Decarboxylating questions - to transfer herb taste and high into fresh salads ^^

[titoon29]

Hello my ic friends!

ive been cooking edibles more and more with time, i love this potent and long hit it provides you...

I've been reading a lot on how decarboxylation is needed in order to achieve a full effect, and have a lot of questions about it. I'm also wondering why i can t find much reply to these questions on ic because they seems quite important to me.

let's just quote Robert Clarke on decarboxylation

"Additionally, the cannabinoids in fresh plant material are mostly in the acid forms, which are not psychoactive. The acid cannabinoids decarboxylate (they lose the gas, carbon dioxide) during the drying or curing processes, which convert them to their psychoactive neutral forms. Decarboxylation is complete if the marijuana is actually smokes. For this reason, no special procedures are needed to decarboxylate the marijuana unless it will be eaten."

So decarboxylation is needed, but how the hell using non heated material, for example hash in a yoghourt, or hash in chocolate milk , i get some very decent high ?

are some cannabinoids decarboxylate a bit, or it is just the organism can get high with non decarboxylate stuff, but it s just less potent, or provide a different effect?

that would also answer my question on using non decarboxylate stuff for medical purposes, do medical effect like pain relieve or anxiety relieve will be there as much as in decarb stuff, while psychoactive high will be less felt ?

Now for those into chemistry

How can i decarboxylate the cannabinoids without heating ?

for example, i have made a rhum flavored with buds(that previously went through a iso quick hash). It has some potency (around 25g/bud per 70cl), but as far as i ve understood, it totally needs decarboxylation.
Or an mixed iso oil with hemp oil, to use for salads...

could i eat something along with it that would ensure decarb ? or a drink ? im pretty sure i ve read stuff that would trigger the decarb process in the stomach ( advocados/lemon mix, baked beans) but i haven t tried it enough to say it is different, nor understood the scientific point.

so if anybody have some infos, i'ld love too hear more about it. i maybe should have a look on scientific publications i have access to.
It would greatly helped me in developping recipes that achieve full level of high, while being fresh...

i m seeing some raw fish with lemons, aromates and some hazy based hash, some tartare steak with sour diesel hash... potatoe diesel salad too, no need for curry or spice


Thanks in advance !!!!

 

[Zygomatic Major]

How do you get the hash into your yoghurt or chocolate milk without heating it?

People definitely get high of un-heated edibles though I'm not sure how. I think maybe that when Clarke says they are non-psychoactive I think he should maybe be saying less psychactive.

If the hash has been sitting around for a while some of it will have decarboxylated but not much. Perhaps as you say something happens during digestion that causes it too. Maybe other non acid constituents could be responsible for a lot of the effects too.

 

[Haps]

OK, prove this for yourself, it will help you understand. Divide the weed you want to work with into two batches, make them the same quality. Preheat your oven to 325, with a pan in it, take the pan out, add half the herb, cook for 10 minutes, then cool. This will stink to high heaven, prepare for that, the smell is terpenes burning off not thc, take a hit off the oven vapors to confirm this, I do.

Then make edibles from both and you will experience the difference, and you will always decarb after that. You can not really decarb hash, it just melts, yes, I tried it. Have fun.
H

 

[Zygomatic Major]

Haps, you know you can decarb at lower temps too you just need to do it longer is all. It's a sliding scale i think, room temps takes months-years going through your oven temps for 1 mins right up to actual smoking temps which is instantaneous. So you can decarb hash at low enough temps so it doesn't melt, I've done it by pressing hash against a very hot radiator with some celophane before or an iron and a wet towel. As you probably know the weed hash or oil becomes a darker colour when the decarb is done.

 

[Haps]

When I tried lower temps, like 300 and 310, the results seemed less potent to me.

TIToon, you can just extract into olive oil for salads, works great, although oil is a different stone to me, takes longer, lasts longer, with olive oil, I am always still stoned for the next day. Use spinach for the salads it is great for ya, and you can also mix a few fresh leaves in to spice it up a bit.
H

 

[titoon29]

hello Zygomatic Major and haps !

thanks a lot for taking some time to answer some of my questions !

How do you get the hash into your yoghurt or chocolate milk without heating it?

People definitely get high of un-heated edibles though I'm not sure how. I think maybe that when Clarke says they are non-psychoactive I think he should maybe be saying less psychactive.

If the hash has been sitting around for a while some of it will have decarboxylated but not much. Perhaps as you say something happens during digestion that causes it too. Maybe other non acid constituents could be responsible for a lot of the effects too.

i use dry sieve to put into yogourt, and hash that can be putted into small pieces without much heat.

i think the decarboxylation with time is not the same that the one with heat, the time gets thc to break into cbn.

yes you do get high with fresh material, even very high.

i did a few time some milk boiled with herb (around 2g/dose) for 30 minutes, and i can tell you it will get you really really high, while in theory not much decarboxylated (heated at less than 100°C)
same with hash in a coffee with milk. the hash dissolve in the milk.

OK, prove this for yourself, it will help you understand. Divide the weed you want to work with into two batches, make them the same quality. Preheat your oven to 325, with a pan in it, take the pan out, add half the herb, cook for 10 minutes, then cool. This will stink to high heaven, prepare for that, the smell is terpenes burning off not thc, take a hit off the oven vapors to confirm this, I do.

Then make edibles from both and you will experience the difference, and you will always decarb after that. You can not really decarb hash, it just melts, yes, I tried it. Have fun.

well haps i totally agree with you, i did both and find heated material wayyy more potent.
when i do edibles, i don t heat my butter first, but i use it in recipes that will go into an oven at more than 160 for at least half an hour, so it will get decarb.

I never do any non decarb stuff except for few recipes. that s why i am asking how to decarb without eating cause i m sure there is a way !

Haps, you know you can decarb at lower temps too you just need to do it longer is all. It's a sliding scale i think, room temps takes months-years going through your oven temps for 1 mins right up to actual smoking temps which is instantaneous. So you can decarb hash at low enough temps so it doesn't melt, I've done it by pressing hash against a very hot radiator with some celophane before or an iron and a wet towel. As you probably know the weed hash or oil becomes a darker colour when the decarb is done.

i m really not sure this process you re doing will decarb the hash, it ll def oxydise it, but decarb, well ????

When I tried lower temps, like 300 and 310, the results seemed less potent to me.

TIToon, you can just extract into olive oil for salads, works great, although oil is a different stone to me, takes longer, lasts longer, with olive oil, I am always still stoned for the next day. Use spinach for the salads it is great for ya, and you can also mix a few fresh leaves in to spice it up a bit.

nice tips haps, but when you do olive oil, how do you do it ? iso oil mixed straight away ? heated before ? so it is not decarboxylated ?

so to all reading this thread, if you have any comment or more tips, that would be really appreciated !

my questions were and are :

But how the hell using non heated material, for example hash in a yoghourt, or hash in chocolate milk , i get some very decent high ?

How can i decarboxylate the cannabinoids without heating ?

Could i eat something along with it that would ensure decarb ?

they must be some people with that knowledge, with so many edibles fans around !

 

[titoon29]

Cannabis tea revisited: A systematic evaluation of the
cannabinoid composition of cannabis tea

Arno Hazekamp, , Krishna Bastola, Hassan Rashidi,
Johan Bender , Rob Verpoorte, Journal of Ethnopharmacology 113 (2007) 85–90

In order to understand the composition of cannabis tea, ini-
tially some studies were done with pure cannabinoid standards.
Recovery of THC and THCA during sample preparation for
HPLC analysis.
All subsequent measurements were cor-
rected for these values.
When pure THC was added to boiling water, only about 17%
was recovered after 15 min of boiling. A THC precipitate was
clearly visible on the surface of the glass flask used for boiling the
water, indicating that a saturated solution had formed. Spiking
of pure THCA resulted in a much higher recovery of about 63%.
A small part of added THCA could be recovered from the water
phase in the form of THC (6.6%), the remaining part was found
as a precipitate on the glass container used for boiling.
These results indicate that conversion of THCA into THC
is limited in boiling water. Furthermore it is suggested that
a saturated THC solution forms in boiling water, implicating
that addition of extra THC will probably not increase its water
concentration. Similar observations were made when analyzing
cannabis tea samples (see below).
Boiling of the standards did not results in the formation of
degradation products such as CBN or delta-8-THC, indicating
that degradation of these major bioactive cannabinoids is not a
significant factor during tea preparation.

• Amount of cannabis.
The use of a higher than usual amount
of cannabis (1.5 g) did not significantly increase the aque-
ous concentration of THC or THCA, compared to the use
of 1.0 g, again suggesting that a saturated solution forms. In
contrast, the use of half the usual amount (0.5 g) of cannabis
significantly decreased the water concentration of both THC
and THCA to about half the concentration found for standard
tea.
• Boiling time. Variation in boiling time in the range of
10–30 min had only a slight effect on the level of THCA;
levels found were similar at all tested boiling times. In con-
trast, the level of THC was found to be dependant on boiling
time, as increased boiling time resulted in significantly higher
levels of THC. However, THC levels remained much lower
than THCA levels found in these preparationCannabis tea can be considered as a contemporary exam-
ple of a widely used, but poorly understood herbal medicine.
A major concern with the medicinal use of cannabis is the
risk of (accidental) overdosing of THC, which could lead to
psychotropic effects. However, our results show that moderate
changes in the standard preparation protocol for cannabis tea do
not result in dramatic changes in the composition of the tea, nei-
ther quantitatively nor qualitatively. Rather, the results indicate
that cannabis tea has only limited potency, and that probably a
saturated solution of THC forms.

Finally, some attention should be given to the unique
composition of cannabis tea, compared to other forms of admin-
istration, where heating of the material is typically performed
at much higher temperatures (e.g. smoking, vaporizing or bak-
ing), resulting in a virtual complete conversion of acidic into
neutral cannabinoids. This is the reason that, during studies
into the medicinal effects of cannabis preparations, the atten-
tion is commonly focussed on THC alone. However, in the
cannabis tea studied, a significant proportion of THCA was
found. The recently described immuno-modulating properties
of THCA (Verhoeckx et al., 2006) may contribute to the effects
that certain groups of medical users claim after consumption
of cannabis tea. Furthermore, a variety of other acidic cannabi-
noids were found by HPLC analysis, such as cannabigerolic acid
(CBGA) and tetrahydrocannabivarinic acid (THVA). Although
the biological activities of these compounds have hardly been
explored, their presence makes cannabis tea a unique adminis-
tration form that should not be considered as simply a vehicle
for THC.

 

[zymos]

Interesting, but mainly points out that THC is not very water soluble, which is pretty well known...

 

[Haps]

I heated the olive oil and decarbed herb, just like I do with milk, works fine, but messy. I am gonna try a cold extraction too, just leave it soak for a season.
H

 

[RockyMountainHi]

I'm wondering about heating oil to decarb hash.
Maybe using a pressure cooker for the boiling water and higher temp.

Researching coconut oil and shopping for hemp oil