Defficency or Overfert?

[cesartime]

What STRAIN: unknown local clone
What was the establishing technique?: clone
What is the age of your plants: 2 weeks from root
How tall are the plants?: worst affected clones are about 7-8'' tall.
What PHASE are the plants in?: seedling
What Technique are you using: Coco Coir, RTW 1X daily
What substrate/medium are you using?: Coco Coir 1 gal gro-bags
What is the Water temperature?: Temp in res is about 65deg
What color are your roots?: White
What Nutrient's are you using? CNS-17
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using?: 700ppm on milwaukee meter - .5
What is the pH of the "Tank": Ph in res is 5.8
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment?: Yes.
When was your last watering?: Water @ lights on daily.
When was your last feeding change?: bumped up feed from 600ppm to 700ppm last week.
How often do you clean your system: res is only 2 weeks old, I fill 10 gals at a time, and havent used all 10 yet.
What size bulb are you using? 400w MH for 12hrs, and 400w HPS for 6hrs, totaling 18hrs of continous light @ 400w
What is the distance to the canopy?: Bulbs are 6-12'' from canopy depending on height of plant
What is your RH Factor?: RH in the room is around 30%
What is the canopy temperature?: 65deg @ night 75deg @ heat of day.
What is the Day/Night Temp?: 10deg shift from lights on to lights off
What is the current Air Flow?: currently supplied w/ air from a spit off of 8'' ducting connected to my 8'' vortex, also 12'' oscilating fan in room to circulate room air.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?: No, inderectly air just causes plants to sway in breeze.
Is your water HARD or SOFT?: Not sure, water is 110ppm out of tap.
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched: No, these are fresh clones
Have any pest chemicals been used?: No, none at all.
Are plant's infected with pest's: Nope, nothing of the sort.


Ok, Plants are about 2 weeks from root, unknown local clone, 1 gal grow bags, watered 1X daily @ 700ppm. I measured runoff today, not sure if i did it correctly, I just poured some normal 700ppm 5.8ph solution into the cup, caught all the runoff after 3 minutes and measured. Runoff that i caught came off @ 1200ppm 5.8ph.

Id assume or am almost positive that the high runoff it telling me that I am burning the dog shit out of my plants and the resulting signs I am seeing are defficiencies??

Heres a pic of the affected part of the plant:



And heres a close-up of one of the more affected leaves from said clone:



The problem shows up from the bottom of the plant first, and then makes it way up the plant crisping the leaves all to hell. Im assuming that these are signs of overfert but the plant according to these leaves is showing me thats its defficent. However on other plants, or other parts of plants it shows dark green clawing leaves with burnt tips. So is the plant hungry or burning??

High ppm runoff, tells me that the plant if burnt all to hell, possibly to me not flushing this bale of coco well enough (sunleaves). Or is it the plant for one reason or another is missing out on various nutes?? Some sort of lockout??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, ive been trying to self diagnose to no avail so i figured id turn to the professionals for help.

Thanx a million.

 

[cesartime]

any insight?

 

[thc43]

firstly get them out of the cups theres no room for the roots to grow, your plants should booming, high run off would be expected in such a small pot normal run off is usually alittle higher than what goes in. Hook up some drippers and veg those ladies for a week or two

I plant into 10litre pots about 7 days after rooting or when my cup is just about bound with a root ball that doesnt fall apart but before roots discolour from drying out.
I think thats all they need you have everything else pretty much covered, try two feeds daily, i use about five feeds per day in coco here in summer 25litre pots of coco 4x pots per 3x600wt. First feed 30 min after lights on, second feed 3 hours later only first feed needs to have waste. Gl.

 

[Kr@kEn]

Drop the ppms you are feeding to 500ppm for now and get them in bigger containers. Once they take off in the new containers you could start bumping up the ppms in a couple weeks or sooner if they take off right away.

 

[cesartime]

thanx for the replies. Since i originally posted I potted up the clones, (they were only in those cups until they go in the flower room.) put them in 1 gal gro-bags. I then flushed all plants until 150ppm runoff. (water is 100ppm out of tap)

In the I meanwhile gave a foliar feed, and plan on giving some nutes @ 700ppm tomorrow.

Anyhoo, anyone have any insight as to what the original problem was to the plants?

I doubt it was the size of the container, because these symptoms also affected previous plants in 1gal bags.

Mainly Im trying to figure out how much my runoff ppm should vary from my input ppm?

For instance: If feeding @ 700ppm and checking runoff the next day, should my ppm be more than 200ppm higher than what i put in? i.e. 900ppm?

Higher ppm coming out is telling me that:

A. my coco is still laden with salt, or
B. plant isnt eating due to some other sort of problem?

Thanx for any replies.

 

[Kr@kEn]

I think they may have been overfed. Plants only 7-8 inches tall don't need that high of ppms.
Change out your nutrients reservoir every week if organic and every two weeks for synthetics. Honestly you may want to just mix up a batch every few days and let it sit overnight before using it and only make enough for a few days at a time.
What kind of coco is this? It isn't brick coco is it?

 

[Guest]

Aye,
So, coco... My guess is that the original problem was caused by the combination of two factors - a little low pH (aim at 6.3) and a little low nutrient strength. The problem often manifests itself as signs of Mg deficiency.

W.

 

[cesartime]

Kr@ken, i backed off the ppms after the flush so now i hope to see an improvement. And yes, i am using brick/bale coco, 5kg sunleaves bales.

So far so good with the ladies, after the flush i stopped seeing the stunted growth, and with the foliar feed plants are looking much better.

I think/hope i have turned the corner for the better so hopefully my problem originated from my failure to properly flush my coco, resulting in me overfeeding due to the defficiences the plants were showing.

Lesson: Flush the dog shit out of your coco, and measure the runoff of the coco after flushing to ensure your not still holding salty coco.