MedUser420
Active member
Do I need Dolomite lime w/fox farms ocean forest ,coco coir and perlite mix? What would the proper ph be for the nutes?
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Do I need dolomite lime w/FFOF and coco?
- Thread starter MedUser420
- Start date
Yes, especially if you are using coco as part of your mix.
It's not for ph balance because coco is self buffering and neutral but coc tends to bind calcium and magnesium in it's food web, if you check coco specific nutes they have high levels of calcium and magnesium because they know this to be true ( eg. Canna nutes).
The FF is very rich and a great soil, it could benefit from the ph balancing of the medium with d.lime.
It really can't do any harm, I used 2TBS per gallon of dolomite lime when I used coco and it worked fine.
Any idea on the proportion of each element?
I suggest 40% soil, 40% coco, and 20% perlite, coco retains alot of oxygen at the rootzone and dries out faster than regular peat and perlite mixes.
Suby
It's not for ph balance because coco is self buffering and neutral but coc tends to bind calcium and magnesium in it's food web, if you check coco specific nutes they have high levels of calcium and magnesium because they know this to be true ( eg. Canna nutes).
The FF is very rich and a great soil, it could benefit from the ph balancing of the medium with d.lime.
It really can't do any harm, I used 2TBS per gallon of dolomite lime when I used coco and it worked fine.
Any idea on the proportion of each element?
I suggest 40% soil, 40% coco, and 20% perlite, coco retains alot of oxygen at the rootzone and dries out faster than regular peat and perlite mixes.
Suby
If your fertilizer water contains alot of calcium and magnesium, I might not lime. This would be overkill on the cal/mag. You can depend on the fertilizer water to keep the ph in proper range. Just adjust its ph after mixing. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31294&highlight=sulfuric+acid Your soil mixture ph will gradually drift toward the fert water ph.
You can overdo cal/mag. Too much can lead to a deficiency of potassium. All three compete with each other. (Ideally, you want potassium to calcium 1.5-2:1 and calcium to magnesium 3-4:1) Also, there is the chance of micronutient deficiencys like too much magnesium = manganese deficiency and too much calcium = boron deficiency
You can overdo cal/mag. Too much can lead to a deficiency of potassium. All three compete with each other. (Ideally, you want potassium to calcium 1.5-2:1 and calcium to magnesium 3-4:1) Also, there is the chance of micronutient deficiencys like too much magnesium = manganese deficiency and too much calcium = boron deficiency
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There is no way in a 40% coco mixture he will overdo the cal and mag.
I've used these mixes before and you have to supplement with large doses of Botanicare calmag if using an ordinary fert like PBPro or FF, etc.
When you blend a coco mix with soil then you can back off the calcium and magnesium but it will still require more Ca and Mg.
Besides D lime is too slow release to affect nutrient balance to the point of lockout.
I've used these mixes before and you have to supplement with large doses of Botanicare calmag if using an ordinary fert like PBPro or FF, etc.
When you blend a coco mix with soil then you can back off the calcium and magnesium but it will still require more Ca and Mg.
Besides D lime is too slow release to affect nutrient balance to the point of lockout.
MedUser420
Active member
so when i water the plants with nutirents, waht ph should be the nutrients? I have been adjusting the ph to 6-6.3
V
vonforne
sproutco, im using FFOF now and the ph is adjusted in the mixture. i added DL to some of my pots and now the ph is about 6.8/6.9. i need to lower now. the other pots are adjusting themselves...are running about 6.4. i didnt read the bag before i added lime. stupid me. i read everything at the grocery store for me i need to do the same for them.
so i would not add the DL. if the ph needs to be adjusted i'd add to the water mixture and adjust there. my 2 cents
so i would not add the DL. if the ph needs to be adjusted i'd add to the water mixture and adjust there. my 2 cents
MedUser420
Active member
sproutco said:
you think 6.5-6.7 ph is too high?
my nutes are
3/4 strength pbp for soil,
1/4 strength floranova bloom,
molasses,
high phos bat guano,
Advance nutrients voodoo juice
I usually bubble/brew the mixture in a 5 gallon jug for 24 hrs. Should I add cal/mag?
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At that high a ph, micronutrients become insoluble. Phosphorus becomes less available to plants. At ph 6, the micro's are soluble but not too low that they are toxic. Also, cal/mag is available still at this ph. At lower ph's cal/mag becomes less available. Also, the micronutrient molybdenum is less available.
You should only add the cal/mag to your nutrient solution if it is not already in your fertillizer. I think it is probably already in your fert. If you add more dolomite lime to the soil like suby is suggesting, then don't add cal/mag in the water because it would not really be needed. Sometimes even with dolomite in the soil, I might add cal/mag to my water that does not contain it already every third or fourth time I fert.
Since your an organic grower, you can use white vinegar to lower the "tea" ph instead of sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid, etc...
You should only add the cal/mag to your nutrient solution if it is not already in your fertillizer. I think it is probably already in your fert. If you add more dolomite lime to the soil like suby is suggesting, then don't add cal/mag in the water because it would not really be needed. Sometimes even with dolomite in the soil, I might add cal/mag to my water that does not contain it already every third or fourth time I fert.
Since your an organic grower, you can use white vinegar to lower the "tea" ph instead of sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid, etc...
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That's right. You don't want to really lime a soil that already has lime in it. You adjust the ph of the fertilizer water after mixing. The soil ph if different will gradually drift toward this ph. If you find that this is not working to lower soil ph especially with the pots that are close to 7 ph, you might try applying powdered sulfur to the top of the pot. I think I would use about 1/3 teaspoon (2ml) to a 6 inch pot (15cm). Ph will drop .5 to 1 ph point.vonforne said:
V
vonforne
great thanks sproutco. right now im going to use a white distilled vinegar in my next watering. what ratio should i use for 1 gal? vinegar is kind of mild...about 3 -5oz per gallon?
thats all i have now and i live way out in nowhere land
thats all i have now and i live way out in nowhere land
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How much vinegar to add depends on how buffered your fertilizer water is to a certain ph. If it is buffered alot (resists change) then you have to add more vinegar than if weakly buffered. You will have to titrate/experiment with how much to add. Add a small amount and test ph. Add more gradually till you reach the right ph. Remember how much you had to use so you can repeat easily the next time if you used the exact same fertilizer strength/recipe.
V
vonforne
ok great. thanks sproutco. i will try that tonight and check in the morning.
Here is a couple of ways to test your soil ph to find out what is going on: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=32760
If your growing with PBPro then you will definately need the calmag if you don't use the dolomite, I used the PBP line in coco before and calmag is essential to make it work, PBP product are self buffered and contain alot of humic acids so adjusting your nutrient level ph isn't required.
The FF may have enough lime in it but a soil ph near 7 and slightly under is fine, nutrients are still widely available and ph adjust with vinegar is a waste of time, it breaks down within the first day, anyone whose tried to adjust a hydro setup with vinegar and measures ph knows this for sure, it's better than nothing.
The coco will require a ph adjustment in pure form because it is inert but peat is high in humus and humics so you'll get little ph sway from the nutrients that will really make a diffirence, just refer to the chart.
Sub's
The FF may have enough lime in it but a soil ph near 7 and slightly under is fine, nutrients are still widely available and ph adjust with vinegar is a waste of time, it breaks down within the first day, anyone whose tried to adjust a hydro setup with vinegar and measures ph knows this for sure, it's better than nothing.
The coco will require a ph adjustment in pure form because it is inert but peat is high in humus and humics so you'll get little ph sway from the nutrients that will really make a diffirence, just refer to the chart.
Sub's
I think your ph chart more closely follows what is going on in the soil outdoors. Since the bulk of his soil mix is inert ingredients like perlite and coco, I think the optimum ph more closely follows hydro. 5.6-6.2 in soilless mixes is optimum. Here is a ph chart showing optimum levels in hydro/soilless mix and also mineral soils outdoors. Click on it to enlarge:
Sorry but coco is used alot like soil or peat based soiless mix, it's practically the same thing and only requires extra Ca and Mg, otherwise it's no diffirent nute wise that growing in organic soil, PBPro is an organc blend will buffer this medium fine.
There are alot of mediums out there but essentially a medium like coco is not hydro unless setup as a starer medium and the roots are in water, even a recirc. system with coco is more like a soil grow than a hydro setup.
Besides indoor or outdoor soil is soil and roots interact the same with soil elements.
MedUser test your ph after mixing the nutes, with the PBPro you'll notice they fall within a more than acceptable range if used properly at 1/2 strength, add liquid Karma to the mix and you'll do fine with or without the lime, the Botanicare line is complete so don't cocktail too much or fiddle with boosters, compost teas work nicely to boost naturally.
If you want more insight into coco grows look up LicenseTo Krill on PlanetGanja, he has a nice recipe and a whole forum devoted to coco, great info there.
S
There are alot of mediums out there but essentially a medium like coco is not hydro unless setup as a starer medium and the roots are in water, even a recirc. system with coco is more like a soil grow than a hydro setup.
Besides indoor or outdoor soil is soil and roots interact the same with soil elements.
MedUser test your ph after mixing the nutes, with the PBPro you'll notice they fall within a more than acceptable range if used properly at 1/2 strength, add liquid Karma to the mix and you'll do fine with or without the lime, the Botanicare line is complete so don't cocktail too much or fiddle with boosters, compost teas work nicely to boost naturally.
If you want more insight into coco grows look up LicenseTo Krill on PlanetGanja, he has a nice recipe and a whole forum devoted to coco, great info there.
S
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vonforne
i went to the hydro store today and bought a kit of PH up @ down w/ a test kit included. kind of like a pool tester. the soil was at 6.8 or.9 and i added the adjusted water(about 5.5) i did not test run off but used the rapitest probe(best i have right now) it is reading the same but i have to wait a day or so and i will check it again. i will slowly lower the ph to about 6.4 to 6.2 and try and hold steady.
sorry about the intrusion Meduser but you are in a similar posotion as me and was just trying to fix it. thanks for all the great advise guys or gals.
sorry about the intrusion Meduser but you are in a similar posotion as me and was just trying to fix it. thanks for all the great advise guys or gals.
