Double Thai Germination Problem

[RC_Colas]

Hello dubi,

I was very excited to include 15 Double Thai (ACE) seeds in my winter run along side some Thai Stick (GN Landrace Collection). I placed all seeds in 'Promix' (my general all-purpose soil) to germinate, seeds planted 1/4 " below surface and spraying occassionally to keep the top 1/2" moist.

All the Thai Stick germinated (100%) wihin 3.5 days and at day 4 I decided to investigate the Double Thai since No seeds had come up! I carefully uncovered each seed to find that all of them had some 'Blue' mold on the seed shell surface I have never come across this before and was wondering if you may have some insight to this problem? As mentioned, the exact same soil and process was used for the Double Thai and Thai Stick but with comepletly different result. I had 100% with your GT and Panama seeds last year using this method, the same I have used for 15+ years.

Any chance I received a bad seed lot and are there any Double Thai seeds available anyone, as they do not show on your website?

Sincerely

RC_Colas

 

[lost in a sea]

you shouldnt really use promix to germ seeds in or any "general all purpose soil",, unless they are cheap beans,,

the fungal and bacterial activity in potting soil is way too high along with the concentrations of nutrients throughout which is a bit peaky for little seeds if they are sat next to a rich area,,, dont get me wrong it obviously does work to a certain extent using a soil mix like that to start seeds, but you bring the odds of this happening up alot,,, ive sprouted thousands of seeds and seen this happen many times under certain circumstances,,

this doesnt mean that the seeds didnt potentially have mold spores on their shells before you placed them in the soil because that can and does happen im sure,,, but if it were me id personally blame using that soil because ive seen this happen with seeds of certain varieties doing better in too rich a germination soil whilst some couldnt get started,,

three things i would do to make it less likely this will ever happen again,,

1) put the seeds in mineral water for 2/3 days till the tap roots are out before placing in the soil, this will also help wash any spores on the seeds off,,

2) buy seedling soil for the top 3 inches of the pot/propagator, where you can carefully place the seedling in the top inch of damp soil and you only need to put a few millimeters of soil above the seedling to maintain some moisture around the seeds head (dicots in the shell obviously ) till it opens and chucks the case away,,

3) moisten the soil before you place the seedling(with tail out) in it but avoid misting or wetting the soil again for at least 3 days unless somehow the soil has already dried up which it shouldnt have,,, the seedling will have plenty of moisture already in its cells to last a week and all you are doing is upping the chances that anaerobes or mold spores will overcome the seedling anyway.

all in all its probably the soil being too rich that caused it imo from what you have said,, or just a one off bad bag of soil, ive seen many of those as well,,,

 

[RC_Colas]

Thank You Lost in a sea,

I would have been inclined to agree with you if the seeds had shown any signs of germinating, however not a single seed cracked and the chance of fungus or a hot soil mix impacting the embryo is not high.


The germination mixture used was from the same bale for both the Double Thai and Thai Stick, with the Thai Stick seeds germinating 100%...all 20 beans.

I hope that dubi may have some insight, and perhaps a resolution to my loss Perhaps these are VERY sensitive, in which case I could germinate them in straight vermiculite instead.

Cheers

RC_Colas

 

[redneck shogun]

I am surprised this method has worked so well for you for 15 years. Some seeds are going to be stubborn to germ, that's when you are forced to face with prospect of evolving your technique.

 

[lost in a sea]

the seed case only needs to open the tiniest amount and if there is already mold spore growing on the case they will get inside and thats it,,

as i said just because one lot of seeds germed in that soil doesnt mean that the double thais were strong enough to overcome the conditions,,

it could be that the seeds had spores on them,, it could be using that soil, or it could be a combination of the two and that those beans were not vigorous enough as well,,

some seeds also just get up and running much faster than others,, thats why imo its best to use seedling soil and start em in water till the tap roots are out,, if other people havent had this problem then it probaby isnt the seeds..

if i had room id pop some double thais to see,,,

 

[Rusty420]

tbh i think this guy has germed seed before, atleast a few times id bet..

 

[KITCHA]

I had a similar issue with double t and viet black approx 60% germ rates.

 

[Rusty420]

i think i had 90% with a pack of dt early in the year, it was sporadic if i remember right..i did have the same issue with banghi haze recently with 3/11 sprouting, i waited 3 weeks too(strait to soil, normal to get good germ rates with this method)..

 

[RC_Colas]

Thanks for all the replies folks

I should probably have titled the post '... Germination Question' instead of 'Problem', as there is no intent to call in to question the quality of ACE genetics. It is a biological product and so I do not expect perfection in germination rates

Rusty420 is correct, I have germinated 1000's of beans I should clarify the composition of my 'Promix' for the sake of constructive discussion and knowledge sharing, which is certainly my aim.

My ProMix = 85% Peat Moss, 8% Vermiculite (Horticultural Grade) , 7% Perlite (Horticultural Grade).

** There are not fertilizer additives and so it is fairly benign seed sowing mix for gentle embryos.


Over the years I have personally had more issues with the water soaking & paper towel methods, then the direct to soil approach as outlined by Mel Frank and Ed Rosenthal. The recommendation by 'Lost in a Sea' to avoid the use of a General All-Purpose soil mix for soil is excellent and I could not agree more In hindsight my use of the term was not reflective the mixture I use.

I look forward to dubi's insight opn the matter.

Cheers

RC_Colas

 

[lost in a sea]

ahh right im with ya,, i knew you knew your stuff rc, ive thought that many times,,, yeah that mix should have had no problems for starting seeds in at all,,, which is obviously why you use it lol,, i found the same thing with the paper towel method,,

i would now say it was more likely to be the seeds,, either a bad batch or tough little shells maybe ?

id probably want a replacement pack if i were you really based on what you've said,,, or one would be sure be nice if dubi so felt inclined

have a nice day rc bro,, happy growing

 

[RC_Colas]

Thanks my Friend, I know your advice is only aimed to help and respectful!

I sent dubi a PM and he has KINDly offered to replace my seeds. As mentioned early, Quality of ACE genetics was never in question...and there commitment to exceptional 'Customer Service' continues!!!!

ACE and crew are a Class Act in the seed business.

Many Thanks

RC_Colas

ahh right im with ya,, i knew you knew your stuff rc, ive thought that many times,,, yeah that mix should have had no problems for starting seeds in at all,,, which is obviously why you use it lol,, i found the same thing with the paper towel method,,

i would now say it was more likely to be the seeds,, either a bad batch or tough little shells maybe ?

id probably want a replacement pack if i were you really based on what you've said,,, or one would be sure be nice if dubi so felt inclined

have a nice day rc bro,, happy growing