Curved Droopy leaves, stunted growh

[NoMore]

Hi guys, I'm having problems with coco that i never had , almost a month that tey're showing what seems to me overwatering symptoms, but I'm not sure and I may use a little help
All the plants (4 melongum dr.underground- 1 pre98 bubba PCG) show same signs, pale color, purple tips, extreme curling-hooking leaves, extreme slow growt or no growth at all...they seems to be getting less pale in the last days and i see some new growth but very slow, but leaves are still almost round shape..they all look like this now, till a week ago color was eaven more pale




Its full coco, the plants were absolutely healty the first 4 weeks in 1 liter small pots, transplanted them in 3 liters and moved to a new cabinet for flowering, it started getting cold ad had some problem keeping stable temps (nothing crazy, 15° celsius min) for a few days,here the problems i mentioned started showing, at first i tought it was ovarwatering, so I tried giving less and eaven getting the coco almost dry, but nothing changed so I'm not sure about that...I've flushed with tap and i'm giving less nutes (my tap comes very hard, they were on a light feeding anyway).. I've raised the temperature in the room and added an heat mat under the pots...they seems to be getting better now but slowly and i should have switched a mont ago....
Didn't find the problem but if they get better now it probably means the flush helped, dont think it was overwatering, I watered coco way more than in this case...I wrote this anyway because I'm having the same problem with new sprouts....they seem to be drowning but the coco is just moist, not wet or soggy at all, and they're starting getting pale too...





Sorry for the lacking english, peace

 

[NoMore]

Forgot to mention that after the drying process of the coco I transplanted them from the 3 liter to 6 liters bit it didn't help for the curving leaves, no root rot or weird smell, not the healthyest roots but a good system established.
Temps are stable around 18° - 24°, but a door might be left oper for a bit so it could drop once in a while, but i dealt with this in the past and never had this much problems so not sue about temps stess either.
I haven't seen any parasite beside the fungus gnats wich I always had (I keep the population small with sticky traps and G3 filters on the cabinet intakes), and lots of springtails wich should be benefical

 

[ridoo]

do you check Ph ?

 

[brickweeder]

when you transplanted from 1 to 3L pots, did you first flush the new coco you added? If so, what were the EC and pH of the water before the flush, and what were the runoff EC and pH from the new coco after the flush?

As ridoo indicated, could be pH issues. Those plants also look like they might be suffering from too much salts in the media.

When you flushed them after transplanting to the 3L, what were the EC and pH of the water before the flush and what were the EC and pH of the subsequent runoff from the potted plants?

 

[SwabianExtracts]

Also with looking at your small seedlings I would say PH issue let's say a bigger one sadly.
Check your PH Bro also do what brickweeder said and check the run off!!

 

[NoMore]

Thanks for the replies guys

I do check ph, I feed at 5.8 - 6 (check with the liquid test and it always worked fine fo me ) but due to lack of time and laziness i did not test the runoff, my bad...and the problem is probably related to this
The coco is from canna bricks, I did not buffer it, just flushed it under tap water for a bit (wich comes at 0.8 μS), then watered with only tap and rhizotonic
The water is pretty hard so the first weeks i mix it with some RO and nutes, (canna coco a-b, rhizo and cannazym only), I was feeding once a day at 0.9 μS at the time of the transplant now 0.8 once a day but less water and as i said some of them seems to be looking better, but the way the leaves curve is not...round and curved on themselves
Big chance this is some salt build up caused by me, lack of attention and I got really confused by the symptoms of the leaves so letting the coco dry that much probably made it worst
I'll flush them again and for the seedlings, l'll flush them now since they're getting yellow allready, I was gonna let the coco dry a little more but I think there is no time

 

[Mr. J]

Looks to me like they're starving. What are your temperatures? They also look a bit cold to me. I'd feed them more for sure though.

 

[NoMore]

Looks to me like they're starving. What are your temperatures? They also look a bit cold to me. I'd feed them more for sure though.

Don't tihink they need more food, it would not explain why the seedlings are doing the same thing, plus 0.9-1 μS it's not light for that size plants, from the tranplant they looked like they stopped assimilating nutes at all
Temps are a bit lower than they should be, but not that much, 23-24° (celsius) during lights on 18-19° lights off, but i have had problems with it the first 2-3 days after the transplant reaching a min of 12° wich is bad (4 weeks ago more or less)

EDIT: Runoff EC after watering at 0.9μS, 5.8 ph was 0.5 μS , ph slightly more acidic around 4.8-5...so salts should not be the problem....I'm not getting it

 

[ridoo]

okay about Ph, after flushing and watering at good Ph and nuts level they should looks better quickly

6L pots store lots of water, if you flush maybe gives light food, and make something like 30% runoff

do you know about your relative humidity in % ? your temps looks good but temps and rh are very connected in closets...

the rh is not the problem cause but if well adjusted it can help them to recover faster

 

[Mr.Whit3]

Don't tihink they need more food, it would not explain why the seedlings are doing the same thing, plus 0.9-1 μS it's not light for that size plants, from the tranplant they looked like they stopped assimilating nutes at all
Temps are a bit lower than they should be, but not that much, 23-24° (celsius) during lights on 18-19° lights off, but i have had problems with it the first 2-3 days after the transplant reaching a min of 12° wich is bad (4 weeks ago more or less)

EDIT: Runoff EC after watering at 0.9μS, 5.8 ph was 0.5 μS , ph slightly more acidic around 4.8-5...so salts should not be the problem....I'm not getting it

If runoff is lower than inflow you can raise the inflow, it meas ladys are hungry and are removing all the salts from water.
And dont look at ph runoff it dont means a lot.
my2c

 

[NoMore]

If runoff is lower than inflow you can raise the inflow, it meas ladys are hungry and are removing all the salts from water.
And dont look at ph runoff it dont means a lot.
my2c

That's how I was going until the leaves started curving down as they were drowning, watering every day with a small amount of runoff, then I started giving less but I see no difference...
RH is always on the high-side, i live in an humid place, 68-75% in these days
Maybe bad coco ? too much "coco peat" ? I did do a poor job in rinsing the bricks...
Anyway I have some new seedlings sprouting looking ok for now, I'm gonna put them in some properly clean and buffered coco and see if is that or some other environmental thing since this is confusing me so mutch ( don't think I mentioned this is the first run in a new closet )

 

[whitebox]

hi NoMore, i'm a bit late but you told us it is a new grow-cab , do you mean it's a grow tent or a cupboard or a small room?
i'm not an expert but this thing may look like a kind of gassing due to some phtalates and other substances contained in many plastic and some different materials too.
i had a grow tent made out of a nasty plastic containing this shit 8 years ago and the plants looked exactly the same as yours.
i've read here that also some kind of plastic tubing used in hydro set up may diffuse slowly the poison into re-circulating water and causes same deseases apparently.
i wish you fixed that already ,so my post then should be useless.
let us know if true,
have a nice day NM.
cheers.
WB.

 

[NoMore]

hi NoMore, i'm a bit late but you told us it is a new grow-cab , do you mean it's a grow tent or a cupboard or a small room?
i'm not an expert but this thing may look like a kind of gassing due to some phtalates and other substances contained in many plastic and some different materials too.
i had a grow tent made out of a nasty plastic containing this shit 8 years ago and the plants looked exactly the same as yours.
i've read here that also some kind of plastic tubing used in hydro set up may diffuse slowly the poison into re-circulating water and causes same deseases apparently.
i wish you fixed that already ,so my post then should be useless.
let us know if true,
have a nice day NM.
cheers.
WB.

Hi man thanks for the reply, i've thought about that, it's a wooden closet painted on the inside with water based woodstain, no pvc or plastic objects beside fans and tubing used previously and an HLG quantum board, i'm not sure this is the case.
I havent solved yet, only one of the plants has recovered,it's definitely overwatering now having the same problem with the new seedlings,the medium dries very slowly maybe cause of the slightly colder temps,it's a new one to me i've always kept the coco as moist as possible never having problems

 

[whitebox]

Hi man thanks for the reply, i've thought about that, it's a wooden closet painted on the inside with water based woodstain, no pvc or plastic objects beside fans and tubing used previously and an HLG quantum board, i'm not sure this is the case.
I havent solved yet, only one of the plants has recovered,it's definitely overwatering now having the same problem with the new seedlings,the medium dries very slowly maybe cause of the slightly colder temps,it's a new one to me i've always kept the coco as moist as possible never having problems

hi NM, you're welcome Man, i just try to help with my little experience.
sorry to ear that about plants...
are you sure this coco is well rinsed and clean?
have a nice day NM.
cheers.

 

[Absolem]

Looks to me like they're starving. What are your temperatures? They also look a bit cold to me. I'd feed them more for sure though.

Agreed. The plants are starving and over watered. The coco medium has been stripped of all the food for the plants.

The cool thing about coco is that it holds nutrients. When you fill the cation exchange in coco it allows the plants to feed off the nutrients in the coco and provides a buffer like soil. When the cation exchange in coco is not filled the plants starve.

 

[NoMore]

hi NM, you're welcome Man, i just try to help with my little experience.
sorry to ear that about plants...
are you sure this coco is well rinsed and clean?
have a nice day NM.
cheers.

the coco is fine, they were vegging fine untill i transplanted them, then started drooping

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Agreed. The plants are starving and over watered. The coco medium has been stripped of all the food for the plants.

The cool thing about coco is that it holds nutrients. When you fill the cation exchange in coco it allows the plants to feed off the nutrients in the coco and provides a buffer like soil. When the cation exchange in coco is not filled the plants starve. [/FONT]

Hi man, I've been feeding them at regular strenght, the plants were fine untill a certain point,maybe I didn't let them recover in time when the problem started, probably the colder temps made it much worse, but there is something I'm not getting cause I'm having the same problem with the new ones (coco and perlite this time),the roots seems to be oversensitive to water, drowning simptoms in half dry coco

 

[Absolem]

the coco is fine, they were vegging fine untill i transplanted them, then started drooping





Hi man, I've been feeding them at regular strenght, the plants were fine untill a certain point,maybe I didn't let them recover in time when the problem started, probably the colder temps made it much worse, but there is something I'm not getting cause I'm having the same problem with the new ones (coco and perlite this time),the roots seems to be oversensitive to water, drowning simptoms in half dry coco

In coco it usually takes 2 weeks for symptoms to show up. The coco medium can counter balance a bad or week feed for only so long. They need to be hit full strength.

Coco holds on to K, Ca, and Mg. Think of coco as a magnet and K, Ca, and Mg as magnets. These magnets (K,Ca,Mg) needs to bond to the coco before the plant can fully eat. The plant sends out positive ions through the roots and those ions release Ca, K, and Mg from the coco when the plant wants food. If the cation exchange in coco isn't filled with Ca, Mg, and K the plant roots send out ions but won't get feed because the coco is lacking the food the plant needs.

So the plant continues trying to get food but is only able to uptake water with no plant nutrition in it.

Hit them things full strength 2 straight days. They will stay droopy but the plants will be eating. Give em three days then hit em again.

Just so you don't think I'm talking shit here's a few pics from my grow.

 

[f-e]

There are no signs of over watering. Over watering causes heavy leaves that loose the battle with gravity. What you have are curling leaves.

They are starving. Come up to 1.3 and get 50% run-off and fertigate again the next day, even if you don't think they are ready. Coco can't get too wet unless you stand them in water.

 

[NoMore]

...Hit them things full strength 2 straight days. They will stay droopy but the plants will be eating. Give em three days then hit em again....

Thanks fo the advices, I wasn't doubting you, sorry, I'm probably focusing on the wrong thing, I m gonna follow your suggestions

Nice setup man those plants looks beautiful

There are no signs of over watering. Over watering causes heavy leaves that loose the battle with gravity. What you have are curling leaves.

They are starving. Come up to 1.3 and get 50% run-off and fertigate again the next day, even if you don't think they are ready. Coco can't get too wet unless you stand them in water.

Yeah man, probably droopy isn't eaven the correct term, the leaves are curved almost in a round shape, curly and sturdy...I've never had overwatering problems in coco, I've been always handwatering at least once a day , didn't eaven believe i could, but there are different opinion on this and my knowledge about coco is still limited
Thanks for the suggestions

 

[BubbaBear]

I dont mean to further confuse things but your totally over watering. I've had this happen to me a few times when it gets cold. Despite popular belief coco can definitely be over watered. The remedy is to let your plants dry out like more than youd think youd want to just to to the point before they start to wilt and the leaves will start to uncurl. Monitor them closely so they dont wilt and when you water them again dont fully saturate the coco so it happens again give them a light watering and let them dry out again at least one more time then they should be back on track, return to regular watering but dont over due it. Dry backs are a good thing dont always keep your coco saturated especially when it gets cold is a great time to skip a watering and let them dry out.