Deficiency has reached my main cola, should I throw this thing out? What should I do?

[ice minus]

Greetings all, from St-Jacobs, ON!

Cannabis seems to hate my water, and keeps getting cranky after a few weeks. This time of course in flower, and it has progressed to my main bud as seen in the pic

Should I just throw this thing completely out and try again? I am a stubborn mofo and determined to experiment until I can make my hard water composition actually work for me. I don't know if this means cutting my water down with RO, or adding something to it, or adding something to the soil.. But I would love your advice

Thanks again experts, I won't be deterred and have tons of babies in veg to try again, and again, and again

Media: KIS Mix Blended Soil | Black Swallow Living Soils, Brantford ON (blackswallowsoil.com)

Lighting: HLG-550 R-Spec

Water: Tap from Mannheim Water Treatment Plant. Kitchener-Waterloo, ON

Water Composition: https://www.icmag.com/attachments/1714068512427-png.18993281/

Water PPM: 310-350

Water pH: 8.0 settles down to mid 7 and then I GH pH Down to 6.5

Just wondering if I should throw this out, would it stress nanner from the crispy leaves?

I was listening to the Cannabis Science podcast and on episode 3 or so they had Clackamas Coots on and he seems to be a huge believer that enough castings can fix ANYTHING. They're loaded with natural calcium and magnesium and all kinds of trace stuff. Will buffer your water problems and fix them up as long as there's sufficient castings in the media that aren't spent etc.. So I added both a slurry to top dress and just fed them the tea as well

Huge thanks again, just wondering if I should pitch this and try again. I have so many clones in veg I can never flower them all

 

[PadawanWarrior]

View attachment 19010393

Greetings all, from St-Jacobs, ON!

Cannabis seems to hate my water, and keeps getting cranky after a few weeks. This time of course in flower, and it has progressed to my main bud as seen in the pic

Should I just throw this thing completely out and try again? I am a stubborn mofo and determined to experiment until I can make my hard water composition actually work for me. I don't know if this means cutting my water down with RO, or adding something to it, or adding something to the soil.. But I would love your advice

Thanks again experts, I won't be deterred and have tons of babies in veg to try again, and again, and again

Media: KIS Mix Blended Soil | Black Swallow Living Soils, Brantford ON (blackswallowsoil.com)

Lighting: HLG-550 R-Spec

Water: Tap from Mannheim Water Treatment Plant. Kitchener-Waterloo, ON

Water Composition: https://www.icmag.com/attachments/1714068512427-png.18993281/

Water PPM: 310-350

Water pH: 8.0 settles down to mid 7 and then I GH pH Down to 6.5

Just wondering if I should throw this out, would it stress nanner from the crispy leaves?

I was listening to the Cannabis Science podcast and on episode 3 or so they had Clackamas Coots on and he seems to be a huge believer that enough castings can fix ANYTHING. They're loaded with natural calcium and magnesium and all kinds of trace stuff. Will buffer your water problems and fix them up as long as there's sufficient castings in the media that aren't spent etc.. So I added both a slurry to top dress and just fed them the tea as well

Huge thanks again, just wondering if I should pitch this and try again. I have so many clones in veg I can never flower them all

What've you been feeding them? My first thought would be to check pH.

 

[Redrum92]

Doesn't look nearly bad enough to toss. Probably even smokeable

 

[Outdo]

She's come this far you might as well let her finish. Being an annual plant, they fade at the end of flower anyway.

How long has she been in flower?

 

[I Care]

Soil getting too dry. Low on light. Root bound/other issue. Possibly pH.
If you have a way for water collection.. flush with your feed and run it through and through again.. See if the PH or PPM changes on the water run off.

 

[I Care]

I had hard water from limestone aquifers with added chloramines and things while I was living down south. Would leave water in jugs by filling them up after every watering and letting them sit with caps off until I needed them, sometimes less than 24hours. Used Lime Juice concentrate as my pH correction.

What I’m describing is you use your water to flood the container you’re using and catch that water. Test that run off and see if it’s changing. If it changes, correct it however you need to meet your parameters and keep doing this until you’re getting the same water in and out.

This is an emergency flush/buffer procedure without starving your plant. If you’re using a good media you should be able to do this without risk of over watering.

 

[Redrum92]

I had hard water from limestone aquifers with added chloramines and things while I was living down south. Would leave water in jugs by filling them up after every watering and letting them sit with caps off until I needed them, sometimes less than 24hours. Used Lime Juice concentrate as my pH correction.

What I’m describing is you use your water to flood the container you’re using and catch that water. Test that run off and see if it’s changing. If it changes, correct it however you need to meet your parameters and keep doing this until you’re getting the same water in and out.

This is an emergency flush/buffer procedure without starving your plant. If you’re using a good media you should be able to do this without risk of over watering.

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I believe the "let water sit for 24 hours" method evaporates chlorine, but not chloramine. Definitely still good advice for someone with bad water.

I also have awful tap water that is 100% necessary to put through reverse osmosis and replenish the cal/mag

 

[gedLang]

Chloramine will evaporate but it takes much longer, maybe several days or more. The lime juice will also remove chloramine due to ascorbic acid.

But in general, I think that chloramine/chlorine are unlikely to cause deficiencies on their own. They have an inhibitory effect on microorganism populations but it is not so dramatic as to cause major problems. A test of pH and ppm seems wise in this case.

 

[revegeta]

@ice minus flowers don't look that bad man. The main thing I would be careful about is, as the deficiency/blockage keeps progressing, the small leaves will dry and receed into the bud.

Pay attention when this starts to happen and take them out if the bud, otherwise they may rot allowing botrytis (fungus) to develop. Gently open up the cola pulling the flowers apart and pull the burned leaflets out and make sure it's clean on the inside. Then worry about fixing your water for the next one.

 

[Outdo]

@ice minus flowers don't look that bad man. The main thing I would be careful about is, as the deficiency/blockage keeps progressing, the small leaves will dry and receed into the bud.

Pay attention when this starts to happen and take them out if the bud, otherwise they may rot allowing botrytis (fungus) to develop. Gently open up the cola pulling the flowers apart and pull the burned leaflets out and make sure it's clean on the inside. Then worry about fixing your water for the next one.

This is excellent advice!

 

[ice minus]

You guys are awesome, thank you so much!!

I have let it continue to flower and did my absolute best to make sure my water was massively cut this time down to around 150ppm, so roughly half RO and half Tap this time. Both treated with pure absorbic acid (0.25g per 5 gal to be safe) which is slightly above the threshold the /r/Aquaponics chloramine treatment spreadsheet recommended. So I'm hoping the chlorine/chloramine thing has become mostly a moot factor in all of this. I also stir several times and let it sit over 24h just to be triple safe!

I stopped using chemical pH down too via GH pH down as per advice from another friend just to see if it changes anything.


Some more major fan leaves have curled up or mottled with spots unfortunately. I lightly trimmed out the visibly accessible crisped leaves in hopes of saving the main bud but even if that ends up with issues I feel like the lower branches look to be in better shape.

I can cut this down now and juts move on if that's the verdict.

I need to figure out if there's literally anything I can to make use of my 350ppm water or am I absolutely doomed and relegated to using wasteful RO

And if doomed to use my 10 PPM RO, then please advise what additives are needed

 

[ice minus]

Fixed double post by posting these updated pics

Is it screwed?!

 

[ice minus]

And just to re-iterate, my feelings aren't hurt by any kind of doom and gloom on this plant. I have so many clones in veg and can try, try, try again. I fully expect it even. So if it's screwed, no problem, just lay it on me and I'll respect it. I'm a novice and already managed to get 3 plants to harvest which I'm over the moon about, including a rare sativa I've already smoked 10 joints of and still have SO much to go! It's SO sticky and terpy that even though it looks amateurish, I'm very happy with the taste and burn (15 days @ 60rh)

Gigantic thanks again to all ICMAG posters, this forum is really great, have a great week guys

 

[ice minus]

Soil getting too dry. Low on light. Root bound/other issue. Possibly pH.
If you have a way for water collection.. flush with your feed and run it through and through again.. See if the PH or PPM changes on the water run off.

I can absolutely guarantee you're right on bare minimum root bound - it's WAY too small and I plan to increase in all future plants

Also may very well be true on the soil thing. They have been watered via Blumats their entire life but after seeing your comment I inspected the soil and pot and it's absolutely on the dry side. I just turned up the dripper flow a bit

I'm a novice

Thank you sir

 

[ice minus]

Chloramine will evaporate but it takes much longer, maybe several days or more. The lime juice will also remove chloramine due to ascorbic acid.

But in general, I think that chloramine/chlorine are unlikely to cause deficiencies on their own. They have an inhibitory effect on microorganism populations but it is not so dramatic as to cause major problems. A test of pH and ppm seems wise in this case.

Hi gedLang!!
Just curious on your thoughts on this spreadsheet posted by a chemist, on reddit, which I've been using as a dosing guide. Sourced as full lb or more of absorbic acid powder from a little health food shop literally in my tiny town - so assumably way more readily available in most places!

I now just simply throw 0.25g into a 5gal bucket which is a slight "over dose" and according to the users on Aquaponics, the effects are sustained, and also immediate

Huge thanks for your checking in!

 

[ice minus]

@ice minus flowers don't look that bad man. The main thing I would be careful about is, as the deficiency/blockage keeps progressing, the small leaves will dry and receed into the bud.

Pay attention when this starts to happen and take them out if the bud, otherwise they may rot allowing botrytis (fungus) to develop. Gently open up the cola pulling the flowers apart and pull the burned leaflets out and make sure it's clean on the inside. Then worry about fixing your water for the next one.

such a nice guy, thank you so much for the encouragement!! this is such a nice , friendly forum. I know my stuff looks brutal, and is easy to make fun of (i do it to myself!) but you guys are class acts all around

Thanks again to the entire forum here for not losing patience with me

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Fixed double post by posting these updated pics

Is it screwed?!

You never said what you were feeding them.

 

[ice minus]

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I believe the "let water sit for 24 hours" method evaporates chlorine, but not chloramine. Definitely still good advice for someone with bad water.

I also have awful tap water that is 100% necessary to put through reverse osmosis and replenish the cal/mag

Hi friend, just wanted to know, what dictates OR maybe should say dictated for you that your hard water absolutely needed to be converted to RO?
What were your symptoms? What is it about the water that makes it unadaptable?

This is the water composition I've been provided by Mannheim Water Treatment Plant leadership, if you don't mind taking a quick glance: https://www.icmag.com/threads/here-are-the-water-results-from-region-of-waterloo-tap-water.18130976/

Does anything jump out as problematic?

 

[ice minus]

You never said what you were feeding them.

Water, via Blumats. Was originally pure hard water from the tap treated for chloramines, and testing around 310-350 PPM. Then was pH downing to 6.5 using phosphoric pH down (General Hydroponics).

You've helped me already by looking over the composition but here's another look: https://www.icmag.com/threads/here-are-the-water-results-from-region-of-waterloo-tap-water.18130976/

The Black Swallow KIS Mix seems to do great for the first few weeks but then always starts getting these leaf problems no matter WHAT I've tried so far.

After such problems have been apparent, and panicing, I stopped chemical pHing in an attempt to try and just see if anything changes, after some advice from another organics grower, saying maybe the pH down was causing excessive calcium or other nutrient uptake

They were transplanted into 3 or 5 gal fabrics with fresh KIS Black Swallow mix which did a wonderful job in veg, and then carrying them part way through flower, but after a couple weeks my stems turn red and they start showing problems and I assume get fully locked out

Just water, and the composition link is above. Out of desperation I have JUST started diluting the raw hard water down to 150ppm using about a perfect 50% of RO from my system. I was trying to avoid any use of RO whatsoever, though, and it's been painful

Thank you again, PadawanWarrior

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Water, via Blumats. Was originally pure hard water from the tap treated for chloramines, and testing around 310-350 PPM. Then was pH downing to 6.5 using phosphoric pH down (General Hydroponics).

You've helped me already by looking over the composition but here's another look: https://www.icmag.com/threads/here-are-the-water-results-from-region-of-waterloo-tap-water.18130976/

The Black Swallow KIS Mix seems to do great for the first few weeks but then always starts getting these leaf problems no matter WHAT I've tried so far.

After such problems have been apparent, and panicing, I stopped chemical pHing in an attempt to try and just see if anything changes, after some advice from another organics grower, saying maybe the pH down was causing excessive calcium or other nutrient uptake

They were transplanted into 3 or 5 gal fabrics with fresh KIS Black Swallow mix which did a wonderful job in veg, and then carrying them part way through flower, but after a couple weeks my stems turn red and they start showing problems and I assume get fully locked out

Just water, and the composition link is above. Out of desperation I have JUST started diluting the raw hard water down to 150ppm using about a perfect 50% of RO from my system. I was trying to avoid any use of RO whatsoever, though, and it's been painful

Thank you again, PadawanWarrior

My guess is that's phosphorus deficiency. That KIS soil isn't going to feed them indefinitely. No soil is truly water ONLY. You still need to feed it. Your water could be making things worse but I wouldn't give up on your tap water yet.