putting more water on those plants.

So my question is.... Does the droop, pale green color, red/purple stems - branches and claw in the photos just smack of an obvious deficiency in nutes? water? grower experience?

Any info/advice would be appreciated.


15 days since transplant from clone
Canna Coco/ Perlite (70/30)
Canna nutes, A + B riz, zym
Lights on temps 73º-78º
Lights off temps 69º - 73º
RH 40/60%

Tap water ppm 40 EC - .08?
Tap PH 8+

Nute
PH 5.7 - 6.0
EC 1st week .9 - 1.0
2nd week 1.5 - 1.6

 

[Lady 420]

Are you watering 3 or 4 times a day?

 

[bitpoop21]

it looks like a lack of iron see the tip burn they look under fed
if they are in a fast draining soil mix you cannot over water.
if in clay you can run water all day long

 

[bitpoop21]

I would get the advance nutrients revive and spay with that

 

[Blackmelo]

those plants look alright. I'll agree that they look a bit underfed. Are you using the specific coco nutes by canna? If so, they should have all that the plants need so just up the strength a bit.

The curling of the leaves could be caused by a few things but usually a common cause is a disruption in the air exchange of the plant. How do you ventilate the space? You might want to think about improving this. With the amount of plants you have you really should have an extractor fan pulling at least 20 times the volume of your grow room proving fresh air and an oscillating fan in the room to move air about.

ps: you can't really overwater in coco. Don't worry about that so much. I used to water once a day when I tried coco, that is all they need and it's plenty but you can water more, won't make any difference though. One of the reasons I gave up coco was cause once a day was too much for me and 4 times a day will get really annoying after a while so you might as well try once a day now cause it will work just as well and you will have less work to do.

 

[resinryder]

"EC 1st week .9 - 1.0
2nd week 1.5 - 1.6"

I think that is your problem there. Too much too quick. Believe it or not, that is a big jump in only a week. Read over the Nitrogen effects in the Infirmirary(hehe spelling again)section again and see if any more of your problems apply. Check the Calcium and magnesium sections aswell. I think you've just "loved" them a bit too much.
I do hydro tables and have for quite some time. I start at .8 the first week, up it to EC-1.0-1.2(1.2 if I know the strain) the next week and so on. For plants in the veg stage I rarely go over 1.8 EC, again depending on strain. What you've done is go from 1st to 3rd gear with them and skipped 2nd. Back it down to around 1.1-1.2 EC and see how they respond.
Are you using CalMag? In most hydro or Coco situations, CalMag is definatly gonna be your friend. Usually a must.
The "claw" look is usually associated with nitrogen toxicicity(sp) and in some cases way too much CO2.
Once you get the coco dialed in those plants will rock it for ya. Good luck!

 

[bobs your uncle]

Thanks for the feedback everybody

Lady- The 3 to 4 per day watering schedule refers to a drip system set up where you irrigate small amounts multiple times to reach the same amount as one normal watering, similar to an ebb & flo but from the top. I'm set up for this but haven't implemented it yet.

Blackmelo- I agree they don't look too bad, just not as perky as other examples I've seen here. I think I've got the ventilation - circulation in check, but your 20x the room volume formula for the extraction has me rethinking this. Do you mean 20 times room volume per minute?, 5 minutes? My room is about 800 cf and my fan with filter is rated at 559 CFM so I figure the total volume of the room gets exchanged every 2 minutes.

RR- You've got a good point there about skipping 2nd. Underfed?, overfed?, either way, that wasn't a very subtle increase. I was planning on using Cal/Mag but was told that it's not necessary with Canna coco if using tap water, as those minerals will be in the water.

Do I need to be concerned about the reddish/purple stems and branches?


The plants have perked up a bit during their 8 hours of darkness (I always thought that's when they droop?) I think I'll use one plant as a control, ease up on the nutes a bit and see what happens.

Again, thanks for the input everybody.

 

[Blackmelo]

hey bob, your ventilation sounds fine to me.

I would listen to resinryder, what he said sounds like good advice.

Don't worry about reddish purplish stems, that is just genetics.

Good luck.