Distinguished and Nurtured Kind

[dank.frank]

DopeyMcSmoker - I turned the lights back down to about 60% and raised them about another 4" or so - which is legit all the room they had to spare. I'm hoping it makes a bit of a difference. I'm thinking the ideal distance is probably some where about 22"-28". The other thing I could have done differently this round to prevent some of this, is perhaps turning the light up to a higher level earlier in flower to prevent a bit of the stretch. Otherwise, I'm going to figure it out.

genetic freaked - Not sure what Snomoji is going to do at this point. It seems to be a tad bit behind the fam95 - not really sure. She's starting to put on some frost though.

I do have a nutrient tea brewing - it's a mix of EWC, kelp meal, sul-po-mag, fertoz calcium phosphate, high p bat guano, humic/fulvic acids. I'm going to leave it alone brewing for a couple of days. It's a just in case sort of deal. Not really one to make teas. They stink. I'll add Mammoth P to this before applying it to the soil. They are looking too stressed for just past 4 weeks. I don't like it.



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

41 possible viable seeds from the Shoe Skunk/NL x M39. Put into the vault for now. These are special. Don't want to waste them.

I've been in a sort of back and forth conversation with Mars Hydro Led about testing a new light. I'm sure I'll hear back in a couple days with there decision and I'll announce how I'm going to go forward with this garden...the possibility of a new light, alters my plans and potentially my footprint for this expansion.

The massive increase in the price of lumber has caused me to sort of hesitate and redesign things as well. After taking into careful consideration a lengthy conversation with gmanwho - I'm sort of redesigning the build with different materials to avoid some of that increased expenditure.

Either way, the goal is to have around 1kw of LED running in one room...



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

Top Dawg Seeds FAM95 #2. Round 2. 2.5' x 5' with 2 x Mars Hydro LED SP3000. Day 38.

You can clearly see the impact of the deficiency on the upper fan leaves in the canopy. The aggressive progression seems to have been slowed to a mere crawl now after a couple feedings with a nutrient tea. It's not ever going to be perfect, trying to play catch up in soil - but it'll be okay in the long run.



dank.Frank

 

[antheis]

...
Doc D Seeds:

2 packs - Bandaid Haze f1 no.7 x (A5 Haze/Thai bx)
...

dank.Frank

you trying to see how those west coast boys did on their version of piff?
all i know is that it's pretty damn popular and sought after.

 

[razor ridge]

Top Dawg Seeds FAM95 #2. Round 2. 2.5' x 5' with 2 x Mars Hydro LED SP3000. Day 38.



You can clearly see the impact of the deficiency on the upper fan leaves in the canopy. The aggressive progression seems to have been slowed to a mere crawl now after a couple feedings with a nutrient tea. It's not ever going to be perfect, trying to play catch up in soil - but it'll be okay in the long run.



dank.Frank

looks exactly like the issue Ive been having

 

[thailer]

i know lots of people are progressing towards the LEDs but i often see people experience similar problems due to the intensity i'm told. it makes me really hesitate to lose my old school lights.

 

[flylowgethigh]

The month I put my plants outside to finish veg, is way better than the time in the tents under LED.

 

[dank.frank]

GET MO - Yeah. I always try to pay it forward. Pretty sure I told you I was going to share half of all you passed to me - to keep the spirit of the gift alive. And well - what do you know. That GMO x GG4 Bx7 - is just a stunning plant. From what I understand, the Sureshot is just as nice - just doesn't quite have the name recognition, even though it's ingredients do. I can't wait to run a couple of those in my own room - it's obvious there is fire in your work. Nothing but respect, brother! I appreciate all you do. Just know, I've set something in motion to take it one step further and send it back to you - a bit different. Always exciting when a new diamond surfaces! You better believe I'm about to treat that GMOGG4 like a queen and give her all the space she wants...to be continued...

thailer - Hey! I appreciate the good vibes. I'd suggest you go ahead and take the risk on some LEDs. I'm not done with CMH - I love those little 315w Growers Choice units - and they'll see some action again eventually. However. There is a lot to be said about LED - especially if you live in a warmer region. In colder regions, I can see running HID or mixed LED/HID during the winter to minimize potential heating costs. That being said, LED tech has arrived and while it has a learning curve, it's no different than anything else new. Figure it out. Adjust. Adapt. Improve.

druida.420 - I haven't noticed the stench of Mammoth P to be all that unbearable. Maybe it's because I'm used to the reek of organic crap (literally).

antheis - To be honest, it was a totally random thing. I just happen to have some Karma Genetics BH7 x A5 fems. That information makes that purchase sort of an obvious choice to randomly acquire. It provides me a male from the core stock which allows me to do something more than find a great clone. From what I hear, it's some legitimate modern day grail level haze work. I'm not really a haze head and it's not something I have a mass of experience with - but I'm excited to be exploring such a direction with such an epic gene pool at my disposal. I also have A5 s1's and I imagine I'll likely use a male from the Shoe Skunk/NL x M39 to which ever plant I keep for the sole purpose of the historical significance of such a pairing - Skunk/NL/Haze. That's the base gene pool for a lot of great cannabis.

razor ridge - That's why I was asking you about it in chat the other day. I figured you and I were experiencing the same thing. I honestly think it's the result of lighting intensity driving the plants demands. In my case the issue is the result of three primary factors right now:

1. I did not reamend the soil bed in between the last round and this round. I didn't quite get the fade I wanted last round, even on the 12wk #5 and felt it'd either be okay or slightly deficient. Well, sort of a silly thing to think when running heavy feeding genetics like chem/og/stardawg. Even though things were looking perfect during wk3, I should have been hitting them with a Ca/Mg/P/K combo of some sort in preparation of increased demand for nutrition. I didn't. I'm stuck playing catch up.

2. I really don't have proper ceiling height / distance to the top of the plants. The lower canopy is not showing the issue - only the uppers. I can assume this is light intensity induced. The most obvious solution is to simply raise the lights. I did so - but I only had about 4-5" to spare - but I got them as high as I could.

3. The SP3000 is designed for 2' x 5'. My room is 2.5' x 5'. Running 2 x SP3000 in that square footage is a bit...overkill to begin with...but slightly under powered if I didn't use 2. Still figuring out how to dial it in fully.

flylowgethigh - I imagine so. Hard to replicate the power of the 'ole HPS in the sky.



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

Favorite set of glass I've ever owned in my entire life. It may be "production" glass - but I honestly prefer scientific glass vs heady glass. Ash catchers matter. Percs make a difference. Restriction of air flow / back force on pulling through the glass is a huge factor between cheap glass and well made glass. If you are in the market for well made and affordable - I suggest you check out Mav. I really do love the rig I have. Smoothest hits ever.

slide--dry ash catcher--inline matrix recirc ash catcher -- 12 arm tree can. You can see the filtration. Can't wait until I have a need to outfit it with some quartz...

Obviously this pic was prior to a needed cleaning.

dank.Frank

 

[star crash]

Favorite set of glass I've ever owned in my entire life. It may be "production" glass - but I honestly prefer scientific glass vs heady glass. Ash catchers matter. Percs make a difference. Restriction of air flow / back force on pulling through the glass is a huge factor between cheap glass and well made glass. If you are in the market for well made and affordable - I suggest you check out Mav. I really do love the rig I have. Smoothest hits ever.

slide--dry ash catcher--inline matrix recirc ash catcher -- 12 arm tree can. You can see the filtration. Can't wait until I have a need to outfit it with some quartz...

Obviously this pic was prior to a needed cleaning.





dank.Frank

I enjoy bong hit but still to me the cleanest & most vibrant high is smoking a joint ...something about when the smoke passes to the water changes effects a little bit

 

[dank.frank]

star crash I don't know man. I'm not much of a joint smoker. I do agree however, different forms of intake have a different high. To each their own. I'm not one to turn down a joint though...just don't roll many.


Snomoji #18 - I think this was taken at lights off end of day 40.

dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

Now that it is official - I can let the cat out of the bag. I've been teasing an upgrade for some time and I had the idea of keeping the expansion all LED, considering what I had on hand. It would have been Mars -- HGLED -- Mars. Now, it's going to be SP3000 -- FC-E6500 -- SP3000.

Moving on up over here. The flowering area will need to be 5 x 9 now. Not going to complain one bit. Very excited that Mars Hydro reached out again with their newest flagship product. It will be nice to put their best on display in this thread once again.

I really think I might break the 2lb barrier this round. Keep in mind the lights are dimmed to about 65%. That's roughly 380-420w being used. If I hit the goal, that encroaches on 2gpw territory. That's insane for water only soil with passive intakes and no CO2. LED tech is here to stay. I'm really glad I let you all talk me into it.



dank.Frank

 

[joemeetmary]

Hey frank,

Been steady lurkin since you started this thread.

What’s the rebuild plan? You were in a 5x8ish, right? Curious if you’re going to add on more space or convert the current footprint.

Been fun watching this show evolve.

 

[GET MO]

Man your making a real case for indoor organic beds right now! U say no co2 supplement, but was wondering doesnt organic soil generate co2 from the myco?

 

[CannaRed]

Frank,
so far I'm liking my fc3000. Just flipped to 12/12 last week so I'm excited to see how that tent compares to the hps, cmh, and blurple tents.

 

[GOT_BUD?]

Top Dawg Seeds FAM95 #2. Round 2. 2.5' x 5' with 2 x Mars Hydro LED SP3000. Day 38.



You can clearly see the impact of the deficiency on the upper fan leaves in the canopy. The aggressive progression seems to have been slowed to a mere crawl now after a couple feedings with a nutrient tea. It's not ever going to be perfect, trying to play catch up in soil - but it'll be okay in the long run.



dank.Frank

Hi frank. Long time no talk. I've been lurking a lot lately but wanted to pop in to give my half a penny.

I'm seeing in your plants the exact same thing I saw in mine until I raised the temps. Now that I consistently run around 80, I no longer see these issues (the last few weeks of flower I drop the temps as low as I can). I think it has to do with the feed demands of the plants and them not being able to transpire enough due to the lower leaf temps the plants see under LED. The plants don't sweat enough to provide the nutrients they need under the intense lighting, and they start to consume themselves.

Just a thought.

 

[flylowgethigh]

Now that it is official - I can let the cat out of the bag. I've been teasing an upgrade for some time and I had the idea of keeping the expansion all LED, considering what I had on hand. It would have been Mars -- HGLED -- Mars. Now, it's going to be SP3000 -- FC-E6500 -- SP3000.

Moving on up over here. The flowering area will need to be 5 x 9 now. Not going to complain one bit. Very excited that Mars Hydro reached out again with their newest flagship product. It will be nice to put their best on display in this thread once again.

I really think I might break the 2lb barrier this round. Keep in mind the lights are dimmed to about 65%. That's roughly 380-420w being used. If I hit the goal, that encroaches on 2gpw territory. That's insane for water only soil with passive intakes and no CO2. LED tech is here to stay. I'm really glad I let you all talk me into it.



dank.Frank

I learned that the light height is also a key parameter. As my tops reach, I feel the need for a way to measure leaf temps, so I am not doing something stoopid when the real issue is the light. What CO2 are you reading inside the room? Mine never gets under 450.

Water only soil is the real deal, esp with killer bugs and worms.

 

[dank.frank]

joemeetmary - Hey man. Glad to have you following along in the thread. There's been some personal chaos in the mix - but it's been back on track for a minute now. The expansion has been a long time coming - but it just kept shifting with whatever else was going on.

Current build is - 5' 1/2" x 2' 4" flower. 5' 1/2" x 4' 2" veg. Total build area is 7' 5" x 5' 71/2".

There are things I'm learning about how I grow that differs from how others grow. My build space is going to reflect that a bit. I tend to make my spaces smaller than what is generally recommended for a given lights footprint. I learned this from other growers - and it's one of the best pieces of advice I incorporated of the years, in terms of properly filling a space. ALWAYS - leave a perimeter for the plants to grow into. If a 1kw lamp is supposed to be suited for a 5 x 5 space, the plants are placed within a 4 x 4 foot print. That extra 6" around the edge changes everything. Even in my current soil bed, things are planted inward, away from the walls - and not right up to the edges of the bed.

This all matters in terms of what is coming next. 11' 9" x 9' 8" - total build area. I'm keeping the current setup and just modifying it a bit.

Flower Room 1 - 5' 1/2" x 2' 4" - 2 x HGLED XB200 or 2 x Growers Choice 315w CMH
Flower Room 2 - 9' 1" x 5' 6" - 2 x Mars Hydro SP3000 and 1 x Mars Hydro FC-E6500
Veg Room - 5' 4 1/2" x 6' 5 1/2" - where ever I can find room to stick whatever I have to keep plants growing.

The current state of building materials has influenced the design a bit. I'd not normally do it quite like this, but it is what it is. You can see the concept for positioning the lights in the main flower room. In my personal experience, LED doesn't have a whole lot of throw out the sides and it diminishes quickly. This means, plants directly positioned under the lamps perform the best, without exception. This is exactly why you see the bar style lights on light frame rails. Better spread and plant performance - more even PPFD. Understanding how these lights work, I'm actually changing things a bit on this design. Let's talk a bit about the new Mars Hydro FC-E6500.

The FC-E6500 - a 650w light - that seems to be made for a more budget conscious grower trying to maximize their home garden vs a fixture designed for commercial cultivation. The FC line is their commercial line and what would be considered their true top tier units. The FC-E line, is geared more towards the home grower and uses different components I'm not familiar with. BridgeLux LED diodes and a MOSO driver - but I'm not really one to get too caught up into the diode science or the why behind different brands of drivers, etc. If someone wants to break down their decision to use these particular components, I'm more than curious to learn why - outside of what I view as a budget decision for more cost effective production for non-commercial units.

That being said - the FC-E6500 gives two different foot prints for it's usage. 5' x 5' for home production and 4' x 4' for commercial production. Interesting. I looked over the PPFD charts and decided I wanted to try to match the intensity with the SP3000 as much as possible. This resulted in me deciding to do a two things differently. The diodes on each lamp - run about 42".

The SP3000 is rated for a 5' x 2' footprint. Using it in such, I can see the flowers at the ends of each light - that 6" perimeter - really just aren't as bulked as the flowers within the 4' range, which is more directly under the lighting fixture. I assume, I'd see the same effect with the FC-E6500 as well, if used in a 5' x 5' footprint. Thusly, I'm going to keep the plants under a 4 x 4 area. It was this line of thinking, that resulted in the current layout for the new flowering room.

Keeping the plants in a 3 x 8 footprint and allowing them to fill out a 4' x 9' - while keeping that expansion perimeter still directly under the light bars, versus spilling over as I have been allowing. I think, I'll increase over all bulk quality this way vs having some lesser side lit flowers mixed in the batch. This could be a mistake and I could be making an error in judgement. However, you'll notice I left about 18" to sneak in the room and work around a bit. If I have too, I just reposition where the "center" of the room is and move the lights off the back wall a bit.

GET MO - I have to admit. I love the raised bed. I wish I had done it years ago. It's a game changer. That being said, the new room - will likely have 21 8 gallon pots - I wish I could build beds for all these, but it really doesn't fit into the current bigger picture scenario right now. I have no actual idea what current CO2 levels are. I don't have a meter and with it being passive intakes on continual exhaust / circulation, I really don't imagine it has much time to build up into high concentrations. I'd be really surprised if it was above ambient levels.

CannaRed - I was looking at the FC3000 - Been trying to talk my cannavixen into growing her own supply of flowers since she can technically have 4 plants. Guess I'll have to tune in and watch your progress. Thanks for the heads up!

GOT_BUD? - What's crackin' dude?! Good to see you drop in. Temps have been between 72 and 84 during lights on. Just depends on how I leave the door to the room - closed or propped open a bit. Temps go up with it propped open, as it pulls in more air from the exhaust in the veg room vs pulling from the passive intakes in the side walls. The fresh air, is cooler. The recirculated air from veg - ie the exhaust - a bit warmer. I really can't say for sure what the cause was. Last round - I saw the exact same thing on plants that were taller and closer to the light. #5 and #3 mainly. The #2 was shorter than them and didn't show this at all the first round. The Snomoji - which is a bit shorter - does not show this blemish at all this current round. The lower canopy of the FAM95 does not show this on this current round. Only the upper fan leaves. It's interesting. It seems though, I really put a halt to it by feeding some nutrient teas and reducing light output back to about 60%. I guess I could increase lighting again and see if they tweek out again...LOL. But I'm really not trying to stress them any more than I already have.

This particular harvest - has a special destination. It's the first time I personally, will be entering my own flower, into a contest. Won't say which one yet - but it's exclusive and this is just the right plant for it. My harvest date lines up perfectly for an entry. First time that's ever really been the case - I legitimately could not have planned it better. So. I put out some feelers and managed to get myself an invitation. Got my entry pre-approved. Paid the fees. It is just a matter of seeing it all through at this point. Hate the crop isn't flawless. To be expected though, with what is still a new plant under new lights. ... ... ... . Anyway - I hear what you're saying and I've heard it from others. I'm going to have with this new expansion...to keep the temps up, I guess. Such a weird thing to say. I'd like to think, it's just a distance from the lights issue - but I see others running these things 12-16" away - GET MO for example in his side by side LED thread. I dunno.

flylowgethigh - Hey man. I'm not sure the CO2 levels as I don't have a meter. I think it could be a combination of things, but mostly, I'm just blasting them with too much light. The amount of light in the room is good for double the space it's in. Sort of a weird way for me to do things but it's working out better. With two lamps, I get about 8" more height - as the exhaust fan, is pretty much in the center of the room. Keep in mind, that wasn't an issue when using two lights...but to use a single SP3000, bar light, in the middle of the room as designed, would force it to stay below the fan. With 2 x SP3000, the fan sits between the two, in the middle. For this reason alone, I got two lights, and knew I'd need to run them dimmed down, to some extent. You figure, if one at 100% is sufficient and I'm using two at 60% - I'm still driving the plants hard for the space. Given I didn't amend the bed after last round, if very well could be a bed full of OG/Chem, is just HUNGRY - and they needed more than I was giving. By the time I adjust, it a changes again. NOT a complaint. Progress is good. Water only organic soil though - that's never going to change.

Good vibes, everyone. Puffing on this Cherry Stardawg. It's good smoke. Tonight, lights on, marks 7wks. 49 days completed. It looks like Snomoji #18 is going to run 9+wks. The FAM95 #2 is looking like her true harvest window is more along the 74-77 day range - not the 9wk range. I took her too early last time. Got excited I think. She's...just. so. pretty.

Also - if you didn't get the memo - ICmag is going to go through another update. Whole new forum software coming. No more vBull. On to greener pastures I am told.



dank.Frank

 

[blazeoneup]

The cost of lumber is insanity, looking forward to the upcoming expansion and harvest peace n puffs.

 

[GOT_BUD?]

The cost of lumber is insanity, looking forward to the upcoming expansion and harvest peace n puffs.

No joke. I just completed 2 raised beds outside that would have cost me half of what it did if I had built them last fall instead of waiting until this spring.