cutting branches = bigger buds?

[lilnug420]

so i've been growing for a few years both indoors and outdoors, mostly outdoors.


outdoors with feminized seeds i've always had good yields, but never big buds.

my plants always have LOTS of branches and lots of bud sites everywhere.

i was wondering if i were to cut all the new branches that grow out, and leave a few big ones? i've had this happen with some auto flowers that just grow short but very thick and the buds were massive.




the way i see it, is if i only leave a few branches, the plant will put all of it's energy into those growing them thick and strong, and this would also result in bigger denser buds since there isn't so many branches that the plant has to feed and support.



now, the biggest question, will it affect yield? in my head it shouldn't since there is gonna be fewer buds but much bigger and heavier as the plant can only focus on those few branches rather lots of thin ones.


are there any downsides to this??? tips??? i already use techniques such as LST and super cropping



another advantage i see to this is that my plants will be shorter ( i have a height issue, can only go so tall) and easier to manage overall. let me know your thoughts growers.

 

[Mitsuharu]

outdoors with feminized seeds i've always had good yields, but never big buds.

So what!? Better to have slimmer buds and less or no mold than big dense buds and risking mold...

It's not about size.

the way i see it, is if i only leave a few branches, the plant will put all of it's energy into those growing them thick and strong, and this would also result in bigger denser buds since there isn't so many branches that the plant has to feed and support.

I don't think that it's that easy, you also need emough light, the right strain etc. But you can try it and report here.

 

[lilnug420]

So what!? Better to have slimmer buds and less or no mold than big dense buds and risking mold...

It's not about size.


I don't think that it's that easy, you also need emough light, the right strain etc. But you can try it and report here.

well thing is, by having fewer branches and leaves etc, the buds would also be stronger, since a lot of the buds are hidden below all the branches and foliage and don't reach full potency...

by having fewer they'd have a chance to get more sun and thus becoming more potent

also i see a lot of people cutting fan leaves during flower (especially ones that might not look 100% healthy, i've always avoided doing so as fan leaves contain nutrients that the plant can use during flower. but i'm starting to think it might be the right thing to do because it would allow the sun to shine more on the buds?

 

[Ca++]

I have two mainstays outdoors. The big photogenic one, who's main head I chuck away, avoiding the guaranteed disappointment of opening it up. Then the many smaller buds plant, who brings it home every year.

Main heads are said to regulate those below it. As the plant wants to get above it's competitors. Thus it will put most effort into the main head. Perhaps if you can remove others, then it would be more dominant. Not entire branches though, or you are removing other buds, but also the factories supply them. So the net result is just a lost branch.
I imagine if you take branches below the main head, but leave the leaves on the main trunk, the buds at these points will do ok in the light. They might group up if the nodes are close together. It would really be just for the sakes of it though.

Some are claiming now that pinching does nothing for yield. So pulling off whole branches surely lowers it.

 

[therevverend]

It really depends on strain. Some strains respond well to that kind of thing, improves yield and improves resistance to pests and mold, and others you're shooting yourself in the foot. Removing branches and sun leaves creates wounds on the plant that can become infected with mold. It's not the buds that produce buds, it's the leaves, so removing leaves can harm your yield if you don't do it carefully.

I'd recommend doing some experimenting, not radically pruning but doing some careful leaf and branch removal. Taking pictures rather than going by memory so you can see the results over time. If you don't have evidence and take notes your own biases will influence your judgement. Have a plan going in, whenever I experiment on my plants I like to have a reason for what I'm doing. A method and an idea of the result I'm trying to achieve.

Growing big colas has much more to do with genetics and your growing conditions than any other factor. Pruning or pinching isn't going to drastically increase yield. When I select plants for keepers and for breeding I look for strains that have an open structure that allows light to penetrate deep into the branches. I want 'candelabra' shaped branching where there's decent sized buds from the tip all the way down.

A lot of strains have structures like you're describing, where the branches keep segmenting down into more branches creating a far too bushy structure. Pruning can help reduce the number of branches but these strains tend to be naturally 'tip bearing', even with adequate light penetration they naturally want to produce smaller colas at the ends of the branches. Clones can be more prone to excessive branching than seedlings but that's a generalization.

A large vigorous plant will always produce bigger colas than a smaller plant that isn't as well fed. It sounds obvious but a lot of people are constrained by space and size. If a plant can't grow up it's going to grow out. I almost never pinch or prune. My strategy is to tie plants back towards the north. This tricks the plant so it doesn't put all it's energy into the growing tip. Instead it gets spread between the branches because the lowest limb is almost as high off the ground as the top. I end up with a couple dozen large top colas instead of just one.

 

[lilnug420]

It really depends on strain. Some strains respond well to that kind of thing, improves yield and improves resistance to pests and mold, and others you're shooting yourself in the foot. Removing branches and sun leaves creates wounds on the plant that can become infected with mold. It's not the buds that produce buds, it's the leaves, so removing leaves can harm your yield if you don't do it carefully.

I'd recommend doing some experimenting, not radically pruning but doing some careful leaf and branch removal. Taking pictures rather than going by memory so you can see the results over time. If you don't have evidence and take notes your own biases will influence your judgement. Have a plan going in, whenever I experiment on my plants I like to have a reason for what I'm doing. A method and an idea of the result I'm trying to achieve.

Growing big colas has much more to do with genetics and your growing conditions than any other factor. Pruning or pinching isn't going to drastically increase yield. When I select plants for keepers and for breeding I look for strains that have an open structure that allows light to penetrate deep into the branches. I want 'candelabra' shaped branching where there's decent sized buds from the tip all the way down.

A lot of strains have structures like you're describing, where the branches keep segmenting down into more branches creating a far too bushy structure. Pruning can help reduce the number of branches but these strains tend to be naturally 'tip bearing', even with adequate light penetration they naturally want to produce smaller colas at the ends of the branches. Clones can be more prone to excessive branching than seedlings but that's a generalization.

A large vigorous plant will always produce bigger colas than a smaller plant that isn't as well fed. It sounds obvious but a lot of people are constrained by space and size. If a plant can't grow up it's going to grow out. I almost never pinch or prune. My strategy is to tie plants back towards the north. This tricks the plant so it doesn't put all it's energy into the growing tip. Instead it gets spread between the branches because the lowest limb is almost as high off the ground as the top. I end up with a couple dozen large top colas instead of just one.

when it comes to seeds, i've always gotten mine from royal queen seeds, are their seeds high quality? or is there better stuff out there? i've always had good success with them

 

[therevverend]

I don't think I've ever grown RQS gear, haven't heard anything bad about them and their stuff looks good. Structure is a separate issue from potency, some of the most wonderful strains I've grown had structures I didn't like. One issue that may or may not apply to RQS is that when you're growing and breeding with indoor strains you're selecting for different criteria than for outdoor strains. Just skimming their catalog it seems like they have a mix of what I'd consider indoor and outdoor strains.

In the past when European seed companies were primarily based out of Amsterdam a lot of the better strains had been bred indoors for several generations and didn't bulk up outdoors. They'd also be prone to issues like mold and mildew outdoors because they didn't need resistance indoors. This has changed over the last 20 years as Euro breeding has shifted to Spain and the American seed breeders have caught up. It's still something to think about when choosing seeds.

Personally I'll try any strain regardless of whether I'd consider it indoor or outdoor, as long as it finishes by Oct 20th because that's the absolute latest I can harvest flower that hasn't succumbed to mold. And I prefer to harvest sooner. If a strain has an effect I like it can always be hybridized with something that has a better structure. This is the benefit of making your own seeds through selective breeding.

I didn't mention this before but there are benefits to smaller nugs vs huge outdoor nugs. The biggest one being that larger nugs are much more prone to mold. If you grow somewhere that has humidity over 60-70% in October you don't want big colas. Once they get saturated by water it takes a couple days of warm sunny weather to dry them out giving botrytis time to gain a foothold. I prefer strains with lots of medium sized buds on an open structure allowing light to penetrate down each branch. Here's an example of what I'm talking about, my Goji OG from last year. It had excellent mold resistance resulting in minimal losses. Decent sized colas from top to bottom. Didn't have to do any pruning or leafing besides leaning the plant slightly back towards the north to allow deeper light penetration.



View media item 18705327
Goji OG is a strain bred by Bodhi, one of his more popular ones. I don't think it's released in it's original form but it's hybrids are still going around. I like Bodhi because his strains tend to do well outdoors. They don't all have perfect structures, he's a busy breeder who probably has hundreds of strains by now, but they tend to be sturdy and grow to a large but manageable size. Not huge colas but lots of medium sized ones.

 

[lilnug420]

I don't think I've ever grown RQS gear, haven't heard anything bad about them and their stuff looks good. Structure is a separate issue from potency, some of the most wonderful strains I've grown had structures I didn't like. One issue that may or may not apply to RQS is that when you're growing and breeding with indoor strains you're selecting for different criteria than for outdoor strains. Just skimming their catalog it seems like they have a mix of what I'd consider indoor and outdoor strains.

In the past when European seed companies were primarily based out of Amsterdam a lot of the better strains had been bred indoors for several generations and didn't bulk up outdoors. They'd also be prone to issues like mold and mildew outdoors because they didn't need resistance indoors. This has changed over the last 20 years as Euro breeding has shifted to Spain and the American seed breeders have caught up. It's still something to think about when choosing seeds.

Personally I'll try any strain regardless of whether I'd consider it indoor or outdoor, as long as it finishes by Oct 20th because that's the absolute latest I can harvest flower that hasn't succumbed to mold. And I prefer to harvest sooner. If a strain has an effect I like it can always be hybridized with something that has a better structure. This is the benefit of making your own seeds through selective breeding.

I didn't mention this before but there are benefits to smaller nugs vs huge outdoor nugs. The biggest one being that larger nugs are much more prone to mold. If you grow somewhere that has humidity over 60-70% in October you don't want big colas. Once they get saturated by water it takes a couple days of warm sunny weather to dry them out giving botrytis time to gain a foothold. I prefer strains with lots of medium sized buds on an open structure allowing light to penetrate down each branch. Here's an example of what I'm talking about, my Goji OG from last year. It had excellent mold resistance resulting in minimal losses. Decent sized colas from top to bottom. Didn't have to do any pruning or leafing besides leaning the plant slightly back towards the north to allow deeper light penetration.



View media item 18705327
Goji OG is a strain bred by Bodhi, one of his more popular ones. I don't think it's released in it's original form but it's hybrids are still going around. I like Bodhi because his strains tend to do well outdoors. They don't all have perfect structures, he's a busy breeder who probably has hundreds of strains by now, but they tend to be sturdy and grow to a large but manageable size. Not huge colas but lots of medium sized ones.

is 130 grams of dry bud from a 7gal pot good for outdoors?

 

[therevverend]

is 130 grams of dry bud from a 7gal pot good for outdoors?

Yes and no. There's so many factors growing outdoors. What latitude are you at? How many hours sunlight? What type of nutrients are you using? How's the quality? How dense are the nugs? Organic or synthetic? How much space did it have? What was the weather like? How much did you lose to botrytis and powdery mildew? How early did you start? Growing a lb a plant isn't easy, that's a lot of ganja. You don't realize how much it is until you do it.

To me a QP per plant per 5-10 gal container outdoors is a solid place to start from. You could certainly do better by getting your light, nutrients, strain, and technique dialed in. The best way to get more is to use bigger containers or plant directly into the ground. When I grew in containers 130 grams was close to my average, as far north as I am. Once I started growing directly in the ground yield increased quite a bit.

Growing outdoors is about timing. The seasons roll along like clockwork, learning the right time to start your seeds, plant out, and harvest for your latitude and climate is going to help you yield more. Outdoors I never want my plants to be rootbound during the Veg season. April, May, June, July, I like to be constantly increasing root space. Once they start flowering and the need for nitrogen is less critical I don't worry about it as much.

 

[lilnug420]

Yes and no. There's so many factors growing outdoors. What latitude are you at? How many hours sunlight? What type of nutrients are you using? How's the quality? How dense are the nugs? Organic or synthetic? How much space did it have? What was the weather like? How much did you lose to botrytis and powdery mildew? How early did you start? Growing a lb a plant isn't easy, that's a lot of ganja. You don't realize how much it is until you do it.

To me a QP per plant per 5-10 gal container outdoors is a solid place to start from. You could certainly do better by getting your light, nutrients, strain, and technique dialed in. The best way to get more is to use bigger containers or plant directly into the ground. When I grew in containers 130 grams was close to my average, as far north as I am. Once I started growing directly in the ground yield increased quite a bit.

Growing outdoors is about timing. The seasons roll along like clockwork, learning the right time to start your seeds, plant out, and harvest for your latitude and climate is going to help you yield more. Outdoors I never want my plants to be rootbound during the Veg season. April, May, June, July, I like to be constantly increasing root space. Once they start flowering and the need for nitrogen is less critical I don't worry about it as much.

54m above see lvl. sun rise is at 05:35 and it sets at 20:50. they don't get direct sunlight all the time, but they do get at least 6h of direct sunlight i'd say


i'm using mega crop.

quality? quite good, better than most weed i've tried from dealers. the nugs aren't super dense, i'd say normal?

i'm using terra canna professional soil.


how much space? not much in height, i have to keep her under a meter in height, that's why i do a lot of lst.

when it comes to lenght i have plenty of space


weather? well, i'm from north italy, modena to be speficic. it's quite sunny and hot year-around

i did get bud rot one year because it was raining a lot and i wanted to keep them flowering for longer that was around november, last 2 years no budrot


i started around april


oh and i'm using fabric pots

 

[therevverend]

54m above see lvl. sun rise is at 05:35 and it sets at 20:50. they don't get direct sunlight all the time, but they do get at least 6h of direct sunlight i'd say


i'm using mega crop.

quality? quite good, better than most weed i've tried from dealers. the nugs aren't super dense, i'd say normal?

i'm using terra canna professional soil.


how much space? not much in height, i have to keep her under a meter in height, that's why i do a lot of lst.

when it comes to lenght i have plenty of space


weather? well, i'm from north italy, modena to be speficic. it's quite sunny and hot year-around

i did get bud rot one year because it was raining a lot and i wanted to keep them flowering for longer that was around november, last 2 years no budrot


i started around april


oh and i'm using fabric pots

Given your technique and conditions you're doing great. If you 'dial in' you could do substantially better but there's no shame in what you're accomplishing. The most important part is that you're growing nice ganja that's superior to most retail which is what matters most. A lot of people sacrifice quality for quantity; that's a mistake you don't want to make.

The reason you're not growing big buds is because you can't grow tall plants. I've grown colas that are almost twice as tall as your plants. Big plants grow big buds. There's 'bud on a stick' strains that will grow a huge cola on a meter tall plant but it's a 'specialist' type deal. It's very strain and method specific. The best results I've seen were from hydroponic style indoor grows. In the 90s there were 'bud on a stick' type outdoor strains, they're mostly gone now. Because people want bigger plants that yield more.

But even then they were a gimmick. You'd be better off growing a bunch of smaller colas on a bushy plant than growing one bud on a stick. Unless you could grow a lot of bud on a stick, if you could cram 50 of them together, average 4 oz per plant, in a space you could grow 10 normal plants.

You might want to try my suggestion of growing a larger plant but tying it back towards the north. Rather then pruning the tops you tie the top over. Wait until the plant is about a meter and a half tall. Then push it backwards, tie the top 1/3 of the plant to a stake to the north. Keep training it this way, keeping it at the height you want. It might end up more like a meter and a half tall but you'll have a bigger plant that will produce bigger buds.

Mega Crop is one of the better 'nutrients in a bottle' mixes. It's very convenient, you can buy and use one nutrient. It's great for a casual grower. It's not something I'd use because I'm much more intensely into growing. I don't have a life, my garden in general and my ganja in particular is where I derive a great deal of my pleasure. So I'm able to research the best organic nutrients, shop around to find them, shop around to find them at a better price. It takes lots of time and money compared to using a simple pre-formulated mix like Mega Crop.

Of course my quality is excellent because of the time and energy I put into it. I grow big plants, I get big yields, and most of the time I'd rather smoke my home stone than any other ganja in the world. A compromise would be to continue using the Mega Crop in Veg, but find a high powered bloom fertilizer. For instance an organic one consisting of rock phosphate or high phosphate seabird guano and langbeinite. or high potassium kelp or bat guano. Or a chemical fertilizer that's 0-5-5. Doesn't matter as much what the nutrients are, as long as the phosphate and potassium are high and there's almost no N.

 

[St. Phatty]

Sometimes small plants grow big buds.

I was impressed with Fem. Purple Trainwreck.

9 inch long buds on 2 foot tall plant, indoors.

 

[nono_fr]

there is this nice video that explain a little :

Cannabis Super-Cropping: Kyle Kushman's "Chiropractic" Plant Training Method / Green Flower

 

[Ca++]

I don't know of canna terra soil?
There is a canna terra. It's not soil, nor a compost as such.
You can get plants going in it, using water around pH 6.7 but shouldn't really.
Canna Terra is fed all the time. Like hydro. If you start under low light and high pH, you must lower pH as you increase the feed and light. Moving from a perhaps unsustainable compost grow, to a more hydroponic like one. I will hit it with food from day 1, at pH as low as 5.4 (if freshly mixed, as it won't stay low for long from experience) but 5.8 is quite reasonable.

It's said to be composted bark from the Scandinavian logging areas. There is also talk of peat, but canna talk of coco as peat also. I'm not sure it's actually got any in it. Though it's very black and heavy, and will stain fabric. It's certainly had some de-composure time.
The canna feed for it is okay with other products, but notably has no calcium (or magnesium?) in it. This likely differs from mega-crop, which might alter such a weak composts composition, considerably.

 

[Redrum92]

Fewer branches = more light = better bud, generally

 

[lilnug420]

Given your technique and conditions you're doing great. If you 'dial in' you could do substantially better but there's no shame in what you're accomplishing. The most important part is that you're growing nice ganja that's superior to most retail which is what matters most. A lot of people sacrifice quality for quantity; that's a mistake you don't want to make.

The reason you're not growing big buds is because you can't grow tall plants. I've grown colas that are almost twice as tall as your plants. Big plants grow big buds. There's 'bud on a stick' strains that will grow a huge cola on a meter tall plant but it's a 'specialist' type deal. It's very strain and method specific. The best results I've seen were from hydroponic style indoor grows. In the 90s there were 'bud on a stick' type outdoor strains, they're mostly gone now. Because people want bigger plants that yield more.

But even then they were a gimmick. You'd be better off growing a bunch of smaller colas on a bushy plant than growing one bud on a stick. Unless you could grow a lot of bud on a stick, if you could cram 50 of them together, average 4 oz per plant, in a space you could grow 10 normal plants.

You might want to try my suggestion of growing a larger plant but tying it back towards the north. Rather then pruning the tops you tie the top over. Wait until the plant is about a meter and a half tall. Then push it backwards, tie the top 1/3 of the plant to a stake to the north. Keep training it this way, keeping it at the height you want. It might end up more like a meter and a half tall but you'll have a bigger plant that will produce bigger buds.

Mega Crop is one of the better 'nutrients in a bottle' mixes. It's very convenient, you can buy and use one nutrient. It's great for a casual grower. It's not something I'd use because I'm much more intensely into growing. I don't have a life, my garden in general and my ganja in particular is where I derive a great deal of my pleasure. So I'm able to research the best organic nutrients, shop around to find them, shop around to find them at a better price. It takes lots of time and money compared to using a simple pre-formulated mix like Mega Crop.

Of course my quality is excellent because of the time and energy I put into it. I grow big plants, I get big yields, and most of the time I'd rather smoke my home stone than any other ganja in the world. A compromise would be to continue using the Mega Crop in Veg, but find a high powered bloom fertilizer. For instance an organic one consisting of rock phosphate or high phosphate seabird guano and langbeinite. or high potassium kelp or bat guano. Or a chemical fertilizer that's 0-5-5. Doesn't matter as much what the nutrients are, as long as the phosphate and potassium are high and there's almost no N.

would something like Bud Explosion (from megacrop) do the trick?

 

[William76]

It's not what nutes u use,it depends on strain/phenotype,but I will say ur better concentrating on dialing things in,then the bigger buds will come,but its not always the bigger buds that are best(not to mention more chance of mould),alot of the better strains only make medium to small size buds(pearl pheno etc).I'd concentrate on quality.hopefuly ull get it sorted.76

 

[St. Phatty]

With prices where they are ... if you're selling for resale, I can't imagine spending time on any bud that weighs less than about an 1/8 oz, 3.5 grams.

But personally, I don't have a lot of time to spend lollipopping.

Also the popcorn buds are just as good for making seeds as the big buds.

 

[Ca++]

Our plants need to grow buds. Their survival depends on it. They have a preference towards that one big one at the top, where the goal of catching pollen is highest. They want it higher than the plants around it. They know if they can stretch out, or need to stretch up, using clues around them. Based on presumptions that could be seen as genetic memory. In any case, they want to make the most bud possible. In these natural locations, we are unlikely to help the plant make more bud, by chopping bits off. It already uses it's resources wisely. All we might really do is remove what the plant values, but we don't. All them little bits that could catch pollen still, but are not worth trimming. However, in weight terms, and as such energy usage, these bits amount to very little. There is a stronger case for pulling lower branches that surrounding vegetation is interfering with. For me, this is grasses that grow quickly between maintenance visits. They surround the lower branches (if left on) putting them in a high humidity and low light position. Where air movement is reduced. I take these branches off, to ensure a breeze across my plots, at ground level. We know this is useful, but more immediately, I see less mold problems. The kind of thing that can ring a plant, and take it down. Or appear at the nodes, so we know it's climbing within the plant. Perhaps on the surface to.


Indoors the plant sometimes gets circumstances it not programmed to adapt to. Something like SOG is a recognised approach, that doesn't exist without trimming big branches. It's literally keeping the main head, and chopping off the rest. In order to cram the plants in more. That bomb shelter grow under the rock in the garden, was a good example of a crop that only works with branch removal.


Still, I have a genetic memory myself, that says nipping makes more branches, that makes more bud. However, not more cannabinoids. More bud, but not of the same quality. The roots being the limiting factor. This is from books of old though. Now we seem to be looking at the root size and capabilities, and saying this is why nipping won't put more on a single plant. I'm still open to the idea..

Somewhere in the outdoor bit, we should consider the nest branch to chop, is the main head. Though moving it might be a better idea. Anything to stop having a single top bud, that gets so big it rots.

 

[dirty-joe]

Like the revverend I do not like to remove the top, (I have when necessary though, usually with bad results) I also probably would not be removing too many main branches, maybe the bottom two on some seed plants.
I do however remove inner, and lower bud sites / secondary branches, that have little chance of getting any amount of light, and end up being less than one gram, and not worth pruning, and no doubt do 'take away' at least some from the better bigger buds.

Here an example from 2020, they are about 5 feet tall each in 5 gallons of dirt, and averaged a half pound each.

Note the 'openess' of the lower part, especially the one in the center.

Here is another view of the one on the right after most of the leaves are removed ready for harvest. This one was topped after ten sets of branches, so it was basically 20 chunks for over 200 grams, and was so easy to prune. I do not like 'popcorn' and consider it useless. There was no mold in this strain. This strain BTW was hasha, and was not really supposed to get that big. Good compost, and rain water.

And one from last year, a green crack at 9 feet tall there would be many useless inner lower branches on plants this size, so yes I remove many of them.