Does bud itself need direct light? Why?

[vitamingreeninc]

So my take on what you are saying is that it is beneficial to defoiliate in veg, it forces the plant to produce new vegetation, and therefore grow larger roots...and I also take from what you are saying abit the flowering could be delayed because of the older leaves, so does that mean you believe a defoliation of 25-35%~ would help transisition the plant to flower in a shorter amount of time?

In general, it is considered most important that the plant be healthy for it to produce high THC levels. The genotype of the plant, a result of seed selection, is the primary factor which determines the THC levels. After that, the provision of adequate organic nutrients, water, sunlight, fresh air, growing space, and time for maturation seems to be the key to producing high-THC Cannabis in all circumstances. Stress resulting from inadequacies in the environment limits the true expression of phenotype and cannabinoid potential. Cannabis finds a normal adaptive defense in the production of THC laden resins, and it seems logical that a healthy plant is best able to raise this defense. Forcing plants to produce is a perverse ideal and alien to the principles of organic agriculture. Plants are not machines that can be worked faster and harder to produce more. The life processes of the plant rely on delicate natural balances aimed at the ultimate survival of the plant until it reproduces. The most a Cannabis cultivator or researcher can expect to do is provide all the requisites for healthy growth and guide the plant until it matures.
Flowering in Cannabis may be forced or accelerated by many different techniques. This does not mean that THC production is forced, only that the time before and during flowering is shortened and flowers are produced rapidly. Most techniques involve the deprivation of light during the long days of summer to promote early floral induction and sexual differentiation. This is sometimes done by moving the plants inside a completely dark structure for 12 hours of each 24-hour day until the floral clusters are mature. This stimulates an autumn light cycle and promotes flowering at any time of the year. In the field, covers may be made to block out the sun for a few hours at sunrise or sunset, and these are used to cover small plants. Photoperiod alteration is most easily accomplished in a greenhouse, where blackout curtains are easily rolled over the plants. Drug Cannabis production requires 11-12 hours of continuous darkness to induce flowering and at least 10 hours of light for adequate THC production (Valle et al. 1978). In a greenhouse, supplemental lighting need be used only to extend daylength, while the sun supplies the energy needed for growth and THC biosynthesis. It is not known why at least 10 hours (and preferably 12 or 13 hours) of light are needed for high THC production. This is not dependent on accumulated solar energy since light responses can be activated and THC production increased with only a 40-watt bulb. A reasonable theory is that a light-sensitive pigment in the plant (possibly phytochrome) acts as a switch, causing the plant to follow the flowering cycle. THC production is probably associated with the induction of flowering resulting from the photoperiod change.
Cool night temperatures seem to promote flowering in plants that have previously differentiated sexually. Extended cold periods, however, cause metabolic processes to slow and maturation to cease. Most temperate Cannabis strains are sensitive to many of the signs of an approaching fall season and respond by beginning to flower. In contrast, strains from tropical areas, such as Thailand, often seem unresponsive to any signs of fall and never speed up development.
Contrary to popular thought, planting Cannabis strains later in the season in temperate latitudes may actually promote earlier flowering. Most cultivators believe that planting early gives the plant plenty of time to flower and it will finish earlier. This is often not true. Seedlings started in February or March grow for 4-5 months of increasing photoperiod before the days begin to get shorter following the solstice in June. Huge vegetative plants grow and may form floral inhibitors during the months of long photo-period. When the days begin to get shorter, these older plants may be reluctant to flower because of the floral inhibitors formed in the pre-floral leaves. Since floral cluster formation takes 6-10 weeks, the initial delay in flowering could push the harvest date into November or December. Cannabis started during the short days of December or January will often differentiate sex by March or April. Usually these plants form few floral clusters and rejuvenate for the long season ahead. No increased potency has been noticed in old rejuvenated plants. Plants started in late June or early July, after the summer solstice, are exposed only to days of decreasing photoperiod. When old enough they begin flowering immediately, possibly because they haven’t built up as many long-day floral inhibitors. They begin the 6-10 week floral period with plenty of time to finish during the warmer days of October. These later plantings yield smaller plants because they have a shorter vegetative cycle. This may prove an advantage. in greenhouse research, where it is common for plants to grow far too large for easy handling before they begin to flower. Late plantings after the summer solstice receive short inductive photoperiods almost immediately. However, flowering is delayed into September since the plant must grow before it is old enough to flower. Although flowering is delayed, the small plants rapidly produce copious quantities of flowers in a final effort to reproduce.

 

[Infinitesimal]

According to my botanist dad, he believes flowers receive energy from the closest leaf, the smaller the petiole, the faster the energy gets there (I paraphrase somewhat )

aside from cannabis flowers being able to perform photosynthesis themselves... exactly...

which would be the "sugar" or "trim" leaves, if people looked at a nug close enough they would see it has the same fractal pattern as the plant itself producing nodes which grow the smaller sugar leaves at 90 degree angles and clusters of calyx at 45 degree angles from the stem in the middle of the bud. those leaves are the ones "feeding" the flower growth and development.

 

[Infinitesimal]

Does a bud have a stomata? Maybe the little sugar leaves do...but how efficient are they at taking in co2? And what do you need to create sugar? I keep every single fan leaf I can.

I also keep all leaves I can, but remove any necessary to get better light penetration to the flowers, wether indoor or out.

yes carbon fixation is part of photosynthesis and the production of sugars... requiring stomata

that is a good question, regarding buds and stomata...

I would guess every part of the epidermis has stomata and so would cannabis flowers, especially since cannabis calyx is just a modified leaf cell. modified via changes in DNA transcription and mRNA translation resulting in differentiated tissues.

 

[Heusinomics]

This is a great discussion and a Long standing debate.
Mostly because of the differences in garden conditions. Growers skill and oc genetic expression.
I think we are getting to the answer w the realization that sugar leaves contribute signifagently to the growth of buds. Possibly much more efficiently than fans simply bc of the "energy" needed to move those sugars around.

I jst hav a lil to add.
There is a big relation to timing of fan removal and flower stage!
Removing leaf wile in veg is typically bad. Except w huge indica leafs wich block nodes/branch tips. But the fans seem less nessicaty in flower. AFTER STRECH AND TRANSITION once the buds are partially formed. There may well b more biomass of sugar leaf to soak up n deliver that energy. Fans can come off and let the light hit buds but not befor there is enough plant do relpace what they were adding.

 

[milkyjoe]

For the record I believe fan leaves photosynthesize far better than sugar leaves provided they are still healthy. If you are providing decent mineral levels energy transfer is not an issue...in fact 30% of sugar will be given away to feed microbes. For a healthy plant it ain't no thing to tranfer energy.

I will shade a bud with a fan leaf before the other way around. Maximum energy input into the plant is what I want. In fact I keep a close watch on Zn levels to make sure my fan leaf is as big as possible.

 

[Baron Greenback]

That's interesting milkyjoe - so you're almost aiming for fan leaf coverage giving you maximum surface area for photosynthesis?
How do you find development of lower bud sites? Do you train or defoliate later? What do you consider to be a fan leaf past its best before date?
Personally I like a bit of a defoliation so heusinomics point about when to start is well worth a go for me.
Very much each to their own, that's what makes this so interesting

 

[milkyjoe]

Totally agree to each his own...buy the ticket, take the ride.

My goal is waxy green fan leaf within a week of harvest. So goal...not always reality...is never remove a single fan leaf period. Maximizing energy...managing photosynthesis is what I see as my job.

Having said that you cannot allow nitrate to accumulate in those green leaves or taste will be an issue. I use several tricks...but associative diazotropes are my major source of N. Look up the work of dr christine jonesfor an explanation or even hugh lovel

 

[milkyjoe]

Oh yea...I do trim some bud sites out. I have never been able to get enough energy into the plant to fill every bud equally. But I leave the fan leaf itself

 

[Redrum92]

^now that is interesting. I've never heard of actually trimming budsites to benefit the bigger ones. Anyone else do this?

Sure slightly off topic but I think it relates to the discussion definitely e.g. "circumstantial evidence"

 

[Baron Greenback]

Again, there could be something in it. A tree surgeon I know has always extolled the virtues of pallisaded fruit trees, growth is focused in smaller areas providing more concentrated fruiting areas.
Might be an interesting experiment for indoors, I'd be inclined to leave them to it outdoors though.

 

[DrFever]

If were taking pruning ask most licensed arborists and they will tell you spring or fall after harvest not in middle or when fruit set begins

 

[milkyjoe]

Yea...I don't wait for actual bud to form. I cut the suckers before flowering...but leave the fan leaf attached to the site. If you wait for bud you have wasted that energy

 

[DrFever]

I guess one can look at outdoor vs indoor i mean for instance my lower bud sites on my out door plant right now are same size as the ones on very top there is no difference.... even deep inside the plant ..
But indoor one can easily notice or take clones up to second week and not have lower bud sites formed yet .... so light penetration or spectrum can be a influence

 

[milkyjoe]

Obviously all potential energy comes from the light...mo light is mo energy period. But the principle is the same for me indo or out. Leave every single fan leaf...trim more suckers indo

 

[ChasingGreen]

Obviously all potential energy comes from the light...mo light is mo energy period. But the principle is the same for me indo or out. Leave every single fan leaf...trim more suckers indo

So what about when a big fan is blocking other fans completely below it?

 

[milkyjoe]

I leave them both...I wish I had so many fan leaves that some got totally blocked...never seen it

 

[bobblehead]

If a fan leaf is completely blocked it stops producing chlorophyll, turns yellow, and dies.... almost as if the plant is pruning itself... no need to interfere.

 

[milkyjoe]

I think what happens much more often is people do not get enough minetals in the plant. When that happens mobile elements are pulled from the lower fans and that keeps the fans from being able to photosynthesize. If you keep sap pH up to 6.4 that does not happen. The sectet, of course, is keeping minerals up without over doing nitrate

 

[bobblehead]

I think what happens much more often is people do not get enough minetals in the plant. When that happens mobile elements are pulled from the lower fans and that keeps the fans from being able to photosynthesize. If you keep sap pH up to 6.4 that does not happen. The sectet, of course, is keeping minerals up without over doing nitrate

I agree with that... but if you look under my scrog right now there are lots of dead leaves that got shaded out. I only pruned bud sites, tried to leave as many leaves as possible. With your growing style I can see how this doesn't happen with your plants.

 

[Pumpkin]

pruning like this is better than

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pruning like this indoors

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because the leaves are closer to the light, they are fresh and work harder.

Plants will naturally prune themselves this way in nature as well.

Buds and bud leaves do a poor job of photosynthesis.

No science here, just observation and my 2 cents.

I'm also a fan of fan leaves and try to leave most of them on.