'DP' 'The Ultimate' - 'NFT SCROG'

[Tokesome]

They`re looking great mate. Hard to tell on the photos how far it needs to go, hps lighting `n all.

Gd luck with the next couple of weeks, hope they end up being late performers for ya as ya hope, some do do well right at the end eh?

What about the traspiration issue I mentioned mate?

Cheers Toke ;-)

 

[Scrogerman]

Here's a pic of the Tank & Stems, there starting to push and twist now, which i expected:



G'Luck!!!!!!!!!!
Read back a page & if you wanna go into real detail on the transpiration issue PM me dude np!!!!

 

[Scrogerman]

A friend of mine who intro'ed me to OG years ago, he was called Mooncat on there, he turned me on to Scrogging & taught me alot on the subject had a really cool way(excuse the pun) of getting Cool air to his buds. He would use 4" dryer hose with a PC fan(100mm) attatched, they fit perfect in the hose, then gaffa tape round to seal, he would use 4 or so of these cool'worms as he called them. God man, ducting cooler air in from somewhere else left him with a shroud of cool air around his buds. He liked a really tight canopy, scary im tellin ya, he got a little mold but that was to be expected, he was pulling 15oz with a 250 watt hps super! yeah you read it right 15oz(1 or sometimes 2 plants). Great grower & a great tecnique with the cool worms. He would use doorbell wire to attatch them and a 12v adapter for every 2 worms, low wattage & really worked well. maybe you could benefit from such knowledge! If you want more info on it PM me dude! Later!!!!!!!!

 

[Scrogerman]

I'll try to answer your Q's like this!

I'll try to answer your Q's like this!

No I aint read a thing about it mate, just always thought it was a no no, but have no info behind that at all.

When ya got more pics Scrogger, how they looking, are ya gonna bring em off all together with the ripen product you`ve mentioned?

'More than likely will be using the GH ripen, it will help to find a balance, some will be a little over & some a little under - maybe, i do know that GH Ripen helps when going from seed as not all pheno's are alike as you know!

Do you manage to stop all your transpiration in a dense canopy, I`m assuming you have to or problems will surely come knocking. I`m a bit worried about the amount of wind pressure I`m having to blow on them with the fans, a problem associated with large scrogs as to get a gentle breeze in the middle ya need a gale at the edge. I`ve got 4 fans aimed over my grow now, along with 4 clip fans underneath the canopy and I`m just about on top of the transpiration. Its just where leaves touch each other, but there are many that do in such a canopy. It looks kinda scary having so much bud growing up so close to each other.

Have you thought about clipping a fan or three to the middle underside of you screen pointing up through your canopy? or try the cool worms like ive mentioned!

Something I`m gonna have to keep a close eye on this thru the rest of the grow.

? Me-too!!

You know a while back I asked if the buds were a bit thin towards the bottom because of leaf tucking, what I meant by this was do you think folding so much of the leaf below the screen or at least out of the way of the light, affects the buds that those leafs stem from, ie. by taking many of there solar panel like leaves out of the light, does this affect bud production significantly further down the colas? What`s yer thoughts on it mate?

Yeah its bound to affect production, but better than removing them. Moving them around into different positions helps alot.!

Toke;-)

Good Luck, if there's something you wanna disscuss & go into more detail with Please PM dude!

 

[Scrogerman]

ScroggerMan: I am just glad I can watch your grow months before I can see mine actually come around!! Not that our operations are anyhting alike LOL!! Still a Great Thread! for me Thanks!!

Your welcome buddy!¬)

I think your right about my plant looking more Satvia than indica... the Indica strain I am growing next to it look very diffrent and its mostly indica. the leafs on my DP are spikeyer fo sho...

Looks like it could be a 50/50 so dont be dissheartened buddy, like i said the leaf pattern likes to change in this strain!

Maybe next time your taking photos you could show me the 2 sides of the scale in your garden, the least producing and the best indica pheno ya got!

I'll see what i can do for you, theres a couple of pics there that may answer you Q!! G'Luck buddy!

 

[Tokesome]

Cheers Scrogger, sorry, I dont know how I missed the post over the page. You just reminded me that I have a few small 4" inline fans, came with a bunch of stuff I was given a few weeks back. I`ll see what I can rig up in the coming days if I`m still having issues with transpiration. I do already have some fans beneath the canopy, but I prefer to keep that damp air from around the pots moving out to the sides rather than blow it up through the canopy, not sure if my thinking is right here or not tho.

Yeah I`ve been tucking leaves nearly every day, as there is always some leaf movement covering up some bud. . . . . and I aint having that!! I`ll chop some fan leaf off if it gets too crowded, or I need air movement, but I dont think it`ll get a great deal worse now (said with fingers crossed!) Its a balance of keeping leaves in the light as much as possible without obscuring the buds. Fortunately most of the leaves are reaching upwards towards the sky/ceiling and not horizontal over the plant below.

Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Cheers Scrogger, sorry, I dont know how I missed the post over the page. You just reminded me that I have a few small 4" inline fans, came with a bunch of stuff I was given a few weeks back. I`ll see what I can rig up in the coming days if I`m still having issues with transpiration. I do already have some fans beneath the canopy, but I prefer to keep that damp air from around the pots moving out to the sides rather than blow it up through the canopy, not sure if my thinking is right here or not tho.

Yeah duct the air in from somewhere else then, like the Cool'worms they are mustard mate, i use them myself in summer months, i cant speak highly enough about them and fookin simple to rig up, fk all watts, you just need the right adapter, 12v Ac i think, may be wrong i always get it mixed up-AC' or DC, 1 will work 1 wont! just remember a max of 2 per adaptor, or they'll get too hot, 1 per adapter is better, even keep one fan fixed on the adapters to keep them cool!

Yeah I`ve been tucking leaves nearly every day, as there is always some leaf movement covering up some bud. . . . . and I aint having that!! I`ll chop some fan leaf off if it gets too crowded, or I need air movement, but I dont think it`ll get a great deal worse now (said with fingers crossed!) Its a balance of keeping leaves in the light as much as possible without obscuring the buds. Fortunately most of the leaves are reaching upwards towards the sky/ceiling and not horizontal over the plant below.

Keep moving them into different positions, i know its all work but they will benefit from you doing this, at least then sometimes they are in light !!!!!!

Toke

Good Luck dude!!!!!!!!

 

[squarepush3r]

Hey Toke,
No if you ever clock a few seeds in your buds, chances are they are all female if im not mistaken, thats if it polinated itself with just a small % of that plant being Male & the majority Female!, this is a good thing buddy imo! Ive seen this a few times & sure enough the seed was all fem! I'm pretty sure Jorge Cervantes covers it in one of his indoor bibles, Indoor Marijuana Horticulture(i think)-great book!!! Ive read that point in a few different places, & seen it myself, unless i was just really lucky.!

A few Pics for ya as requested-taken last night, 8 weeks completed-start of wk-9'



The little side buds are surprising me too! Not all pheno's are performing though & i'm dissapointed about that atm, 8 weeks no-way, this strain should be listed as 10 wks+ imo, conditions have been pretty optimal, apart from 2-3 wks where the temps were 80f, which aint that hot, they are a little heat sensitive imo too! temps atm are averaging 76f, heat damage has progressed although i do have it under control now!

Peace & Respect..... Scroger'

hot damnnn those are big bud

 

[Tokesome]

Wow they are powerful stems mate, partly because of the long training period I guess (?), they have some spread t cover, no wonder they`re buckling a bit. How high have you set the screen above the rockwool blocks?

Toke ;-)

 

[Scrogerman]

17" LOL

17" LOL

Hey Toke Buddy!
Yeah they required a 6-7 week veg, as an avid ScrOG fan/lover this is a week or two too long for my liking. The problem was funds, at the time it was the only suitable, easy to handle system for the funds we had, most of the budget went on illumination & ventilation(New PK Prima Temp controlled Exhaust Fan-with thermostat + new A/C 600w HPS too & 2x 250 watt CFL's plus loads of other bits!!). I would of loved to run '3' Hydro'Ducts equally spaced under the screen, that would of knocked a big chunk offa the veg time. The other major 'bollock-up' was the screen had to be set at 17" cause i could'nt get there for a week & they happened to have a rather large growth spurt on-'typical' they were up 28" by t5he time i got to them & really had to bend them back down, 17" was the best i could do without snapping them, so we went with that!!!, Yeah i know lol, It was supposed to be 12-14" being a large Screen size-you gotta have some room to work under there! again this added at least a week to the Veg time. So if it would of been done right in the first place it would of been something nearer 4 wks of veg time, which is more like it. for most of the grow i have only been able to get there once maybe twice a week & that's caused loads of probs as i left a lot on my bruv to sort out, who's a complete novice as ive already mentioned before but fair play he's done great & i know he has learnt in a few months what took me years to suss out-hands on! & many years of studying, so he's done alright out of it! Its actually the large root matt thats pushing the plants up like that, the root-matt will end up a few inches thick. NFT tank grows can be a pain & you need to use support netting as standard or your Rockwool cubes, they will fall over from the upper weight of the top & bud growth, so using this system with a ScrOG over it was a no brainer for me at the time! TBH i am a bigger fan of DWC, imvho its the quickest most explosive way of growing MJ- Hands down & by far the best, i aint tried Aero which i believe is even quicker but harder to do & control(Water Temps etc). NFT is the stelthiest & easiest method out of the options we had so we went with that, as it had to be silent, no noisey Bubbles!
I'm playing with an idea of hybridising NFT & DWC & i call it 'BUBBLE'FLOW', its just deep trough NFT in 8-10" PVC pipe with Bubble stones or tubing set inside, Rubber stop ends with the holes for the inlet & outlet cut out real high either end, A rather decent fall to speed up the flow & return, that will help keep solutions cooler and infuse more O2 too, I'm gonna build this dude,i just gotta give it a whirl-& i think it would out do both NFT & DWC on their own! in terms of speed & ease of use-Explosive me thinks & easy to keep solution cool. Dam I'm Rabbiting on again lol, Anyway Buddy Till Next Time!.....
Peace & Be-Lucky..........Scroger'

Btw, i know ive mentioned most of this before, im just board,suppose it may help some that have missed previous posts............Laters!

 

[~Shhh~]

Hi scrogerman,

interesting thoughts on the hybrod NFT/ DWC sys.... I kinda thought that the NFT system does this already though as the roots grow down into the Rez pretty quickly and when in the rez they are essentially in a DWC/ NFT hybrid if there is enough bubbles in rez...

On another note I have experimented with no airstone and max speed pump action for quick recirculation vs airstone in rez with same water flow speed and noted not any difference in growth, rootmass or any other factor. This I have tried in the 6' x 3' Hydroduct, NFT604, NFT901 and a homemade NFT system too.

Last set of pics looked sweet btw, I like the longer cola scrogs as to me 1 longer is like 2 or 3 of the smaller cola's.

 

[Tokesome]

Heh heh, I`m expecting better things of us all next grow, it`ll be interesting to see where we`re at with it all then.

Hey ~Shhh~, how ya doing?

I started with nft growing and though I moved to coco a good few years ago, I assume things are the same in principle. My roots were always a dense mat on the nft tray, but never hanging directly into the res.

Toke ;-)

 

[~Shhh~]

That's an interesting observation Toke, everyone of my NFT grows had roots that went into the rez, Do you over hang the spreader mat just above rez water height off the tray? I used to do this to minimize the sound of water flowing back into rez... Not sure if this would be the culprit though as many I 'grew up' around on the boards of Overgrow had the same results.

Here's a pic of my last grow an NFT multiduct (no airation of rez- air stone etc, apart from water dripping back down from tray, pump set on fastest flow) Yielded roughly 0.8gpw 40 paradise feminized seeds Jacky white (lovely strain btw!) Cant find the pic of roots in multiduct

GT424 grow with roots in Rez (pic taken during rez change out)

Hope ya don't mind the pics scrogerman!

NFT or No fookin trouble as we used to refer to it a very good all round sys. I remember many used to attest to the speed of veg using straight DWC though. Might wanna consider getting those roots to drop into your NFT rez though scrogger as this would save the hassle of building another system...

 

[Tokesome]

That's an interesting observation Toke, everyone of my NFT grows had roots that went into the rez, Do you over hang the spreader mat just above rez water height off the tray? I used to do this to minimize the sound of water flowing back into rez... Not sure if this would be the culprit though as many I 'grew up' around on the boards of Overgrow had the same results.

Here's a pic of my last grow an NFT multiduct (no airation of rez- air stone etc, apart from water dripping back down from tray, pump set on fastest flow) Yielded roughly 0.8gpw 40 paradise feminized seeds Jacky white (lovely strain btw!) Cant find the pic of roots in multiduct

GT424 grow with roots in Rez (pic taken during rez change out)

http://www.icmag.com/ic/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=3303

Hope ya don't mind the pics scrogerman!

NFT or No fookin trouble as we used to refer to it a very good all round sys. I remember many used to attest to the speed of veg using straight DWC though. Might wanna consider getting those roots to drop into your NFT rez though scrogger as this would save the hassle of building another system...

I used to stop the roots reaching the res, but this is only in the area at the end of the drip tray where it falls back into the res.

I switched to coco after a bout of pythium did the rounds in a weak strain and never looked back. I`m not so sure about the speed of veg in coco compared to DWC etc, I cant go on this grow as I had some serious issues fucking badly with things. Maybe we should check this out between us on the next grows guys?

It`d be an interesting comparison with fairly dialed in set-ups.

Toke

 

[~Shhh~]

4 sure toke I'm always up for a wee bit of tinkering I am pretty sure if memnory serves correctly though that DWC veg growth rate when done correctly (rez temps in check and fast recirc) is killer!

Here is the other pic that should have shown up on other post with roots in 424 rez, nice angel hair like roots as a dewd called Krusty used to refer to em as no air stone btw

That's early veg BTW, m'be 10 days or so after xplanted onto sys

 

[Tokesome]

Yeah mate, I`d lift the mat up and tuck back the other way, I`d sometimes trim them later in the grow. Stopping the spreader mat a couple of inches from the end didn`t encourage so much root matter to go over the edge so to speak ;-)

Yeah I`d expect some differences, it`d be cool to see them fairly clearly.

Toke ;-)

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Sshhh & toke,
Yeah thats a 424 too man, Bought it like about 12 or more years ago now. Yeah i get you on the similarities, but what im suggesting in my BubbleFlow, is the roots are completely submerged as in DWC say 80-90% of them anyway! I just like the idea of having a really good fall to increase flow , with submerged roots(no tray) & Loads of Micro bubbles eminating from Long Air wands or bubble tubing. That idea is nearer DWC, but because of the fast flow rate of the solution in the Ducts, makes it like Hydro'Duct too or a Hybrid of the two, catchy name too 'BubbleFlow'+ I think it would really perform, thats what DWC lacks is a current type solution flow + Massive amounts of bubbles = Explosive Growth. Ok I admit i am a fan of the two & yip your right on the Roots hanging down into the Res, i take full advantage & my airwands are pushed right under the Roots to the back to the back of the Res! I can see roots in my res-always have in NFT, i think you can only benefit from having a mass of roots to oxygenate in ya Res,i have seen better results overall using Bubbled O2 using NFT Tanks, i wouldent atempt to do an NFT run without O2 Infused H2O chaps & i add H2O2 right through Veg-most runs anyway! love the Oxy+!!, O2 is one of the Keys to Maximum Nutrient Uptake, & we all know what this means, to me that makes it a No-Brainer, each to there own & when i get round to knocking my BubbleFlow system up, i'll come find you guys a share the results with you's! BubbleFlow just keeps popping into my head, i just have to build it now, to stop all these fookin Eureka Brain Flash Moments, you know the ones guy's!
I only read the first two posts i'm Fooked so i'll check the thread out tommoro-Edit-When i get my lazy arse outta bed at about 3pm lol! Good'Night!/Morning!
'Peace & Be-Lucky'...............Scroger...

 

[squarepush3r]

still watching this thread, but I have to call BS on Dutch Passion on their marketing for this seed. It just seems, overhyped, and a lot of marketing (almost akin to BCSeeds)

read up on the Elephant Bud fiasco of 2007/2008

 

[MeanBean]

still watching this thread, but I have to call BS on Dutch Passion on their marketing for this seed. It just seems, overhyped, and a lot of marketing (almost akin to BCSeeds)

read up on the Elephant Bud fiasco of 2007/2008

Read the article, Interesting but not really the same. It's not like this strain cost any more or less than the others. "the example in that thread cost $500 a pack o seeds"

ScroggerMan knows whats up, he's gonna let us know what he thinks. And with his OP how could ya argue?

My hopes are still up but I agree, the hype may be a bit much! And it worked for me, sucker...

Well If I don't like the grow I do with them I will plant the other 4 seeds I got, try and find that pheno before I throw in the towel.

Hoping Scrogger can point out what to look for if this day comes..

I am looking for a high yielding short indoor strain right now. Even the lower quality buds here blow away what else I can purchase.. Anyone know of a realistic known large producing plant I could pickup?? Not that I want less quality but I guess I'm just not that much of a connoisseur yet!! AND if i Could really nail what strain I needed I would say something that makes BIG BUDS, and that's why it's a high yeilder, not cause it has a lot of braches or something..



Thanks!

 

[Tokesome]

3pm, you get up a bit early mate ;-)