Debating on adding extra Red spectrum LEDs during Flowering. Is it really needed

[DeadHead1980]

Hello everyone, so I have been doing more research as far as LED lights are concerned and i have read so much information that I don't know which route to take, so I thought I would ask this lovely community for some feedback on my dilemma. So here's my situation. I currently have a 4x2 tent with 3 of the Mars Hydro TS600s and things are going great and am really loving these lights and cant wait to upgrade to one of there single span lights for my tent, but anyway, I was doing research on adding extra bar LED lights specifically in the red spectrum area from 660nm-730nm during the flowering stage to help with bud growth. So basically I was seeing if anyone has first hand experience with this and can give me real facts as far as if I should add it, and if so how intense should they be, and how many lights would i need, and how should the lighting schedule go to optimize it. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Here are some pics of my current setup

 

[negative37dBA]

Hi there. Although I hate to recommend him, greengenes has a excellent side by side with all white 1 side, added red 660nm on the other. Both 640 watt 8 bar led set ups. The differences are there and it clear to see. More secondary growth that gets up to near the top growth with the 660. Also a slightly different bud structure(thicker) with the 660. he ran into bud rot at week 8 so no final weights on that one. My guess is the 660 side would have won out in total weight easily.
Have a great day all. Peace, negative.

 

[DeadHead1980]

Hi there. Although I hate to recommend him, greengenes has a excellent side by side with all white 1 side, added red 660nm on the other. Both 640 watt 8 bar led set ups. The differences are there and it clear to see. More secondary growth that gets up to near the top growth with the 660. Also a slightly different bud structure(thicker) with the 660. he ran into bud rot at week 8 so no final weights on that one. My guess is the 660 side would have won out in total weight easily.
Have a great day all. Peace, negative.

thanks for the feedback. Thats my main worry is that it might be too much to add more red

 

[f-e]

Adding more red should only be a problem, if red becomes saturated. It's the best colour to add bulk with though, if you can add more red.

Each colour has a saturation point. Each about the same lux level. If you already have all the red you need, then usually you work on getting all the blue then all the green. The 730 falls outside of this order. As it's more about morphology than weight or resin it's thought.

LED's actually loose red as they age. which could be an issue after a few years. Red is also quite a worked on light, with 3umol/j being quite common. Thats good use of power, making the most effective colour photons.

With low red you won't ever get much stretch. The plant needs to see an increased red balance lower down, to think it's in the shade. This is why sodium plants stretch and LED one's are a lot more stocky. It's 730 mainly thought behind this, but 660 is certainly influential.

The post about greengenes revolves around some of these ideas. How it fits into your grow, is really a question of 'whats up'

 

[Creeperpark]

I use a lot of red in my grows and have had some real fast growing plants. The growth in veg had to be tied down with ties to keep the plant canopy around 5 ft. I had to work hard on keeping the plants pulled down after triggering flowering. If you asked me directly, I would say "yes" add more red to your grow for fat stinky colas. Photos of a red grow!

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

Adding more red should only be a problem, if red becomes saturated. It's the best colour to add bulk with though, if you can add more red.

Each colour has a saturation point. Each about the same lux level. If you already have all the red you need, then usually you work on getting all the blue then all the green. The 730 falls outside of this order. As it's more about morphology than weight or resin it's thought.

LED's actually loose red as they age. which could be an issue after a few years. Red is also quite a worked on light, with 3umol/j being quite common. Thats good use of power, making the most effective colour photons.

With low red you won't ever get much stretch. The plant needs to see an increased red balance lower down, to think it's in the shade. This is why sodium plants stretch and LED one's are a lot more stocky. It's 730 mainly thought behind this, but 660 is certainly influential.

The post about greengenes revolves around some of these ideas. How it fits into your grow, is really a question of 'whats up'

This is informative

 

[Creeperpark]

I don't really know much about lights, I just found some cheap LEDS and replaced my HPS and MH. I've used HPS for a long time and thought those LEDs were for Sissie's, and you couldn't grow decent bud with them. I tried using smaller LEDs alone with a lot less luck, however when I use LED with a 400 HPS together the plants loved it. So when I mixed Red LEDs with Yellows HPS,I got super growth. Combos and mixed spectrums work for me!!

 

[CrustyCruz]

This is informative

As informative as politics: It's simply not true at all,but sounds nice to someone.

My led plants stretch. I've also grown them without stretching.: Same strain, same lights, same nutes.

It's all about nutrients. The only difference between these 2 rooms was transpiration rates. Environment? No...! NUTRIENTS. Phosphorus via Calcium due to poor transpiration is why everyone's led plants are small. Everyone was already on wacky nutrient profiles to begin with and they are now patting themselves on the back under led for "tight nodes bro!" and yielding absolutely nothing. 1.4 grams a watt.. That's like a 1 ounce plant in my room. Nothing smaller than 3 oz ever comes out of there..

 

[Creeperpark]

As informative as politics: It's simply not true at all,but sounds nice to someone.

My led plants stretch. I've also grown them without stretching.: Same strain, same lights, same nutes.


It's all about nutrients. The only difference between these 2 rooms was transpiration rates. Environment? No...! NUTRIENTS. Phosphorus via Calcium due to poor transpiration is why everyone's led plants are small. Everyone was already on wacky nutrient profiles to begin with and they are now patting themselves on the back under led for "tight nodes bro!" and yielding absolutely nothing. 1.4 grams a watt.. That's like a 1 ounce plant in my room. Nothing smaller than 3 oz ever comes out of there..

Please give me more details Crusty, what you say sounds very interesting and I would like to hear more. Would you share the story about the two stems above and how they came about?

 

[DeadHead1980]

definitely think i will add some red to my grow, just got to find the right strength so it doesnt over power my existing light. thanks for all the feedback

 

[Mattbho]

I had a mars eco 98 it was a heavy heavy red light . I hated that light . I bought it specifically for veg .
Being a noob grower when i bought it . I fell for the misinformation the sales rep spewed , even tho I told her this light was for veg.
When I tried to return it a week later. I got the don't worry you will have many good harvests. Too expensive to return. I vegged with that light for a year nothing but problems with plants especially in the winter. My opinion on too much red

 

[hambre]

Well, it depends on your light. That is why the technical charts are so important. If you have enough far red 660-700nm you will be fine, that wavelenght has the advantage to penetrate the leaves better so it translates into more photons to the lower branches, ergo, more production. My english is horrible I hope you can understand me. God bless.

 

[JKD]

Apogees Dr Bugbee says intensity is far more important than spectrum. Give his cannabis lighting myths a google if interested.