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Don't tell the Canadian Govt you payed your debt to society

JJScorpio

Thunderstruck
ICMag Donor
Veteran
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2008-01-21-canada-border_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Hail to the United Soviet Socialist Republic of Canada.

By Alan Gomez, USA TODAY
Americans are finding it increasingly difficult to get into Canada, as border agents with better access to American criminal databases are turning people back for offenses ranging from assault to drunken driving to shoplifting.
Canada has had better access to criminal records since the Sept. 11 terror attacks but lawyers say they are now using the records more aggressively.

"There has been some changes in procedures," says Enrico Caruso, a Detroit-based immigration lawyer who says he has received more complaints in recent months from Americans shut out for old non-violent offenses.

"There's more questions being asked at the point of entry," he says.

Americans took nearly 44 million trips to Canada in 2000, according to Canada Statistics, the federal government's statistical agency. Fewer than 29 million made the trip in 2006, the last year for which figures were available.

FIND MORE STORIES IN: Americans | Canadian | Canada | DUI | David Cohen
Caruso says one reason for the drop in visitors is concern among some Americans that Canada will stop them because of their past.

"It is absolutely the case," he says. "An indiscretion can be anything from a DUI to when you were 18 and scalped tickets to a Red Wings game."

The Canadian Consulate General's office says almost all convictions can bar you from entry and improved sharing of criminal databases have made it easier for Canadian border agents to identify Americans with a criminal past.

Canada Border Services spokesperson Derek Mellon says there has been no change in the line of questioning asked by his agents. And he says the number of Americans turned away is small. In fiscal year 2006, he says fewer than 6,000 people were turned away.

Mellon said his agency's aim is to ensure the safety of Canadians.

"That's the reality of a post-9/11 world," he said. "When people are coming to the country they have to know that there's regulations."

Randy Kutter, a firefighter from Princeton, Minn., had been taking fishing trips to Canada his entire life. But Canadian border agents barred him in 2005 because of two DUI convictions in the 1980s.

"I couldn't fault any nation for trying to protect their borders," Kutter said. "I think that people who have paid their debt to society need to be forgiven at some point."

Although the United States has similar access to Canadian records the policy here does not appear to be as stringent. Michael Friel, a spokesman with U.S. Customs and Border Protection, says convictions for crimes like DUI, simple assault, disorderly conduct and breaking and entering do not make a person inadmissible to the United States.

David Cohen, a Montreal-based immigration attorney for 25 years, says that for the first time more than half of his calls in 2007 have come from Americans surprised after being turned back at the border.

He said the big difference has been a question asked more frequently of visitors: "Do you have any criminal offenses?"

"Normally, that isn't a question that would be asked to U.S. residents coming into Canada," Cohen says. "It was kind of on the honor system."
 
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Verite

My little pony.. my little pony
Veteran
They keep out the DUI people so they can advertise only Canadian drunks drive our roads.
 
G

Guest

I dont know about that.We let Canadian truckers in with minor violations and always have,they always have not.Even before 9/11 truckers with minor violations would be turned away at the border.Its never been that way coming in.Just setting the record straight nothing negative they are trying to protect their people..with an added little jab in the ribs to their brothers and sisters below lol
 
G

Guest

They have a thing about letting American attorneys in also though I must say I cant blame them for that
 

HCSmyth

Member
Many times at the border crossing in Niagara Falls the Canucks do not even bother to ask for ID. This was the case when I went up there this past fall. Sometimes they do though, sometimes they just ask for the drivers and going back the US agents always seem to ask for everyone's ID in the car.

They both suck pretty equally and the Canucks do try to act just as tough at the border as their US counter parts. The Canucks at the border usually like to ask if you are bringing any guns, weapons, or even pepper spray (what fags!) into their communist Shangri La of Canada. While the Americans just run your ID, pull everything about you including your dental records and take about 5000 angles of video footage of you and your car. They always like to ask questions about the registration status of your car (queers!).
 

swampdank

Pull my finger
Veteran
that sux. so now i cant get into canada cuz i have a simple possesion conviction even though simple possesion is far less criminal in canada? i call BS!
 

Dr Dog

Sharks have a week dedicated to me
Veteran
HCSmyth said:
Canucks do try to act just as tough at the border as their US counter parts. The Canucks at the border usually like to ask if you are bringing any guns, weapons, or even pepper spray (what fags!) into their communist Shangri La of Canada. .


That does not sound like you had a good time
I live in Niagara and if you met me you would know why they ask those questions

But on to the OP, I have been searched at border 3 times crossing into states.
I have been held for interrogation once during a hockey game I was there for, missed 2 hours of it, when the let me go, I just came home, why bother now
My gf was interrogated our last trip over.
They seem awfully interested in what I do for a living, I tell them, and they always ask what's that? I just told you!

I have no criminal record, I am not wanted by any agency foreign or domestic, so why the issues everytime I go over? because they can.

It is easier for me to go to Europe than it is our great open border.
 

JJScorpio

Thunderstruck
ICMag Donor
Veteran
It's ok until they ask you and find out you have convictions. Then they put your name into the computer that you have been told not to enter Canada and if you try and get caught you're charged with a crime. They also give you the information to send 1000 dollars and an application where you may or may not be given permission to come back into Canada.
 

HCSmyth

Member
Dr Dog said:
That does not sound like you had a good time
I live in Niagara and if you met me you would know why they ask those questions

No, I had a fine time once I got there. And don't get me wrong both US and Canuck agents are asshats. I, knock on wood, have never had a real problem other than rude-agents playing 20 questions with me for a few minutes. I just find they each like to ask different intrusive questions in a similar manner.

HeadyPete said:
Communist Shangri La? What decade are you in, man?

And Pete, I know our political beliefs may be just a bit, bit different but I personally think that their socialized medicine and heavy restrictions on firearms are pretty "pinko".

See here in America, in the ever dwindling 49 states (The New Socialist Republic of California is no longer a state), you can buy as many different kinds of guns as you want and if you can not afford to pay for expensive medical procedures you are sh*t out of luck. Just like it should be.
 
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HeadyPete

Take Five...
Veteran
Yah, piece of mind getting the medical attention you need when you need it with your tax dollars, as opposed to Enron or Halliburton stealing them, or an HMO exec deciding if your life is worth spending their dollars on for treatment, that's pretty out there, man.....

I don't know what you are talking about with gun restrictions....no you can't buy a bazooka or some kind of stupid "mow em all down" assault weapon, but have you ever been to a gun shop in Canada? I don't see any shortage of guns, nor have I heard any of my hunting friends complain that, "gosh darn it, I just can't gets me enough guns".....

Really though, you speak the language of the conditioned "good citizen", bad propaganda, looking out for commies and islamofascists and various other boogeymen under the bed and just around the next corner.

From an outside perspective, it's pretty freaking hilarious, if not kind of sad.

I hope you have lots of dough if god forbid one day you or your family need some of that expensive medical. I'd hate to see you shit out of luck.
 
G

Guest

Debt to society & credibility are two totally different things
You pay back your debt, sure
But once you lose your credibility, now that's hard to gain back once lost

For example - you can have a record that is long and even though you've "paid your debt to society" your credibility is forever altered and no judge is going to consider you to be as credible as you would be without a record.
 

HCSmyth

Member
HeadyPete said:
Yah, piece of mind getting the medical attention you need when you need it with your tax dollars, as opposed to Enron or Halliburton stealing them, or an HMO exec deciding if your life is worth spending their dollars on for treatment, that's pretty out there, man.....

I don't know what you are talking about with gun restrictions....no you can't buy a bazooka or some kind of stupid "mow em all down" assault weapon, but have you ever been to a gun shop in Canada? I don't see any shortage of guns, nor have I heard any of my hunting friends complain that, "gosh darn it, I just can't gets me enough guns".....

Really though, you speak the language of the conditioned "good citizen", bad propaganda, looking out for commies and islamofascists and various other boogeymen under the bed and just around the next corner.

From an outside perspective, it's pretty freaking hilarious, if not kind of sad.

I hope you have lots of dough if god forbid one day you or your family need some of that expensive medical. I'd hate to see you shit out of luck.

I am glad you found it pretty freaking hilarious because I was half-kidding and half-serious in my comments. Simple fact is this; YOU MUST PAY FOR MEDICAL SERVICES, just like any other service. There is no magic wand that big government can wave and solve the state of medical care in our society. Medical insurance can do this best, if the proper reforms are made, but that is another issue for another thread!

As for the guns, no I am not sure either about Canada’s laws. They probably are less restrictive then the C.S.S.R. (California's Soviet Style Republic)(I am kind of joking)(But kind of not joking at the same time). In the C.S.S.R. you can no longer buy a new semi-auto rifle with a detachable magazine. I was reading about this new Ruger .44 mag pistol the other day and it said it is not California legal. Seems pretty restrictive to me! But I think from what I have heard Canada’s gun laws are closer to California’s gun laws than say they are to Virginia or Alabama’s gun laws.

See I have things that are important to me. I see were this country is headed and it is away from some of the things I hold dear. This has been happening throughout my adult life. What can I do other than laugh? So don't pigeonhole me, because you do not really know me. Just like I do not really know you.

So, why turn this thread into another circle jerk leftwing vs. rightwing argument? I have a vision of the kind of society I would like to live in that I would like to see us move towards. Both left and right wing forces in both political parties often move against this vision. But I will admit that there are a couple of things about Canada that is better than the US. And as far as the border agents go, they are both asshats.
 

HuffAndPuff

Active member
A buddy of mine got popped about 10 years back for slinging some trees at his state university. Not a huge deal... they kicked him out of school, the charge was dropped to simple possession, he paid a fine and might have gotten some probation or some bullshit. Fast forward 4 years to New Year's 2002.... Me, him, and 10 other people caravanned it up to Montreal. They take all our ID's and it was fine till they ran his. Apparently, he was not allowed in because of the bust.

Now, I dunno if this next part is sketchy or not, but... The border guard sees our predicament and tells us that there is an option to pay a $250 fine and it basically is a one-time only pass to get in. So, we paid the mordida (or should that be Nordida?) and ripped it up like some real Quebequois...

On several other occasions, I have been obviously hammered, reeking of pot and with red eyes, and not had any problems. In fact, that is how I have looked every time I've been to Canada. You shoulda seen me on the trips home!

And guess what? The Border patrol on our side ALWAYS gives me way more shit coming home. I feel like telling them Fuck you, Buddy! I'm coming HOME now, don't you get it? The minute you see my passport you should roll out a fucking red carpet. Go 'Patrol' the cars with Canadian plates if you want, but lemme in and make it snappy.

I honestly have no problems with how Canada chooses to admit or deny people entry. It's their choice, and their loss. Easy for me to say, I know. Mind you, I say it also because it IS Canada, after all, and at the end of the day, who really gives a shit. Plus, if you care that much, jumping the US/Canadian border ain't rocket science. I've done it twice, and totally accidentally both times. If we were talking about travel to europe or jamaica or places I care about, it would be a whole different story.

Just tell the Canadian border guard you've come to spend lots of their monopoly money in the city's finest strip clubs. They love that shit. I had one of them convinced to quit his job as the border patrol guy and go logging for a summer, but I digest....

HuffAndPuff
 

HCSmyth

Member
^Wow, I would not figured thier data base would have been that efficient back in 2002 to catch him. Stay out of the system any way you can is always the best option.
 

HuffAndPuff

Active member
I know, right? We were all stunned, too. I mean, yeah it was post 9/11 and all, but we hadn't heard about those rules/their enforcement... I was actually more surprised that they weren't letting the kid in (a resident of a border state) on account of what would have appeared to be a simple misdemeanor possession charge. I mean, come on... I thought Canasia was like one huge cannabis plantation! Christ, what do ya wanna bet the weed he got caught with was Canadian?

I always assume that whatever makes it on your record by way of a guilty/nolo plea can be seen by anyone that cares to look. Furthermore, You can very easily be found not guilty, but due to any number of potential clerk errors, that finding could be incorrectly filed/recorded. Always double check your record 6 weeks or so following any legal trouble, just to make sure they did what they were supposed to...
 

Verite

My little pony.. my little pony
Veteran
" I hope you know this will be going down on your permanent record. "

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When they ask you if you have anything to declare tell them your weiner smells like canadian beaver. That always amuses them.
 
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