Decarboxylation - Data & Graphs

[SteelyX]

I think the best data we have so far of the Time & Temperature required for the efficient Decarboxylation of THC is from the GW Pharma patent application:

https://www.google.com/patents/EP1536810A2?cl=en

I graphed these and found best-fit curves in Excel. This is not rigorous, rather a rule of thumb sort of analysis.


The first 2 charts are
THC Decarboxylation vs Heating Time for various Temperatures,and
THC Decarboxylation vs Temperature for various Heating Times

Several conclusions can be drawn.

If you have good temperature control and want the most forgiving time window (for instance to allow time for sample to come up to temperature), you would choose 2.5 hours at 221° F.

If you have good time control but want the most forgiving temperature window (for instance with an imprecise oven thermostat), you would choose 260° F for 0.5 hours.

The best yield is found at 221° F for 2 hours. This may trend higher (speculating on extrapolation) if a slightly lower temperature is chosen. For example, 212° F for 2 hours may have good yield, as well as an being an easy temperature to control.

Good yields are also indicated for 260° F at 0.5 hours. Extrapolation indicates that excellent yields may also be seen at temperatures between 248-284° F for 0.25 hours.



These charts show some similarities to the widely circulated 1990 Journal of Chromatography chart:

And a couple of other views of the same data as above:

In light of all this, I have been getting excellent results by Decarboxylating and Infusing in one step. Oil, cannabis, and lecithin go into a boiling bag at 212° F for 2 hours, agitating frequently.

Does anybody else have hard data, or reproducible results to add?

 

[SteelyX]

Had to post image #6 separately

 

[Afternoon Jones]

Instant pot

Instant pot

How often do you agitate during the cycle? I've been messing around with a few different methods. Lately I've been decarbing in a sealed glass mason jar inside my instant pot pressure cooker on high pressure mode which is 239 to 244 Fahrenheit for 40 minutes. I'm curious if you are getting a full decarb at that 210° temperature for only two hours. I would think that you would need to go 8+ hours at that temperature to get a full decarb but then again, I'm no scientist.

I have done batches in my magical butter machine at 220° for two and four hours and have never felt like it was as potent as lately when I've been heating the flower up to 240° before adding to the oil. I do feel like the flavor changes a little bit when heated that high tho and I'd like to maintain more of the fresh flower taste. I'm trying to figure out what the lowest temperature/time would be to get a proper decarb but also maintain that fresh flower taste.

 

[ozzieAI]

i have tried various temp/time combinations and have found that a quick flash fry/constantly stirring @ 150C/300F till i smell a strong aroma, then remove from heat and place in a bowl to cool is working really well. it is so easy and quick to do, it takes around 2 minutes. ideally you don't want to see smoke or have your herb turn completely brown. i used a laser thermometer to gauge the temp my hot plate works at so i know what setting to use. if things get too hot remove from heat ASAP.

 

[blastfrompast]

ozzieAI:

I decarb based on co2 bubbles and quite a bit hotter, more like U.... I concure... I cool immediately also....and fast then cool fast...

I only work with BHO tho...
usually 10 or 20g slabs..

decarb, then suck into syringes for measureed use later.

 

[DenverJim]

I was making edibles a while ago. I added lecithin to the oil mixed it up and forgot came back and noticed the mixture bubbling at room temp. I am still not sure what was happening. How could it de carb at room temp.

 

[ozzieAI]

i found this interesting: http://marijuanagrowershq.com/decarboxylating-cannabis-turning-thca-into-thc/

 

[PhenoMenal]

I've done some Thin Layer Chromatography testing specifically to try out decarboxylation over time ... here's a couple of my plates from [icmag TLC thread]

high THCV strain...

high CBG strain...

The initial surprise for me was how quickly you can get to ~80% of the final result -- eg converting THCA to THC (15 mins is my earliest test, but clearly much earlier than that), which is very cool when simply hunting CBD etc (or having to bake brownies in a hurry!). But it also confirms an hour or so is better if you're making edibles and want maximum conversion

And going back to this image linked by the OP, you can see where my samples fit in and basically agree, at 125°C (even suggesting 27 mins @ 122°C is optimal)

 

[EvergreenState]

I researched decarbing a couple of years ago and found a site that stated the standard for decarb was 10 to 15 minutes at 220 degrees F, depending on the dryness of the mj; I do 12 minutes. Take out the mj and increase the oven temp to 250 degrees F. When the oven is preheated to 250 return the mj to the oven for 45 minutes to 60 minutes; I do 50 to 53 minutes. I've used this method probably 50 to 60 times and it has worked every single time.
The results are so potent that, regardless of strain, I never use more than .25 of a gram and many times experiment with half that just to be sure that I don't get too high for too long. This method is foolproof.

 

[blastfrompast]

Anyone decarb in the 295-300 'F range? BHO decarb, hot and fast......

been doing that a bit lately, sure wish i could get lab testing done here on extracts....seems to be getting rave reviews.

 

[Ringodoggie]

I do all my rosin decarbing in a beaker on a hotplate. About 250F to 300F and a gram takes a few minutes.

Watch the bubbles, when the big ones stop, you're real close.

 

[PaulieWaulie]

What the suggested time from this thread is saying is 2 hours at 220F, but research from this video suggests 1 hour at 220 is best, (they say 103C which is 217F so lets say 220 for comparison).


Another comparison is here it shows 250F 25-35 mins is best.

she says oven at 240F for 40 minutes gives a 33% THC LOSS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g74EZiNHdZk&t=1410s

(they created a product so obviously did pretty solid research into what is best)

Not saying anyone is wrong, It just seems that both sides have done proper research but are coming up with drastically different times. Trying to understand why that may be.

 

[PaulieWaulie]

How often do you agitate during the cycle? I've been messing around with a few different methods. Lately I've been decarbing in a sealed glass mason jar inside my instant pot pressure cooker on high pressure mode which is 239 to 244 Fahrenheit for 40 minutes. I'm curious if you are getting a full decarb at that 210° temperature for only two hours. I would think that you would need to go 8+ hours at that temperature to get a full decarb but then again, I'm no scientist.

I have done batches in my magical butter machine at 220° for two and four hours and have never felt like it was as potent as lately when I've been heating the flower up to 240° before adding to the oil. I do feel like the flavor changes a little bit when heated that high tho and I'd like to maintain more of the fresh flower taste. I'm trying to figure out what the lowest temperature/time would be to get a proper decarb but also maintain that fresh flower taste.

I am going to try my instant pot as well. Here is what I found on temperatures and pressure.

"The default setting of the pressure cooker is “high” (with a pressure of 10.2-11.6 psi and a temperature of 239°F-244°F), but you can adjust it to a lower pressure and temperature (5.8-7.2 psi and 229-233°F)"

I am thinking 1 Hour on manual High Heat/Pressure setting @ 239F-244F
I would go with the low temp/pressure setting for longer but Its hard to figure out the best time based on the graphs provided because the temp is between the 225F and 250F temp points that have been graphed with sample data.


other Benefits of instant pot are:

No smell versus oven decarb (pressure cooker is completely sealed- obviously)
more accurate temp versus oven
Full saturation of material and butter/water because of pressure
After the decarb step I will simmer it at 210F for an additional 8 hours in same pot so don't need to move or transfer anything.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Something else to consider is what effect you want from the product you are decarbing.


If you wanted something, let's say, just to sleep at night, you might want to run over all the normally suggested times so more CBN is resultant.


I'm pretty sure lesser decarb will give different effects than more decarb.


So, again, I think it depends on what the end user wants.

 

[PaulieWaulie]

True. When you go longer that Loss is just a conversion to CBN is that correct? So its not a complete loss. If im giving it to other people and they are new to edibles, I would assume that they would prefer to not straight up comatose. Especially since they haven't found proper dosage for themselves yet and are experimenting still.

Another thing I wanted to bring up here is that:

Lets say you bake your goods for 30 min at 350F

sure the internal temp is hitting maybe 200 ish. just like a roast or etc.
But lets assume that 1/3 to 1/2 of the brownies outer area does reach a temp of 250 at least and about 10 mins in to baking time. thats 20 minutes at 250 for 1/3 to 1/2 of the portion.

30 mins baking time is on the lower end too, as is 350F. Some things are 1 Hour @ 400F, so I would think those things would be really bad.

I would suggest 350F and 15-25 min is ideal. It depends on you carb. If you carb to peak, then it will go past that in the baking, so better to under carb a bit?

 

[PaulieWaulie]

Has anyone done any side by side with proper equal dosage?

Im curious to see what these graphs translate to in real life results.

I make plenty of batches and try to make them consistently the same. So I have a chance to start making a blind test side by side and see how they feel.

my method: let me know your thoughts!

1 Pound of Bud + 10 pounds of butter (10 bricks), +10 cups of water.

final butter = 34 X 125 ml jars,

Each 125 ML Jar = 16 Pieces of Desert.

Instant Pot - Decarb Step - 1 Hour @ 229F-233F / 6-7 PSI
Instant Pot - Infusion - 8 Hours @ 200-210F Slow Cook

1/4 of a desert = perfect for me
1/2 = Too much for me, good for others maybe
1 = your on the ground no matter who you are.

 

[ozzieAI]

when i used to make canna butter/oil i never used to decarb...i just cooked with h20 for several hours...

now that i am making caps i trying to get consistent results by using fixed temps and times when heating my ground up buds in a fry pan...i also look for other signs such as vapour coming off the mix, the actual colour change and the smell....

so far it is working as the 0.2gr in each cap is enough to give me a nice high, 2 gives a heavy stone and 3 = goodnight....

adding coconut oil, lecithin and terpenes into the mix really gives an extra boost...

 

[PaulieWaulie]

when i used to make canna butter/oil i never used to decarb...i just cooked with h20 for several hours...

now that i am making caps i trying to get consistent results by using fixed temps and times when heating my ground up buds in a fry pan...i also look for other signs such as vapour coming off the mix, the actual colour change and the smell....

so far it is working as the 0.2gr in each cap is enough to give me a nice high, 2 gives a heavy stone and 3 = goodnight....

adding coconut oil, lecithin and terpenes into the mix really gives an extra boost...

So why does coconut oil make it stronger? Wondering about using that instead of butter. I will also be adding lecithin from now on. How much stronger does it get by adding lecithin? 10% stronger? 20% ? ;P

 

[Sign]

I've read coconut/MCT because body metabolizes it faster than short or long chain fatty acids, but never used coconut oil myself

 

[ozzieAI]

So why does coconut oil make it stronger? Wondering about using that instead of butter. I will also be adding lecithin from now on. How much stronger does it get by adding lecithin? 10% stronger? 20% ? ;P

what sign said...easier/quicker to process...

lecithin...hard to say but significant...at least 20%...

terpenes give an extra dimension by influencing the type of effect you want...